Aviation Continuation Pay (ACP - The Bonus)

[Gazmo]

https://federalnewsradio.com/air-force/2017/03/air-force-meeting-airlines-pilot-shortage-may/

Home » Defense » Air Force » UPDATED: Air Force meeting…
EXCLUSIVE
UPDATED: Air Force meeting with airlines on pilot shortage in May

By Scott Maucione | @smaucioneWFED
March 27, 2017 3:04 pm
5 min read
The Air Force is preparing to meet with commercial flight companies in hopes it can find a way to stop the bleeding of experienced pilots leaving the force.

“Our senior leaders are going to start collaborating with the airlines in May to see if we can get a public private partnership and what that might look like, so I think that’s where you’ll see we are going,” Lt. Gen. Gina Grosso, the Air Force deputy chief of staff for Manpower, Personnel and Services, told Federal News Radio.

During a March 29 House Armed Services Personnel Subcommittee hearing, Grosso said that the Air Force is exploring an intermission program that would allow pilots to fly certain seasons with an airline company and then come back to the Air Force.

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This is called the ANG and AFRC Gina.... Stop screwing the ARC by treating us like AD on the cheap and learn something from us. Give us more people and more funding. Give us more full-time AGR manning with a $35k+ bonus. Give our leaders REAL leadership positions. Stop trying to push us out of the picture while harping the "Total Force" bullshit... it's gotten old.

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[Clark Griswold]

Not an airline guy but once a commercial pilot and member of a union, putting on my working pilot cap...

what the shit would this "season" working thing look like?  would these guy just come in the "busy" season, work up to the legal limit a few months at a time?  how the hell does that fit into the PBS with their line numbers?  was a pilot rep at this "great" meeting?

i swear the af is hell bent on doing everything but admit they actually have a institutional problem and will look for any gd thing that looks like it can keep the shoe clerk machine lurching just a few more miles down the line...

[faipmafiaofficial]

1 hour ago, Duck said:

https://federalnewsradio.com/air-force/2017/03/air-force-meeting-airlines-pilot-shortage-may/

Home » Defense » Air Force » UPDATED: Air Force meeting…
EXCLUSIVE
UPDATED: Air Force meeting with airlines on pilot shortage in May

By Scott Maucione | @smaucioneWFED
March 27, 2017 3:04 pm
5 min read
The Air Force is preparing to meet with commercial flight companies in hopes it can find a way to stop the bleeding of experienced pilots leaving the force.

“Our senior leaders are going to start collaborating with the airlines in May to see if we can get a public private partnership and what that might look like, so I think that’s where you’ll see we are going,” Lt. Gen. Gina Grosso, the Air Force deputy chief of staff for Manpower, Personnel and Services, told Federal News Radio.

During a March 29 House Armed Services Personnel Subcommittee hearing, Grosso said that the Air Force is exploring an intermission program that would allow pilots to fly certain seasons with an airline company and then come back to the Air Force.

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The program would give pilots seniority in the commercial airline world, while still filling much needed pilot spots in the military service.

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“We are also starting to look at [allowing] aviators to fly part time on their on their own. I think those are just two ideas, and there are many more,” Grosso said.

Grosso said the partnership would look for a “win-win” situation for both the airlines and the Air Force.

“How can we get stability for defending and protecting the United States and how can [the airlines] get stability in having a pipeline for their aviators? We think there are some possibilities there, especially when we look to our allies,” Grosso said. “Our allies have national airlines, so it makes it a little easier, but there are definitely some models out there that we are hoping that we can take advantage of.”

The Air Force alone is dealing with a shortage of more than 600 pilots. The service is having trouble competing with airlines that can pay pilots more. The trouble comes when pilots are up for reenlistment.

Military pilots have training and hours required to qualify to fly for the major airlines without having to work for smaller regional airlines first.

“Because major airlines work on a seniority system, the best opportunity for salary growth in the major airlines occurs for military pilots leaving after their initial service obligation,” a July 2016 RAND report stated. Another factor that is appealing to military pilots is the Federal Aviation Administration increased the mandatory retirement age for pilots from 60 to 65 in 2007, giving pilots longer to cash in on their talents.

