Aviation Continuation Pay (ACP - The Bonus)

[Rudy the Rabbit]

On 12/19/2016 at 8:51 AM, General Chang said:

We have a plan to backfill the bomber community with additional UPT grads... 

We had a lot of personnelists spend many hours...

1.  It would be easier for the AF if we back-filled you with a UPT grad.  Even a fresh one.  Your community has pretty much screwed everything up in a major that you have been responsible for since at least 2013.  Anyone else could do better.  How have you not been fired?  Oh wait, you are a product of the personnel system.

 

2.  Ha, riiiiight.  In between training days at the bowling alley.  You know something is wrong in your world when you have to specifically emphasize that you had people work many hours for an event in order to support your argument.  "Guys, no wait, listen...we actually had personnelists work for this.  And not just any work.  It was many hours of work.  Trust me, this is going to blow your mind!"  Wait for it......We will replace the outgoing IP/EP, stan eval chief types, and all the others leaving with 10-12 years of experience with UPT grads.  Problem solved.  Ok now that that's done, where are we going for training day?  By the way, is anyone else just totally wiped out from all that work that we just did?  You know what, skip the alley, let's just all high-five each other and go home.

 

 

[stract]

On 1/6/2017 at 1:00 PM, daynightindicator said:

It was in the porch brief from our functional. Official AFPC brief. He also mentioned Moody standing back up for full UPT ops.


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lol.  Ramp's full at Moody.  The space once occupied by the T-6s and T-38s is occupied by A-10s and A-39s.  Airspace is also full.  Pipe dream for someone at AFPC, methinks.

[Ulysses]

I thought I heard somewhere on here that there were rumors of Willy being stood back up for UPT. Any credence to that at all?

[ViperStud]

40 minutes ago, Ulysses said:

I thought I heard somewhere on here that there were rumors of Willy being stood back up for UPT. Any credence to that at all?

Yeah I heard it was down to Willie, Hartsfield and JFK.  IMhO, all are equally probable.

[matmacwc]

12 minutes ago, ViperStud said:

Yeah I heard it was down to Willie, Hartsfield and JFK.  IMhO, all are equally probable.

Must be into the bourbon again.

[stract]

1 hour ago, Ulysses said:

I thought I heard somewhere on here that there were rumors of Willy being stood back up for UPT. Any credence to that at all?

You mean Mesa Gateway Airport? 

[ViperStud]

14 minutes ago, matmacwc said:

Must be into the bourbon again.

Nope. Willie is a pipe dream. No base/infractructure there anymore, it's a busy airport, it's been completely encroached on and the MOAs here are quite saturated already. The chances of Willie standing up ARE about the same as Hartsfield or JFK. What are we going to do, acquire land and build a base around it somehow? 

[ViperMan]

1 hour ago, Ulysses said:

I thought I heard somewhere on here that there were rumors of Willy being stood back up for UPT. Any credence to that at all?

MOAs around Willie are already used nearly to capacity. Adding basic pilot training there? Yeah, right.

[LookieRookie]

i heard Otis is going full up so we can have Texans buzzing Martha's Vineyard

 

Edit: On a serious note, there is an official brief developed to restart UPT at Moody.

The premise however was AFTER A-29's left.  Since A-29's are staying now with Lebanon starting up training who knows.

There were a few COAs:

1. Full T-6 Squadron only

2. 49 FTS leaves CBM and becomes split T-38 IFF/T-6.  One DO over each a/c.

3. IFF squadron and T-6 squadron and OSS with a GSU Flying Training Group belonging to 14 FTW.

 

The idea is that UPT is a full T-6 squadron (1/2 regular base production) short.  Now where they planned to get the IPs, jets, parts, etc... I have no idea.

Edited January 8, 2017 by LookieRookie

[Sprkt69]

If that's the case, might as well bring back Bergstrom. I'm sure plenty of people would volunteer for that one.

[FlightTime]

On 1/2/2017 at 2:20 PM, nsplayr said:

Almost every payment or budget item in the government should be pegged to chained CPI to account for inflation.

This makes no sense.  Doing so would defeat the purpose of inflation altogether.  You're thinking like a taxpayer here. 

