Aviation Continuation Pay (ACP - The Bonus)

[brwwg&b]

Looks similar to ones in the past, except now there's a graduated $ increase from 3-4 years (35K) to 5-7 year (42.5K) or 8-12 year (50K) options.

Since this is the "Legacy" AvB, it doesn't apply yet for people who are approaching but not AT their ADSC.

11Rs still get some form of screwed (35K max, except U2 pilots with RDTM EH...whatever that means) I think they're only trying to screw non U-2 11Rs this time.

Open until 15 September, will be interesting to see if there's any difference from historical take rates...

[brabus]

Imagine signing a 12 yr bonus…I’d rather drag my balls through 69 miles of broken glass covered in hot sauce. 

[Bigred]

27 minutes ago, brabus said:

Imagine signing a 12 yr bonus…I’d rather drag my balls through 69 miles of broken glass covered in hot sauce. 

I don’t understand the rational behind that. 12 years would put an initial eligible dude on the hook till 21-22 years, if I’m understanding it correctly. 

[Standby]

26 minutes ago, Bigred said:

I don’t understand the rational behind that. 12 years would put an initial eligible dude on the hook till 21-22 years, if I’m understanding it correctly. 

I’d say closer to 23-24…so essentially a dude gunning for O-6 or beyond.  

[Pooter]

It's wild because the dudes taking the 12 year 50 k extension were probably staying anyway. So now big AF just has to pay them more.

The actual crux of the retention problem is the 90% of 2nd yr majors  drowning in queep who are non school selects.. reading the tea leaves that a laughlin tour or bullshit Africa 365 are in their very near future. So maybe getting paid more to fly at the airlines with precisely 0% chance of a deployment and 0% you get domiciled in Laughlin is pretty attractive.

If the Air Force  is actually serious about fixing retention, they need to offer stupid money in the first few years after the ADSC ends.

 

[Danger41]

The 365 fear is out there but does anyone know anyone that actually got a non-vol 365?

[Duck]

Any word on the ANG bonus for AGRs?


Sent from my iPhone using Baseops Network mobile app

[SocialD]

58 minutes ago, Danger41 said:

The 365 fear is out there but does anyone know anyone that actually got a non-vol 365?

 

 

Yes, without much thought, I can think of 3...Died, Djibouti and somewhere else in the middle east.  2 of them were within 2 years of 20.

 

 

5 minutes ago, Duck said:

Any word on the ANG bonus for AGRs?

 

 

It's out, not good enough.   Big bonus (3 years) = $50k, small bonus = $30k.

[Danger41]

9 minutes ago, SocialD said:

 

 

Yes, without much thought, I can think of 3...Died, Djibouti and somewhere else in the middle east.  2 of them were within 2 years of 20.

Damn man, that’s wild. Only guys I know that did that were volunteers for air advisor stuff. Plenty of guys got tagged for BS deployments for a few months but not 365’s. That sucks big time.

[brabus]

1 hour ago, Danger41 said:

The 365 fear is out there but does anyone know anyone that actually got a non-vol 365?

I know 4. Maybe fighters got hit harder than others?

[brabus]

56 minutes ago, Duck said:

Any word on the ANG bonus for AGRs?


Sent from my iPhone using Baseops Network mobile app

It’s at FSS and CCs for each wing. $50k for 3-6 years (11X full time orders, excludes RPA). It’s massively better than the AD bonus, as expected. 

Edited June 7, 2023 by brabus

[StrikeOut312]

I know one guy in the tanker world that did a 365 a few years ago. In the last year, my squadron got 3x 180s—2 guys got stuck with them for ADSC/bonus reasons, 1 guy 7-day opted.

I think it’s disingenuous to completely dog the AF and denigrate folks that stay in. Around the 10-12 year point, the AF is a comfortable, easy job with good pay and benefits. For some folks and their families, sticking around in the AF is the right and easy call. A close friend of mine said that for these guys, the bonus is an entitlement—almost a “thank you” for sticking around.

I know I’m not a golden boy on the path, and I’ve known for at least a couple years I’m probably gonna split when the ADSC is up next summer. The bonus is too little, too late, with too many unknowns—where am I gonna PCS? Where will the AF TDY/deploy folks? What’s the next once-in-a-career thing I’ll experience?

[StoleIt]

5 minutes ago, brabus said:

It’s at FSS and CCs for each wing. $50k for 3-6 years (11X full time orders, excludes RPA). It’s massively better than the AD bonus, as expected. 

