Aviation Continuation Pay (ACP - The Bonus)

[Gazmo]

Yes, many moons ago.  40% for fixed wing pilots.  Which the AF is apparently cool with. 40 is the new 65.

Yeah well, in theory we are producing more new pilots so it's all good...

[SFG]

1 hour ago, Gazmo said:

2 hours ago, K_O said:

Yes, many moons ago.  40% for fixed wing pilots.  Which the AF is apparently cool with. 40 is the new 65.

Yeah well, in theory we are producing more new pilots so it's all good...

AF failed to meet its higher production goals this year and actually produced less than the previous standard rate so... Yep.

I should add that this failure is despite the dedicated efforts of our folks on the line.

Edited October 31, 2019 by K_O

[cragspider]

4 hours ago, K_O said:

Yes, many moons ago.  40% for fixed wing pilots.  Which the AF is apparently cool with. 40 is the new 65.

Let’s not forget that this number is inflated due to the 11U folks taking it at a higher rate then the rest. Plus most of AMC that took it are all in school or staff.  

[Homestar]

The AF needs to produce 1,400 pilots/year and retain 65% until 2034 to emerge from the aircrew crisis.  That according to the ACTF Maj Gen Mack.  UPT fell short of that by like 200 pilots this year.  Probably going to underproduce next year as well.

It does seem that in a way the Air Force is really just waiting for an economic downturn.  Nobody wishes for another 9/11, but another shock like that would fix the aircrew crisis over night.

Also, according to the ACTF, the AF is overmanned on FGOs and undermanned on CGOs.  You may not see it that way in your neck of the woods, but those are the numbers.

[SFG]

6 minutes ago, Homestar said:

The AF needs to produce 1,400 pilots/year and retain 65% until 2034 to emerge from the aircrew crisis.  That according to the ACTF Maj Gen Mack.  UPT fell short of that by like 200 pilots this year.  Probably going to underproduce next year as well.

It does seem that in a way the Air Force is really just waiting for an economic downturn.  Nobody wishes for another 9/11, but another shock like that would fix the aircrew crisis over night.

Also, according to the ACTF, the AF is overmanned on FGOs and undermanned on CGOs.  You may not see it that way in your neck of the woods, but those are the numbers.

I think it was said that 1400 to produce out, 1200 something for steady state, and we did 1100 or so.

Sad to hear that we are gambling on an economic downturn rather than creating flexible and responsive retention initiatives.

This has been floating around the squadrons:

 

Edited October 31, 2019 by K_O

[Homestar]

49 minutes ago, K_O said:

Sad to hear that we are gambling on an economic downturn rather than creating flexible and responsive retention initiatives.

My biggest complaint with the ACTF is the auto-reponse of "we can't compete with the airlines" when you mention pay.  Nobody is asking that you compete with the airlines.  Just pay more than what you are.  Military members are generally hesitant, I believe, to say that pay is a causal factor in leaving because they don't want to appear un-patriotic.

You join out of Pride, you stay because of Quality of Life/Job Satisfaction, and Compensation.  You cannot disregard the Compensation aspect.  The Air Force continues to cop out when they say that they simply can't compete with the airlines.

I don't mind the initiatives to produce our way out of the aircrew crisis.  But compensation has to continue to be on the table or people will continue to walk.

[HossHarris]

4 hours ago, K_O said:

I think it was said that 1400 to produce out, 1200 something for steady state, and we did 1100 or so.

Sad to hear that we are gambling on an economic downturn rather than creating flexible and responsive retention initiatives.

This has been floating around the squadrons:

 

If anything, those numbers are a little low ... at least for delta. 

Low for gross pay, about right to 5% high for take home ... 

and I’m not a striver nor hard worker (anyone who knows me will vouch). 

[TreeA10]

I second the low calculation. As a AA wide body FO, that calculation is @5-6K off. 

[cragspider]

Don’t forget the profit sharing and auto 401k contributions as well with those numbers. Big blue will never come close to those. Also they say we are over manned in the FGO’s I’d know how when all the O-4’s are running out the door just about. 

[Orbit]

I've had the opportunity to listen to Kit Darby speak a few times.  He has a wealth of knowledge when it comes to the airlines.

[HossHarris]

Thanks Murray 

[kona4breakfast]

Not quite the bonus, but relevant; in case any of you part-timers out there want to waste your time trying to participate in our democracy, there's a link to contact your reps at the top of the page:

https://www.govtrack.us/congress/bills/116/hr2953

H.R. 2953: Aviation Incentive Pay Parity Act

To amend title 37, United States Code, to authorize the Secretary of a military department to pay an officer in a reserve component of a uniformed service aviation incentive pay at the same rate as an officer in the regular component of that uniformed service.

 

[Negatory]

37 minutes ago, kona4breakfast said:

Not quite the bonus, but relevant; in case any of you part-timers out there want to waste your time trying to participate in our democracy, there's a link to contact your reps at the top of the page:

https://www.govtrack.us/congress/bills/116/hr2953

H.R. 2953: Aviation Incentive Pay Parity Act

To amend title 37, United States Code, to authorize the Secretary of a military department to pay an officer in a reserve component of a uniformed service aviation incentive pay at the same rate as an officer in the regular component of that uniformed service.

 

Real question.  Why should a part timer get the same bonus as someone on AD?  Or is this just arguing for rate (pay/day) to be the same?