[Polar Bear]

Let's see.... I'll take a stab at this.

The Guard and Reserves used to be a real good deal, but things have changed a lot since 9/11. We're being abused. The difference now is that we have options and leverage. Is it still a better deal than AD? In a lot of ways, yes, but our government's expectations from the ARC is over the top.

They've gotten used to the ARC's willingness to bend over backwards to get'r done for a paycheck. Furloughed airline pilots, ARC bums, ART's looking to close the gap between a shitty net pay and an AGR salary, you name it, the ARC has risen to the occasion with just about everything they've thrown at us. Yeah, we all raised our hands and are as patriotic as the next guy, but at the end of the day you have to make it worth our while to do rotation after rotation to PACOM and CENTCOM.

We don't have the reprieve the AD guys do of a staff tour (gasp), being detailed to the Wing or getting a white jet tour to break up the monotony of living in the desert. Traditional guardsmen/reservists are pretty much line pilots for life. You have the option to stay in as a Lt Col for 28 years and fly the line every day of those 28 years. We've relied on a lot of volunteerism, but when you've got guys who've been doing this for 15-20 years, they're getting tired and it's come to the point where it's just not worth it to them anymore.

I don't care what some of the AD guys think, it's not easy to be a mission-ready pilot at less than 1/3 the cost of our AD counterparts while holding a full-time civilian job. We don't have to do any less training than anyone else out there. Add that to the mountains of ancillary training, DIY administrative queep, and the neverending shift toward support agencies being allowed to run the AF the way they want it run, not the way it should be run.

Our traditionals don't get a bonus to stay past 10 years. In the past, our retention program was good deal trips to cush destinations and unparalleled comradery while we were there, but those deals are few and far in between. Add that to anal retentive policies that have shit-canned just about any fun you could possibly have in fear of an article 15 or worse, jail time.

On the full-time side, the ART program is going to destroy the ARC's ability to maintain mission-ready flying squadrons and they're about 10 years too late trying to fix it.

So yes, I see there being many challenges for the ARC and I'm not looking forward to it. I need 5 more years to get my guard retirement. It's gonna be the longest 5 years of my life. Speaking of retirements, this new military retirement system coming online soon will NOT work in the ARC's favor for retention.

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I see lots of Art postings in the Guard/Reserves but are they not giving out AGR jobs? Would guys stay in or have they already made the decision to jump to the airlines for more stability?

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[nsplayr]

13 hours ago, FlightTime said:

This makes no sense.  Doing so would defeat the purpose of inflation altogether.  You're thinking like a taxpayer here. 

It defeats bureaucratic inertia from cutting the purchasing power of payment recipients that happens because of inaction rather than purposeful cuts. 

Take ACIP for instance. The tier that many of us are likely in has been $650 per month for approx. 25 years...and it's purchasing power has been eroded by inflation almost every single year.

$650 in 1990 buys way more booze and hookers than in 2016. Bar napkin math (and an online historical inflation calculator) say that $650 in 1990 dollars has the same purchasing power as $1,179 in 2015 dollars.

This effect amounts to real cuts in pay over time. Do you believe that Congress and DoD has purposefully lessened the incentives for aviators to fly in the service, or have those cuts happened simply due to inaction and the fact that they happen slowly over a long period of time?

What I'm saying is that our appointed leaders in DoD and elected officials are free to reduce expenditures on personnel. BUT, make them (namely Congress) stand up and vote for cuts rather than allowing them to slyly let costs decrease due to inflation. Go on the record saying you're reducing a program or budget line item rather than doing nothing, which in effect is a small cut year after year after year  

Same goes for all payments the government makes or programs it funds. Someone or some program shouldn't get more purchasing power out of a dollar received from a program just because that received that dollar in the past.

By god, if $650 per month was what seems fair to pay air crew in 1990, then $1,179 should seem equally fair today. The apollo program took us to the moon for around $20B over 15 years...today spending $20B on a space program with similar goals wouldn't get us to shit.

[matmacwc]

Airlines for stability?  Thats a funny one, I would say ARTs a pretty stable place to be, though sucky.