The military services tried using reenlistment bonuses to keep pilots in the force, but their appeal is dropping.

The Navy saw a 3.7 percent drop in new retention bonus contracts in 2015, dropping from almost 59 percent to 55 percent, stated a 2016 report to Congress.

The Air Force is seeing even bigger declines. In 2013, 68 percent of eligible pilots signed on for incentive pay contracts with the Air Force. That number dropped to 59 percent in 2014 and further to 55 percent in 2015. Only 410 out of 745 pilots eligible for bonuses actually took them in 2015. Only 42 percent of pilots offered early bonus contracts took the bait.

That’s especially troubling when the Air Force estimates that the cost to train one F-22 fighter pilot, for example, is $12.5 million.

One reason the report states for the pilots’ lack of interest in bonuses is the size of the incentive pay. Pilots are allowed a maximum $25,000 bonus per year, a number that has not changed since 1999.

That incentive pay may have worked five or 10 years ago when commercial airlines weren’t paying as well, but the RAND study states commercial airline pay has rebounded to mid-1990s peak salaries of $200,000.

“We have no trouble recruiting pilots. We have more people who want to be pilots than we have spaces to train them. For us the issue is … we are not retaining enough,” Grosso said.

Grosso added that as pilots reach their 11th year in the service the Air Force needs to keep around 65 percent. Over the years, that number has slowly declined.

“We have gaps in the force and we are very, very concerned about this and our chief has called this a crisis,” Grosso said.

Grosso told Congress the new blended retirement system may provide less of an incentive for pilots to stay in the service for a full 20 years as well.

Part of the Air Force’s attempt to become more appealing to pilots involves bettering their quality of life.

“What we found in the past — and we’ve been through this before because airlines have hired before — is quality of service is as important as quality of life. And quality of service is making sure that you’re given the opportunity to be the best you can be in your design, in your chosen occupation. Pilots who don’t fly, maintainers who’s don’t maintain, controllers who don’t control, will walk. And there’s not enough money in the Treasury to keep them in if we don’t need to give them the resources to be the best they can be. In my mind, readiness and morale are inexplicably linked. Where we have high readiness, we tend to have high moral because they’re given the opportunities to compete. Where we have low readiness, we have our lowest morale,” Air Force Chief of Staff David Goldfein told the Senate Armed Services Committee last September.

To make up for that the Air Force reduced additional training and extra duties for airmen, so they can have more free time. The service is currently looking for additional areas to cut in order to better quality of life.

Rep. Martha McSally (R-Ariz.) suggested the military services try to contact pilots who left the service, but did not join an airline to see if they may be interested in flying again.

“Maybe they went to start a business of their own or tried some other ‘grass is always greener’ thing and now they are realizing they miss the camaraderie, they miss the mission … it’s challenging to try and find these people it’s challenging to find the experienced pilots that have left. Maybe they are two, three, five years out, it doesn’t matter. Retraining them with the experience they’ve had and bringing them back even for just one assignment is worth the investment,” McSally said.


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If I'm an airline CEO I'm just laughing at this. How would any of that above benefit them? They are REAPING the benefits of the Air Force losing pilots.  Why would they even come to the table to talk about stuff like this?

[Sprkt69]

The airlines provided all the information to the AF leadership long ago, and Big Blue ignored it all. Even going so far as paying people to get out early, or telling the quitters to get out as they will be replaced. Now these brilliant ideals from the AF leadership are too little to late to truly solve the problems. It will most likely just negatively affect those close to the end of their commitment. This is kind of like watching a slow motion accident.

[MetroF16]

On 3/17/2017 at 8:44 PM, the g-man said:

Can we re-visit the fact that the ACIP has not been revised since 1989?

$650 then is worth about double that now.


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I'm on exchange with the RAF and I'm TDY, so, let's just say I've got the time to look this up. Straight from the 2017 NDAA:

SEC. 616. AVIATION INCENTIVE PAY AND BONUS MATTERS.

