Aviation Continuation Pay (ACP - The Bonus)

[Guest]

Answer given in the MAF Facebook page said and with the attached AF guidance (memo from Grosso on AF flight pay tables) that DFAS tables are the maximum any service can shell out for flight pay. However, each service can have their own tables with years and amounts that do not have to match the DFAS tables, but must be less than what the DFAS max is.

e..g. DFAS says 10 years+ = $1000

AF says 12 years+ = $ 1000 (I.e. 10 years + will get you $700)

BL: AF had an opportunity to pay more, but chose to dole out pennies to year groups that will have significant impact on AF retention numbers. The memo posted on Facebook matched the tables contained in the story linked below

https://www.af.mil/News/Article-Display/Article/1290397/air-force-announces-initiatives-to-lessen-pilot-shortage/

add:

Grosso’s memo was dated 29 Aug 2017.

Edited January 12, 2018 by Guest

[nsplayr]

Wow, what a crock of shit. This one is on Big Blue 100%. Congress authorized more and they choose not to pay it.

And what’s worse is the authorized changes would benefit the exact demographic the AF desperately needs to retain (aviators at ~10 years of aviation service), i.e. the guys contemplating seriously whether or not to punch at the end of their commitment.

I’m in it to win it at this point (in the Guard), but man a $300 per month raise (from 700 up to 1K for moving up a tier) starting in Feb would have been sweet.

The max tier being at 12 (formerly 14) years rather than 10 never made any damn sense to me.

Edited January 12, 2018 by nsplayr

[Homestar]

5 hours ago, mcbush said:

Personally, I put in a percentage of both my base pay and flight pay in order to get as close as possible to maxing it out. Since it's obviously a percentage-based system rather than one that lets you choose an exact dollar amount, I've usually found that going with the closest whole number percentage of my base pay still leaves me a couple hundred dollars under the mark. 

Why not just choose the next whole number percentage higher (21% vs 20%)? In December if your election takes you over the limit they only withhold the amount to take you exactly to the limit. Buy the kids’ Christmas presents with the bigger paycheck that month. 

[Homestar]

28 minutes ago, nsplayr said:

Wow, what a crock of shit. This one is on Big Blue 100%. Congress authorized more and they choose not to pay it.

And what’s worse is the authorized changes would benefit the exact demographic the AF desperately needs to retain (aviators at ~10 years of aviation service), i.e. the guys contemplating seriously whether or not to punch at the end of their commitment.

I’m in it to win it at this point (in the Guard), but man a $300 per month raise (from 700 up to 1K for moving up a tier) starting in Feb would have been sweet.

The max tier being at 12 (formerly 14) years rather than 10 never made any damn sense to me.

Somehow this actually makes complete sense that the AF would do this. Ugh. 

[Hermey]

It’s pretty infuriating the AF didn’t/hasn’t maxed out allowable monthly flight pay. I guess it makes sense when the sentiment I’ve seen is that the AF has conceded there is no way they can keep up with Major airline compensation and they don’t like the idea of trying. Maxing flight pay rates wouldn’t make our pay much closer to the majors anyways:

https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/major/110196-2017-w2-earnings-18.html#post2494970

The optimist in me is hoping the DFAS

flight pay table increase is just preceding an AF decision to also raise Flight pay. Small chance I’m sure...but they could always raise the rates tomorrow and say that was the plan all along to save face!!!

 

[MooseAg03]

It’s just another data point of the Air Force showing us what we are truly worth.

[ItnStln]

IMHO every officer O3+ should be maxing his/her Roth TSP ($18,500 per year) as well as their own Roth IRA ($5,500) and their spouse's Roth IRA ($5,500) if married as a baseline for savings. $29,500 total that can grow tax free. In some situations traditional makes more sense than ROTH so YMMV slightly.
And if you can swing that sooner more power to ya.

Since when are Roth IRA tax free? My read of everything, including my own Roth IRA, is that you don't get a tax deduction like youndonwitj a Traditional IRA but you don't pay taxes on it when you withdraw.

[nsplayr]

That’s what I mean, tax-free growth. You are correct with Roth that you pay taxes on contributions now  

I’d much rather pay taxes on the principal right now when I make the contribution and then on the back end withdraw the principal as well as the gains tax-free.

This is my favorite article discussing the relative advantages/disadvantages of Roth vs Traditional: https://blog.wealthfront.com/roth-401k-vs-traditional-401k/

YMMV and if you are in a very high tax bracket now traditional has more advantages, but as the article states, the name of the game if you do traditional is, “Do I have the discipline and desire to save an additional sum to cover my future tax bill?”

One opinion among many, but one I find convincing and that led me to choose Roth whenever possible in my current financial situation. 

Back on track: FU big blue for artificially keeping flight pay and bonuses lower than Congress allows. They will reap what they sow here and the retention crisis will get worse. 

Edited January 13, 2018 by nsplayr

[cragspider]

1 hour ago, nsplayr said:

Back on track: FU big blue for artificially keeping flight pay and bonuses lower than Congress allows. They will reap what they sow here and the retention crisis will get worse. 

This is more on point with how out of touch big blue really is. We all saw it when they upped the 6 year pay by a measly $50 pre tax. They should be paying the $1k at 10 so they can try and keep guys in when they are making their decision points on to stay or not. But alas they missed that chance and like you said they will reap their consequences of the poor miss management of this. 