Schweet.

Don't happen to have a source/memo for that though? Nobody on my end has heard it.

[brabus]

I only have a screen shot, but will post the actual source when I can get it. 

[pawnman]

3 hours ago, Danger41 said:

The 365 fear is out there but does anyone know anyone that actually got a non-vol 365?

Multiple people. Including a guy who got out at 18 years instead of taking the 365, walked across the street, and joined the reserve unit. 

[SocialD]

57 minutes ago, StrikeOut312 said:

I know one guy in the tanker world that did a 365 a few years ago. In the last year, my squadron got 3x 180s—2 guys got stuck with them for ADSC/bonus reasons, 1 guy 7-day opted.

I think it’s disingenuous to completely dog the AF and denigrate folks that stay in. Around the 10-12 year point, the AF is a comfortable, easy job with good pay and benefits. For some folks and their families, sticking around in the AF is the right and easy call. A close friend of mine said that for these guys, the bonus is an entitlement—almost a “thank you” for sticking around.

I know I’m not a golden boy on the path, and I’ve known for at least a couple years I’m probably gonna split when the ADSC is up next summer. The bonus is too little, too late, with too many unknowns—where am I gonna PCS? Where will the AF TDY/deploy folks? What’s the next once-in-a-career thing I’ll experience?

 

 

One classmate has done a single ops tour and has spent the rest of his career bouncing between Luke and Eglin.  I think he's going to extend/PCA at Eglin to finish his 20.  I get why he stays, hard to leave when you've been shielded from deployments most of your career and the ops tempo is pretty decent.  The rest who have done ops to ops, all bailed to the ANG or just got out after their UPT ADSC.  I have multiple examples of these two tales and they all pretty much have the same result.  ...a tale of two careers.  

 

Break break

1. Airline guys within 5 years of their 20.

2. Airline guys who commute.  

 

The bonus takers in my squadron fall into the two categories above.  The guys in the number 1 category would have stayed regardless of the bonus.  The $50k may have swayed a guy that falls into the the #2 category, though I think his cross country commute to ANC has more to do with that.  

 

 

55 minutes ago, StoleIt said:

Schweet.

Don't happen to have a source/memo for that though? Nobody on my end has heard it.

 

 

PM sent

[Pooter]

4 hours ago, StrikeOut312 said:

I know one guy in the tanker world that did a 365 a few years ago. In the last year, my squadron got 3x 180s—2 guys got stuck with them for ADSC/bonus reasons, 1 guy 7-day opted.

I think it’s disingenuous to completely dog the AF and denigrate folks that stay in. Around the 10-12 year point, the AF is a comfortable, easy job with good pay and benefits. For some folks and their families, sticking around in the AF is the right and easy call. A close friend of mine said that for these guys, the bonus is an entitlement—almost a “thank you” for sticking around.

I know I’m not a golden boy on the path, and I’ve known for at least a couple years I’m probably gonna split when the ADSC is up next summer. The bonus is too little, too late, with too many unknowns—where am I gonna PCS? Where will the AF TDY/deploy folks? What’s the next once-in-a-career thing I’ll experience?

100% agree and I'm not bashing the dudes that want to stay in. If I was on the golden path for school and some joint gig in DC my calculus might change too. Because I'm fairly sure the #1 guy at my base doesn't have to worry about getting sent to Laughlin. 
 

But my point is if the AF wants the bonus to actually do anything for retention it needs to be very convincing money in the short term targeted squarely at the dudes getting out in droves. For the guys on the fence about getting out, taking on an additional 10 year commitment is a literal joke.. for any amount of money. 
 

You solve the retention problem by targeting the middle 50% of dudes and convincing them it's worth their while to stay another 2-3 years. 

Edited June 7, 2023 by Pooter

[StrikeOut312]

1 hour ago, Pooter said:

 

You solve the retention problem by targeting the middle 50% of dudes and convincing them it's worth their while to stay another 2-3 years. 

Concur. I think the AF is trying with the base-of-preference tied to the bonus, it’s just too late—and I don’t know how well it’ll work out.

I’d be intrigued by a one year bonus. I’m even intrigued by the possibility of sticking around as a free agent. But Guard/Reserve with a line number addresses the .mil flying and padding the bank account. Or so the old guys on here tell us…

[Ryder1587]

Here’s a serious question.  Why would someone even stay Active Duty after their initial commitment ?  What draw is there ?  I get it for the people who want to lead and are desiring O-6 and beyond. But you can even do that in the Reserves and Guard.  Why would not everyone try to get an AGR gig and pick where you want to live , get the bonus , and have a say in your life ?  I seriously don’t get it.  