(a) MAXIMUM INCENTIVE PAY AND BONUS AMOUNTS.—Paragraph (1) of section 334(c) of title 37, United States Code, is amended by striking subparagraphs (A) and (B) and inserting the following new subparagraphs:

‘‘(A) aviation incentive pay under subsection (a) shall be paid at a monthly rate not to exceed $1,000 per month; and

‘‘(B) an aviation bonus under subsection (b) may not exceed $35,000 for each 12-month period of obligated service agreed to under subsection (d).’’. 

 

Flight pay is going up too. 

If ya'll want me to post the NDAA too, holler at me.

[matmacwc]

19 minutes ago, Sprkt69 said:

The airlines provided all the information to the AF leadership long ago, and Big Blue ignored it all. Even going so far as paying people to get out early, or telling the quitters to get out as they will be replaced. Now these brilliant ideals from the AF leadership are too little to late to truly solve the problems. It will most likely just negatively affect those close to the end of their commitment. This is kind of like watching a slow motion accident.

I was one of those 11F's paid to get out, turns out the jokes on me.  DONT TAKE THE MONEY!  I will explain in a large wall of words soon.  And why don't you have an airline job yet??

Edited March 30, 2017 by matmacwc

[Tone deaf]

3 hours ago, Duck said:

“We have no trouble recruiting pilots. We have more people who want to be pilots than we have spaces to train them. For us the issue is … we are not retaining enough,” Grosso said.

Grosso added that as pilots reach their 11th year in the service the Air Force needs to keep around 65 percent. Over the years, that number has slowly declined.

“We have gaps in the force and we are very, very concerned about this and our chief has called this a crisis,” Grosso said.

Grosso told Congress the new blended retirement system may provide less of an incentive for pilots to stay in the service for a full 20 years as well.

 

This is the BGen Grosso who, as the Director of Force Management and Policy at the Pentagon, certainly oversaw and endorsed all of the nonsensical force shaping that occurred under her watch.  Lots of manpower resources were paid well to leave.  Sad that she was promoted to MGen, then went on to be the Director of the USAF SAPR office, which produced another star.

Now as a LtGen she is back to clean up the mess she oversaw, which will certainly produce another star.

People like this in leadership positions combined with the complete lack of accountability for failed decisions and policies are at the heart of what is wrong with the USAF today.

[tac airlifter]

5 hours ago, matmacwc said:

I was one of those 11F's paid to get out, turns out the jokes on me.  DONT TAKE THE MONEY!  I will explain in a large wall of words soon.  And why don't you have an airline job yet??

 

[Chuck17]

6 hours ago, Tone deaf said:

This is the BGen Grosso who, as the Director of Force Management and Policy at the Pentagon, certainly oversaw and endorsed all of the nonsensical force shaping that occurred under her watch.  Lots of manpower resources were paid well to leave.  Sad that she was promoted to MGen, then went on to be the Director of the USAF SAPR office, which produced another star.

Now as a LtGen she is back to clean up the mess she oversaw, which will certainly produce another star.

People like this in leadership positions combined with the complete lack of accountability for failed decisions and policies are at the heart of what is wrong with the USAF today.

It's been going on way longer than that - the track record goes back further than BGen. Much like another 3-button in the HAF hierarchy right now, there's sometimes decisions made based on demographics... if you catch my meaning. But they're not the only problem.

Dont worry (yet), there were far more qualified personnelists that didn't get a fourth star.

My prediction is we get laughed out of the meeting, but it won't be the gut check it needs to be. Had many interesting conversations about this lately, with people asking what they should tell their squadrons. There's only one answer: the truth, because anything else is bullshit and results in a further loss of credibility. Pilots have more opportunity and leverage than at any time I've seen in my short career in the service. If they walk, they win; if they stay, dice roll. Guys are turning down incredible opportunities to walk and go get a line number. So the service is going to have to get on its knees to keep people from walking, or stop loss and slit its own throat.

i wouldn't hold my breath for either,

Chuck

Edited March 30, 2017 by Chuck17

[pawnman]

9 hours ago, MetroF16 said:

I'm on exchange with the RAF and I'm TDY, so, let's just say I've got the time to look this up. Straight from the 2017 NDAA:

SEC. 616. AVIATION INCENTIVE PAY AND BONUS MATTERS.