[mcbush]

On 1/12/2018 at 12:26 PM, Homestar said:

Why not just choose the next whole number percentage higher (21% vs 20%)? In December if your election takes you over the limit they only withhold the amount to take you exactly to the limit. Buy the kids’ Christmas presents with the bigger paycheck that month. 

For whatever reason, I was under the impression that any contribution that went over the limit would be refunded in its entirety. Thanks for the tip.

On topic: It sucks that they aren't maximizing the opportunity here, but is it really a strategically incorrect move from the big AF perspective? If they doubled flight pay to two grand a month, is that a big enough move to keep young Majors from bailing in any significant number? I don't think so. If you're going to concede the pay aspect of the equation to the airlines, I guess you might as well save your pennies where you can.

[raimius]

3 hours ago, mcbush said:

On topic: It sucks that they aren't maximizing the opportunity here, but is it really a strategically incorrect move from the big AF perspective? If they doubled flight pay to two grand a month, is that a big enough move to keep young Majors from bailing in any significant number? I don't think so. If you're going to concede the pay aspect of the equation to the airlines, I guess you might as well save your pennies where you can.

Many pilots peg pay in the "acceptable" range.  While it is not going to beat United, it is enough to live comfortably.  Where the AF is screwing up is the other BS and the poor messaging.  The implicit message from multiple angles is "we could make this better for you, but we don't care."

[SurelySerious]

3 hours ago, raimius said:

Many pilots peg pay in the "acceptable" range.  While it is not going to beat United, it is enough to live comfortably.  Where the AF is screwing up is the other BS and the poor messaging.  The implicit message from multiple angles is "we could make this better for you, but we don't care."

[ItnStln]

That’s what I mean, tax-free growth. You are correct with Roth that you pay taxes on contributions now  
I’d much rather pay taxes on the principal right now when I make the contribution and then on the back end withdraw the principal as well as the gains tax-free.
This is my favorite article discussing the relative advantages/disadvantages of Roth vs Traditional: https://blog.wealthfront.com/roth-401k-vs-traditional-401k/
YMMV and if you are in a very high tax bracket now traditional has more advantages, but as the article states, the name of the game if you do traditional is, “Do I have the discipline and desire to save an additional sum to cover my future tax bill?”
One opinion among many, but one I find convincing and that led me to choose Roth whenever possible in my current financial situation. 
Back on track: FU big blue for artificially keeping flight pay and bonuses lower than Congress allows. They will reap what they sow here and the retention crisis will get worse. 

Thanks for the clarification and my apologies for misreading your post!

[Termy]

On 1/12/2018 at 9:13 AM, nsplayr said:

IMHO every officer O3+ should be maxing his/her Roth TSP ($18,500 per year) as well as their own Roth IRA ($5,500) and their spouse's Roth IRA ($5,500) if married as a baseline for savings. $29,500 total that can grow tax free. In some situations traditional makes more sense than ROTH so YMMV slightly.

And if you can swing that sooner more power to ya.

Can't.  I make too much now to fund IRA's.  Not saying that to brag, but it was a cluster F when I hit that threshold a couple years ago.  (O5 with additional income from real estate and dividends)  Betcha Cleared Hot is in same boat.

[Guardian]

Can’t you always fund traditional Ira and tsp? Reguardless of income?

[Termy]

3 minutes ago, Guardian said:

Can’t you always fund traditional Ira and tsp? Reguardless of income?

You are correct.  In fact, I believe you can fund it as a traditional then convert it to Roth.  They call this (focus on 'they') a backdoor Roth.  

But if you are in this area, you can't deduct any of the traditional contributions.

Edited January 16, 2018 by Termy
More information

[di1630]

You are correct.  In fact, I believe you can fund it as a traditional then convert it to Roth.  They call this (focus on 'they') a backdoor Roth.  
But if you are in this area, you can't deduct any of the traditional contributions.

I ran into this issue when I took the 50% up front of the bonus.

Otherwise, not a bad problem to have when you are making that much money.

[akang2006]

My CMS case to adjust to the $1000/mo for 10+ years aviation service is in today. We are trying it as a test case. Currently at $700/mo per the new tables effective Oct 2017. 

[Guardian]

Anyone see the 2017 Guard bonus? Can’t find it.

[akang2006]

12 hours ago, Guardian said:

Anyone see the 2017 Guard bonus? Can’t find it.

It hasn't been posted since FY2016 on myPers or whatever the site that AD and the reserves updated (and ANG should've). I got it via email from another forum user. No FY2018 has been posted yet.

[Guardian]

It hasn't been posted since FY2016 on myPers or whatever the site that AD and the reserves updated (and ANG should've). I got it via email from another forum user. No FY2018 has been posted yet.

So how do I get a copy?

[akang2006]

1 hour ago, Guardian said:

So how do I get a copy?

Your FSF should have the info. It was distributed via email last June or so.

[skosh]

Is anyone actually getting $800 in flight pay this month?  Just checked my LES and I'm still at $700, and so is one of my buddies in the same year group.  It was supposed to go up right?

[jazzdude]

Is anyone actually getting $800 in flight pay this month?  Just checked my LES and I'm still at $700, and so is one of my buddies in the same year group.  It was supposed to go up right?

AF was authorized to give the dfas amounts, but chose not to.

[Guest]

AF was authorized to give the dfas amounts, but chose not to.

Could our leadership be any shittier?