Aviation Continuation Pay (ACP - The Bonus)

[youdontknowthis]

When was the last time a pilot group wasn’t offered a bonus?


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[ClearedHot]

8 hours ago, Majestik Møøse said:

HAF/A1 devises these policies (with the agreement of all the MAJCOMs and CSAF); AFPC just administers it. Direct your hate in that direction.

The whiplash will continue and it kills me to see these short-sighted decisions.  Two years from now when everyone is running for the doors again they will re-rollout the "We care about you, what can we do to make it better" bullshit.  This falls SQUARELY on the shoulders senior leadership that doesn't have the stones to stand up and tell Congress and others to help now to prevent chaos later.

 

[Homestar]

We need a better union. 

[Hub]

The E-4 application that just dropped is another second order that probably wasn't considered...it carries an 11/12R reclass. Same with the U-2

[Velosprints]

Dumb question, (because those are the only kind of questions I ask these days) but do any of these "agreements" prevent retirements? 

[Bigred]

3 hours ago, Hub said:

The E-4 application that just dropped is another second order that probably wasn't considered...it carries an 11/12R reclass. Same with the U-2

Stupid question perhaps, I’m assuming your referring to those guys that haven’t finished their initial UPT commitment and are considering a reclass? 

[Standby]

Still somewhat unbelievable that there was no mention of 11R in the PSDM. I’m not an 11R so I have no clue as to what their life is really like or how their manning is perceived by those in the trenches...but to not even offer a bonus is a pretty bold move. Whether by design or through some sheer dumb publishing/copy +paste error it sends a very clear message.

“Do you want ants?” 

[Hub]

1 hour ago, Bigred said:

Stupid question perhaps, I’m assuming your referring to those guys that haven’t finished their initial UPT commitment and are considering a reclass? 

It affects "initial eligible" and "contract-expired/non-contracted" since 11Rs are missing from both tiers. Flying a new MWS via the cross-flow/interview programs can change your core AFSC and primary DT functional. For example, you're an 11R that gets picked up by the 89th. You're now considered an 11M and managed by the MAF DT (think IDE, DT vectors, and Sq/CC boards). On the flip side, say you're an 11M that interviews and gets picked up by the E-4/U-2. You are now considered an 11R by core AFSC and managed by the CAF DT. The aviation bonus program uses the core ID to determine who is in what "tier" based on retention goals. Therefore, bonus for 89th pilot...no bonus for U-2/E-4 pilot.

Another consideration in this is UPT. If you're an 11R that becomes a UPT instructor, you'll keep your core AFSC. This means that even though you're outside of an 11R flying community, you're still ineligible for this year's bonus based on the retention of core AFSC.

[FLEA]

3 hours ago, Hub said:

It affects "initial eligible" and "contract-expired/non-contracted" since 11Rs are missing from both tiers. Flying a new MWS via the cross-flow/interview programs can change your core AFSC and primary DT functional. For example, you're an 11R that gets picked up by the 89th. You're now considered an 11M and managed by the MAF DT (think IDE, DT vectors, and Sq/CC boards). On the flip side, say you're an 11M that interviews and gets picked up by the E-4/U-2. You are now considered an 11R by core AFSC and managed by the CAF DT. The aviation bonus program uses the core ID to determine who is in what "tier" based on retention goals. Therefore, bonus for 89th pilot...no bonus for U-2/E-4 pilot.

Another consideration in this is UPT. If you're an 11R that becomes a UPT instructor, you'll keep your core AFSC. This means that even though you're outside of an 11R flying community, you're still ineligible for this year's bonus based on the retention of core AFSC.

It's total dumbassery and it's likely going to cause the 11R community to topple. While on paper they are manned 120%, when you really examine the #'s all of that manning is copilots. The community has been overtasked to support RPAs and UPT and their expereinced dudes don't want to go back, so they get out. This is only going to exasperate that drain from the top end. The $$$ isn't as important as the perceived slap to the face, especially when so many volunteered to retrain as 11M or 11S bit were denied due to manning. 

[Majestik Møøse]

Are EWOs also ineligible for the bonus?