[Jaded]

I dunno, if you're at an airline with 2000 people below you in seniority? That's pretty good stability. 

[Gazmo]

I see lots of Art postings in the Guard/Reserves but are they not giving out AGR jobs? Would guys stay in or have they already made the decision to jump to the airlines for more stability?

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The AGR billets in the ANG are few and far in between, but of course it depends on the state. A lot of states have a lot of AGR billets in the Army Guard, but have more ART's on the Air side. What you also have to consider is that a lot of ANG units were manned with ART's from the CSRS generation who pulled SAC alert/Alpha alert with the old 3 for 1 deal and were able to retire with 56%+ annuity, plus a military retirement. The dudes could easily pull in over $100k a year in retirement. Now, ART retirements are 1:1 and heavily dependant on your own TSP contributions. Definitely not as good of a deal. So, basically... previous regimes who happily walked out the door in the 2005-2010 timeframe before the shit hit the fan didn't really care about making life better for the guys still here in the fabulous FERS program.

AGR jobs aren't even getting filled. Most of the young guys who are in their prime to land a major airline job are not interested in commiting to a 3 or 4 year tour. You need TAG approval to voluntarily curtail an AGR tour and most aren't willing to take the risk. Being an ART has its advantages of being a "free agent".

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[Polar Bear]

Why are guys so hung up on the airlines? Are they worried that after 3 years they could be told to walk? Is the airline lifestyle that inticing or is the AGR lifestyle not worth it even for the guys who commute?

As far as the fed government retirement the Army guys don't seem to complain. Maybe it's the lack of airline opportunity or supporting the guys on the ground mentality.

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[Prozac]

1 hour ago, caseylf said:

Why are guys so hung up on the airlines? Are they worried that after 3 years they could be told to walk? Is the airline lifestyle that inticing or is the AGR lifestyle not worth it even for the guys who commute?

As far as the fed government retirement the Army guys don't seem to complain. Maybe it's the lack of airline opportunity or supporting the guys on the ground mentality.

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The pay to bullshit ratio is orders of magnitude in the airlines' favor.

[Vetter]

Airline life is like a stripper.  Once to get your hands on her and see how nice she feels, you'll never be able to go back to your ugly, fat bitch wife.  Sure, the stripper isn't perfect by any means...but it's oh so much better than your previous witch...

Edited January 8, 2017 by Vetter

[Karl Hungus]

4 hours ago, caseylf said:

I see lots of Art postings in the Guard/Reserves but are they not giving out AGR jobs? Would guys stay in or have they already made the decision to jump to the airlines for more stability?

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Why the screenname change Scoobs?

[Gazmo]

Why the screenname change Scoobs?

I was thinking the same thing.

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[guineapigfury]

5 hours ago, Vetter said:

Airline life is like a stripper.  Once to get your hands on her and see how nice she feels, you'll never be able to go back to your ugly, fat bitch wife.  Sure, the stripper isn't perfect by any means...but it's oh so much better than your previous witch...

This is a hilariously accurate depiction of civilian life.  I'm not in the airlines, but do a flying job for comparable pay.  When I look back on Big Blue I think the same thing I do about my ex-wife: why the fuck did I ever put up with that?

[di1630]

Airline life is like a stripper.  Once to get your hands on her and see how nice she feels, you'll never be able to go back to your ugly, fat bitch wife.  Sure, the stripper isn't perfect by any means...but it's oh so much better than your previous witch...

After falling out of my chair laughing I printed this and hung it in the sq. Well done.


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[stract]

On 1/7/2017 at 7:56 PM, Sprkt69 said:

If that's the case, might as well bring back Bergstrom. I'm sure plenty of people would volunteer for that one.

I wish (native Austinite here)!  I remember visiting Bergstrom when I was in middle school before it got BRAC'd.  Now it's the international airport...so that won't work either.

[CrateOfThunder]

I did a quick search and found the question posted, but not really answered...

Are VRAD (voluntary return to active duty) 11Fs ACP eligible? Apparently there are some unfilled 3 year orders available, but the VRAD AFI doesn't seem to address it directly. Thanks!