(a) MAXIMUM INCENTIVE PAY AND BONUS AMOUNTS.—Paragraph (1) of section 334(c) of title 37, United States Code, is amended by striking subparagraphs (A) and (B) and inserting the following new subparagraphs:

‘‘(A) aviation incentive pay under subsection (a) shall be paid at a monthly rate not to exceed $1,000 per month; and

‘‘(B) an aviation bonus under subsection (b) may not exceed $35,000 for each 12-month period of obligated service agreed to under subsection (d).’’. 

 

Flight pay is going up too. 

If ya'll want me to post the NDAA too, holler at me.

The NDAA authorized flight pay to go up.  So far, no sign that the Air Force is actually going to increase it.

[Duck]

The NDAA authorized flight pay to go up.  So far, no sign that the Air Force is actually going to increase it.

The AF strategy is to retain people at the 12 year point, when in actuality they need to start retaining people at the 2 year point. It's too late to try and make people change their minds when you have beat them for 10 years.


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[di1630]

I'm on exchange with the RAF and I'm TDY, so, let's just say I've got the time to look this up. Straight from the 2017 NDAA:
SEC. 616. AVIATION INCENTIVE PAY AND BONUS MATTERS.
(a) MAXIMUM INCENTIVE PAY AND BONUS AMOUNTS.—Paragraph (1) of section 334© of title 37, United States Code, is amended by striking subparagraphs (A) and (B) and inserting the following new subparagraphs:
‘‘(A) aviation incentive pay under subsection (a) shall be paid at a monthly rate not to exceed $1,000 per month; and
‘‘(B) an aviation bonus under subsection (b) may not exceed $35,000 for each 12-month period of obligated service agreed to under subsection (d).’’. 
 
Flight pay is going up too. 
If ya'll want me to post the NDAA too, holler at me.

Where have you seen anything pointing to an actual increases in AIP? Keep in mind $1k max....assuming they apply that to the already $840 per month pilots, I'm betting the other lower tiers get a $69 increase which is sh-t in the scheme of things vs inflation.






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[Jaded]

$1k a month? I get that much airline per diem per month.  

[Gazmo]

The AF strategy is to retain people at the 12 year point, when in actuality they need to start retaining people at the 2 year point. It's too late to try and make people change their minds when you have beat them for 10 years.


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Exactly, but the Air Force has relied on FNG's coming out of UPT with a boner to fly something that burns Jet A++ (almost typed JP8) and make a lot of noise. It's usually your 6-8 yr Captains and young Majors who've been around the flag pole enough times to say, "F$ck this shit. I'm going to the airlines.".

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[tac airlifter]

1 hour ago, Chuck17 said:

Pilots have more opportunity and leverage than at any time I've seen in my short career in the service. If they walk, they win; if they stay, dice roll. Guys are turning down incredible opportunities to walk and go get a line number. 

Valid.  For those on the fence as I was a few years ago: I took the money because I weighed the pros and cons of my first decade and decided I wanted more of what I'd done.  However, they sent me to school and staff with no return path to the fight.  Basically, I rolled the dice and lost.  For now.  If I could do it over, fully grasping that AD ultimately is a dice roll no matter your strats or checked boxes, I probably would still roll.     

Maybe you'll get lucky and land a cool job if you stay AD.  Maybe your timing is good. But if you're a fence-sitter don't be deceived into thinking there is a "plan" other than feed human flesh into the assignment grinder and spread it wherever seems good at the moment to whoever happens to be spreading that day.  Buyer beware; stay long enough and you'll roll snake eyes.  On the other hand, if you have a combat itch that can only be scratched in AD, roll those dice and good luck to you!

[Duck]

1 hour ago, Gazmo said:

 

Exactly, but the Air Force has relied on FNG's coming out of UPT with a boner to fly something that burns Jet A++ (almost typed JP8) and make a lot of noise. It's usually your 6-8 yr Captains and young Majors who've been around the flag pole enough times to say, "F$ck this shit. I'm going to the airlines.".