[LookieRookie]

1 hour ago, brawnie said:

Real question.  Why should a part timer get the same bonus as someone on AD?  Or is this just arguing for rate (pay/day) to be the same?

Because they are locked into a service commitment and no longer are at will and can quit. It makes managing force structure a lot easier when you know people can’t walk.

[Negatory]

1 hour ago, LookieRookie said:

Because they are locked into a service commitment and no longer are at will and can quit. It makes managing force structure a lot easier when you know people can’t walk.

Yeah I can sort of see the argument.  But in my mind it’s a zero sum solution - money all comes from the same proverbial pot in the end.  Would 10k extra for guard/reservists be a better investment for America/the big AF than 10k for active duty pilots?  What does the AF need more? 

With all the new perceived benefits that already exist from being in the guard/reserves, I feel like this would just be more of an incentive to leave active duty.  I know for me personally this would only make me want to join the guard more.

Unpopular opinion maybe, but we already know that AD can’t compete with stability or homesteading that exists with the guard.  If AD offered better pay, maybe that would entice people to stay.  Make AD bonuses 45-50k.  Currently, the only thing AD beats the guard on is 2BPZ promotions if you are one of the chosen ones.

I say this as someone who is definitely joining the guard for family reasons, regardless of money.

[SFG]

35 minutes ago, brawnie said:

Yeah I can sort of see the argument.  But in my mind it’s a zero sum solution - money all comes from the same proverbial pot in the end.  Would 10k extra for guard/reservists be a better investment for America/the big AF than 10k for active duty pilots?  What does the AF need more? 

With all the new perceived benefits that already exist from being in the guard/reserves, I feel like this would just be more of an incentive to leave active duty.  I know for me personally this would only make me want to join the guard more.

Unpopular opinion maybe, but we already know that AD can’t compete with stability or homesteading that exists with the guard.  If AD offered better pay, maybe that would entice people to stay.  Make AD bonuses 45-50k.  Currently, the only thing AD beats the guard on is 2BPZ promotions if you are one of the chosen ones.

I say this as someone who is definitely joining the guard for family reasons, regardless of money.

BPZ promotions are going away.

[Chida]

The opposite is true. ACIP and bonus should be paid at a monthly/yearly rate for part timers the same as active duty. Both have the exact same requirements to be ready to fly. Also for all the complaints about AD pay, the same goes for drill pay: it’s not enough for the skills brought and already invested.


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[pawnman]

3 hours ago, K_O said:

BPZ promotions are going away.

Source?

[MCO]

18 minutes ago, pawnman said:

Source?

PACAF commander told our base that at an all call last week. Also PACAF staff thinks that’s why the PSDM for Lt Col is 2 months late so far. Sounds like they are trying to switch to the 5 looks in the zone with no BPZ starting now. In another thread it sounded like someone on this board is a lot closer to the source and was confirming this as well. no idea on how this will affect specific year groups.

[pawnman]

1 hour ago, MCO said:

PACAF commander told our base that at an all call last week. Also PACAF staff thinks that’s why the PSDM for Lt Col is 2 months late so far. Sounds like they are trying to switch to the 5 looks in the zone with no BPZ starting now. In another thread it sounded like someone on this board is a lot closer to the source and was confirming this as well. no idea on how this will affect specific year groups.

Weird, because our DS gave us the timelines for this board.  150 day was October 4 and PRFs were due to NAF last week.

Will it just limit the number of APZ looks someone gets, or is the intent that an 06 guy and an 03 guy are treated the same for promotion purposes?

Edited November 23, 2019 by pawnman

[SFG]

28 minutes ago, pawnman said:

Weird, because our DS gave us the timelines for this board.  150 day was October 4 and PRFs were due to NAF last week.

Will it just limit the number of APZ looks someone gets, or is the intent that an 06 guy and an 03 guy are treated the same for promotion purposes?

Sounded like the latter, that is, when the 06 guy hits IPZ and the 03 guy is “3APZ” they’ll be looked at the same (and the 07 guy will not be meeting any board... or something).

[Bigred]

9 hours ago, pawnman said:

Weird, because our DS gave us the timelines for this board.  150 day was October 4 and PRFs were due to NAF last week.

Will it just limit the number of APZ looks someone gets, or is the intent that an 06 guy and an 03 guy are treated the same for promotion purposes?

Our OG exec asked for our info but said no guidance has been given as they are still waiting on the PSDM. They wanted our inputs to be ready when it comes out.

[panchbarnes]

1 hour ago, Bigred said:

Our OG exec asked for our info but said no guidance has been given as they are still waiting on the PSDM. They wanted our inputs to be ready when it comes out.

probably belongs in a different threat but I"m pretty sure the PSDM is out.

[SFG]

In related news, word is we lost ground by another hundred pilots this year.  2100 hundred short now?

If we “leveled off” at all it was just a hard pull to trade airspeed for altitude and now we’re approaching the stall.

But we’ll probably keep spending another 25-100 million $$ per year for the next decade trying a dozen different ways to produce our way out of the problem.

[Homestar]

4 hours ago, K_O said:

trying a dozen different ways to produce our way out of the problem.

Nothing wrong with attempting innovation in the UPT enterprise. We can’t stop calling for QOL and compensation improvements tho.