[di1630]

This bonus pretty much says:

“Hey, we know the people taking the bonus were probably going to stay anyhow. Maybe a few took short term bonuses while they built hours and polished up their guard/reserve/airline apps but that’s not what we want. We’ve (USAF) lost the battle for retention. We will reward those who after their 10+ year commitment, sign on to finish a career. We want loyalists, pilots who will do our will guaranteed to be at our whim until they retire. We are not interested in pilots who wish to ‘keep options open’ by failing to commit long term.”

That’s how it reads to me.

If you are unhappy with your options: quit.

I wanted a short term bonus, of course I think I deserve it and the USAF is f-ing me over just like everyone else not getting it. It wasn’t offered. I’ll sport bitch but at the end of the day, if I don’t quit, I’m just bitching because I’m entitled.






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[HuggyU2]

What's the take home pay after taxes on $15,000... $11,500?

Based on working an 8-hour day, that is a a $5.53 per hour raise.

Based on working a 10-hour day, that is a $4.42 per hour raise.  

[Royal]

2 hours ago, HuggyU2 said:

What's the take home pay after taxes on $15,000... $11,500?

Based on working an 8-hour day, that is a a $5.53 per hour raise.

Based on working a 10-hour day, that is a $4.42 per hour raise.  

The math checks.

This should be a reminder to everyone: Have your financial house in order in perpetuity. The people that will come out ahead will be the ones that can take risks and absorb several months without steady income. Delta is set to ramp up operations and have been rumored to be placing deposit on simulator slots across the country and possibly the globe...Vote with your feet if you want to send a strong message.

[SurelySerious]

2 hours ago, HuggyU2 said:

What's the take home pay after taxes on $15,000... $11,500?

Based on working an 8-hour day, that is a a $5.53 per hour raise.

Based on working a 10-hour day, that is a $4.42 per hour raise.  

Just reminds me why I ran the per-hour math once as a Capt and have consciously not thought about it from that perspective since. 

[ToHoldShort]

Can’t spend an extra 20k on a retention bonus but we can hire private company’s for pilot training... makes sense

https://www.military.com/daily-news/2021/03/08/air-force-wants-outsource-some-of-its-pilot-training-private-companies.html?fbclid=IwAR2okJ79PkaUBRRMBgNKwwQtnrLWtvt_z27PgGg7ynBtGmsGf9IFYqeuuUc

[jazzdude]

Can’t spend an extra 20k on a retention bonus but we can hire private company’s for pilot training... makes sense
https://www.military.com/daily-news/2021/03/08/air-force-wants-outsource-some-of-its-pilot-training-private-companies.html?fbclid=IwAR2okJ79PkaUBRRMBgNKwwQtnrLWtvt_z27PgGg7ynBtGmsGf9IFYqeuuUc

Every pilot not instructing at UPT is a pilot somewhere more useful (operational unit, FTU, staff) where it may be harder to bring in contract help.

Plus, taken with the latest bonus offering, the AF is putting all it's chips in growing it's way out of the retention problem. And the current UPT bases are maxed out. Based on the timing of the RFI, I'd wager the FY22 pilot bonus will look very similar to the FY21 bonus.

End strength is capped, so spending money on contractors allows the AF to artificially increase manning without actually increasing manning.

So contract out T-1/phase 3 for MAF (or T-6 direct), redirect those T-1 bodies either back to their MWS (relieve ops tempo) or to T-6 (to plus up production). Shift flying from T-6 to more time in IFS to build air sense cheaper.

The costs might work out, at least until airline hiring starts up again, then the contractors may have trouble finding enough IPs to meet the contract.

Though it might be an interesting post-AF job if you want to fly but not be away from home.

[Smokin]

But can they grow their way out of the mishap problem?  An aggressive bonus could keep experienced guys around to help train younger pilots which would help prevent some mishaps.  Instead, they're going to save their budget dust and produce more pilots with that money to replace those apparently acceptable losses.

[Bergman]

38 minutes ago, Smokin said:

But can they grow their way out of the mishap problem?  An aggressive bonus could keep experienced guys around to help train younger pilots which would help prevent some mishaps.  Instead, they're going to save their budget dust and produce more pilots with that money to replace those apparently acceptable losses.

Sadly, I think you’re right about what will end up happening.  They SHOULD go aggressive with the bonus...$50-100k/yr.  The current bonus is not even one month’s airline paycheck; not all that appealing (if money is what motivates you).  I’d advocate for predictable schedules and decent leadership if the AF asked me.  