[Bigred]

4 hours ago, StrikeOut312 said:

Concur. I think the AF is trying with the base-of-preference tied to the bonus, it’s just too late—and I don’t know how well it’ll work out.

I’d be intrigued by a one year bonus. I’m even intrigued by the possibility of sticking around as a free agent. But Guard/Reserve with a line number addresses the .mil flying and padding the bank account. Or so the old guys on here tell us…

I’m really interested to see what happens in a few years when situations develop like Osprey dudes taking the bonus and choose OCONUS/Hurlburt to avoid Cannon. 
 

 

[Pooter]

3 hours ago, StrikeOut312 said:

Concur. I think the AF is trying with the base-of-preference tied to the bonus, it’s just too late—and I don’t know how well it’ll work out.

I’d be intrigued by a one year bonus. I’m even intrigued by the possibility of sticking around as a free agent. But Guard/Reserve with a line number addresses the .mil flying and padding the bank account. Or so the old guys on here tell us…

Yeah I'd trust the base of preference thing about as far as I can throw AFPC.. which is to say zero

[Danger41]

4 hours ago, Ryder1587 said:

Here’s a serious question.  Why would someone even stay Active Duty after their initial commitment ?  What draw is there ?  I get it for the people who want to lead and are desiring O-6 and beyond. But you can even do that in the Reserves and Guard.  Why would not everyone try to get an AGR gig and pick where you want to live , get the bonus , and have a say in your life ?  I seriously don’t get it.  

Some like it. Some have families and don’t want to leave the steadiness of the job. Some would like to punch but can’t get hired at the local reserve unit. Not sure if you’re being glib but grabbing an AGR job is not nearly as easy as people make it out to be. For example, say you’re from Denver and want to leave AD and join the ANG. Sweet! There’s a F-16 unit there and they’re hiring! You’re not current and qualified Viper IP? Kick rocks. Okay, NBD you can go to USAFA and teach there. Oh you never did that and you’re an average dude that isn’t in the top 100 applicants? Bummer. Cheyenne is pretty close and you could fly Herks! No connection to the unit and not a Herk guy? Line is over here. 
 

Hopefully your mileage varies but it’s not often that easy. Whereas staying AD is easy and safe for a lot of folks. Don’t necessarily think that’s the best reason to stay AD, but not everyone that stays is an idiot and deserves to be shit on. 

[Pooter]

3 hours ago, Bigred said:

I’m really interested to see what happens in a few years when situations develop like Osprey dudes taking the bonus and choose OCONUS/Hurlburt to avoid Cannon. 
 

 

Except you already know what's going to happen. Surprise! Needs of the Air Force. Promising Base of preference on an enterprise level doesn't work when you have objective shitholes that you have to man with people. What happens when every eligible UPT ADO preferences Randolph? Are they just gonna stop manning the UPT bases with majors and above? What happens when every viper driver in existence prefs aviano/spang over holloman? No more b-course I guess. 
 

And if by some wild chance the Air Force does attempt to keep its word to the bonus takers, now they have to try and force free agents to PCS to the Laughlins and cannons and minots of the world, resulting in the same 7 day opt waves we've already seen. 
 

It'll take big blue 6.9 seconds to figure out it's totally unsustainable and turn it off. 
 

 

[nsplayr]

2 hours ago, Danger41 said:

Not sure if you’re being glib but grabbing an AGR job is not nearly as easy as people make it out to be.

YMMV significantly, but in my unit among AGR pilots, the one with the most recent hire date was 2015, and he's the squadron patch. Other than him, the "newest" guy who is an AGR was probably hired in like 2007 as an enlisted dude. You can't just walk into an AGR around here as much as many folks would like to!

Still waiting patiently for someone to die or retire, as god intended for his wayward children the Guard bums 😅

[BeefBears]

BOP flat out will not work in AFSOC. The bonus ADSC is the best way to ensure Cannon manning without a bunch of 7-day opts. 

Personally, I didn't take the bonus and still plan on 20 years AD. The extra money isn't worth having my hands tied. I've seen the AF (and more specifically AFSOC) do some really shitty things to good dudes and they just had to eat the shit sandwich because they took the bonus. 

Don't take the bonus, be a free agent, and leave the reserves/guard/civilian door open even if you don't end up using it.