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Exactly my point. They expect the honeymoon phase to last a full 10 years while beating their wife with 6 month non flying deployments, 365s and telling people who can't leave that they should leave if they don't like it...

[Sprkt69]

35 minutes ago, tac airlifter said:

Valid.  For those on the fence as I was a few years ago: I took the money because I weighed the pros and cons of my first decade and decided I wanted more of what I'd done.  However, they sent me to school and staff with no return path to the fight.  Basically, I rolled the dice and lost.  For now.  If I could do it over, fully grasping that AD ultimately is a dice roll no matter your strats or checked boxes, I probably would still roll.     

Maybe you'll get lucky and land a cool job if you stay AD.  Maybe your timing is good. But if you're a fence-sitter don't be deceived into thinking there is a "plan" other than feed human flesh into the assignment grinder and spread it wherever seems good at the moment to whoever happens to be spreading that day.  Buyer beware; stay long enough and you'll roll snake eyes.  On the other hand, if you have a combat itch that can only be scratched in AD, roll those dice and good luck to you!

Don't kid yourself, the Guard and Reserves see plenty of combat too and are arguably the best option for fence sitters. All the mil flying without the AD BS and getting your line number is still an option. If you want to break out your golden knee pads and be somebody, there is that option too. 

[tac airlifter]

8 minutes ago, Sprkt69 said:

Don't kid yourself, the Guard and Reserves see plenty of combat too and are arguably the best option for fence sitters. All the mil flying without the AD BS and getting your line number is still an option. If you want to break out your golden knee pads and be somebody, there is that option too. 

Ok?

WRT guard/reserve: in my platform, they don't.  So that world wasn't part of my calculus.

[Guardian]

Don't kid yourself, the Guard and Reserves see plenty of combat too and are arguably the best option for fence sitters. All the mil flying without the AD BS and getting your line number is still an option. If you want to break out your golden knee pads and be somebody, there is that option too. 

Except for tfi units. They bow down to AD. They don't realize AD needs to treat guard/res good or else dudes leave the next day.


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[Sprkt69]

10 minutes ago, Guardian said:

Except for tfi units. They bow down to AD. They don't realize AD needs to treat guard/res good or else dudes leave the next day.


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Very true. Been there done that. But that's where the freedom of choice allows you to skip the poor units.

[the g-man]

Where have you seen anything pointing to an actual increases in AIP? Keep in mind $1k max....assuming they apply that to the already $840 per month pilots, I'm betting the other lower tiers get a $69 increase which is sh-t in the scheme of things vs inflation.

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Yeah the bulk of flyers fall into $650 in flight pay and in today's dollars is around $1300. The code was last updated in 1989... 1989!

 

 

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[nsplayr]

Fun fact, there are pilots currently in the $650 bracket who were not born yet the last time ACIP was increased. 

[faipmafiaofficial]

Anyone know how much the new BRS continuation bonus will be for pilots?

 

I know it's between 2.5X and 13X your base pay at the 8-12 year mark.  Just didn't know if pilots would get the max if they opted in and took the BRS continuation bonus

 

Edited March 31, 2017 by faipmafiaofficial

[nsplayr]

The services have not announced that critical component of BRS. Assuming they will need to before anyone opts into the new system starting next Jan but who knows, maybe they'll get away with playing the "I have a secret" game...

[flyusaf83]

So the AF is pursuing gimmicky and unworkable solutions instead of actually finding solutions for the actual problems.  How shocking.

Nobody in AF leadership is brave enough or in touch enough to address the institutional problems that are plaguing the AF.  Endless queep. 365s. The PC culture. Shoe clerk-centric policies.  Getting chiefed for having your hands in your jacket pockets when being forced to do a FOD walk at 0700L, 7 hours after my flight landed, when it's 10 F outside (recently happened to me).

I could go on. The thing that bothers me the most is I don't see AF leadership acknowledging these problems, let alone trying to fix them.

Edited March 31, 2017 by flyusaf83
Spelling is hard.