Edited March 10, 2021 by Bergman

[FourFans]

On 3/9/2021 at 8:03 PM, Smokin said:

But can they grow their way out of the mishap problem?  An aggressive bonus could keep experienced guys around to help train younger pilots which would help prevent some mishaps.  Instead, they're going to save their budget dust and produce more pilots with that money to replace those apparently acceptable losses.

Concur.  The one avenue they haven't tried (an aggressive bonus) is the one that would work most efficiently and effectively...just read the Rand study.  I don't understand why they didn't try a super bonus for a year or two just to see what the take rate would be.  Instead, budget dust in turning directly into airplane dust and dead pilots, and it's heartbreaking.  But hey, none of those pilots were related to Senators...so like you said: acceptable losses.  

In other news, retention in my AFRC unit is excellent, and we're not even getting a bonus this year...yet we're happy to stay.  Where's big blue's math on that?

For those who haven't read this 2019 posting by RAND:

Source: https://www.rand.org/pubs/research_reports/RR2415.html

Quote

Key Findings

Training cost per basic qualified pilot is generally quite high

• The cost of training a basic qualified fighter pilot ranges from $5.6 million for an F 16 pilot to $10.9 million for an F 22 pilot. Bomber pilot training cost is also high, ranging from $7.3 million for a B 1 pilot to $9.7 million for a B 52 pilot. Transport and mobility pilot training cost is somewhat lower, ranging from $1.1 million for a C 17 pilot to $2.5 million for a C 130J pilot. Training cost per pilot for command, control, intelligence, surveillance, and reconnaissance operations (e.g., the RC 135) is about $5.5 million.

Retaining pilots is more efficient than accessing new ones

• For each of the pilot specialties considered, increasing AvB to increase retention was more efficient than expanding the training pipeline to sustain a given pilot inventory, over the range of AvB amounts considered.
• Were pilot training cost lower — $1 million, in the case of fighter pilots — per capita cost would not continue to decline as AvB increases, and, in fact, the efficient level of AvB would be $40,000 per year of additional commitment.
• It is efficient to increase the AvB cap to at least $100,000 to retain midcareer fighter pilots in the steady state.
• The share of pilots who are experienced is larger in the early transition years, when S&I pays, rather than the size of the training pipeline, are increased, although the experience mix of pilots is more senior in the steady state.

 

Edited March 13, 2021 by FourFans130

[Magnum]

2 hours ago, FourFans130 said:

I don't understand why they didn't try a super bonus for a year or two just to see what the take rate would be.

Because it's not authorized by congress. Can't remember what the USAF wanted a few years ago but it was more than $35k and that's what they got.

[FLEA]

38 minutes ago, Magnum said:

Because it's not authorized by congress. Can't remember what the USAF wanted a few years ago but it was more than $35k and that's what they got.

They asked for 60K. I believe the house offered 48K but only 35K passed the senate. 

[Bender]

They asked for 60K. I believe the house offered 48K but only 35K passed the senate. 

But apparently we had 1.9 Trillion just laying around...


Priorities,
~Bendy


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[Homestar]

2 hours ago, Bender said:

 

But apparently we had 1.9 Trillion just laying around...


Priorities,
~Bendy


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Well, when you own the money printing machine.....

[brabus]

The irony is the Guard has the same bonuses...so if full time is your aim, find that full time guard job and still make the same bonus AD tried to hook you with. The perfect “go fuck yourself!” message to AD as you ride into greener pastures. 

[hindsight2020]

5 hours ago, brabus said:

The irony is the Guard has the same bonuses...so if full time is your aim, find that full time guard job and still make the same bonus AD tried to hook you with. The perfect “go fuck yourself!” message to AD as you ride into greener pastures. 

Heck... it's actually better than AD right now in AFRC (>2 yr gets the full treinta y cinco). It's a basically a play by play of the Office Space scene where Peter (AFRC) tells Michael (RegAF) he's getting fired, and the Bobs got him (Peter) a promotion.... 😬

P.S. Damn, that movie just keeps delivering for me 22 years later. 

 

"What?!!" Kills me every time. 🤣

Edited March 14, 2021 by hindsight2020