Aviation Continuation Pay (ACP - The Bonus)

[Guardian]

This is the united plan. Tell the truth. "The guy was wrong and disturbed." Then face backlash over the truth and then retreat by trying to identify with those they offended.

Don't get me wrong, I totally agree with united and the CEO. I just also happen to believe Gen Everhart. I have trouble believing that stop loss hasn't been part of the discussion. The generals are reading this forum right now. What's John q public have to say


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[LookieRookie]

"The Air Force feels that implementing a stop-loss policy would cause pilots to flee the Air Force before the door closed, and they won't stick around to see if things improve. "

This tells me the AF will hide stop loss till the last moment so no one can separate before.

 

And I think Everhart was showing an unfiltered, unauthorized view into potential scenarios.

Edited April 12, 2017 by LookieRookie

[Swizzle]

All options are always on the table for the USAF, whatever is in the organization's interest will be considered, maybe not voiced externally, but considered. The crux lay in the signaling, messaging, and advertising (the political parts). Now two different Generals are messaging and staging something different. It's unmistakable retention-messaging is being staged, how it's staged and finally presented matters for a multitude of reasons. They control the narrative, the comm-outflow of AF, not the numbers (i.e. after an individual reaches free agency) or indivual's choices.

Who else here thinks/knows that we are a focus group?! We feed input/feedback into their narrative through this forum, don't doubt it. 

Concerning to me is Gen Goldfein's statement along the lines of getting to what does right look like between pilots, airlines, and Air Force. What is "right"!? (Standby for quote...searching)

Edited April 12, 2017 by Swizzle

[Duck]

I guarantee that General "I mention StopLoss" got a thorough tongue lashing by the CSAF, followed by Grosso being sent in to pick up the pieces. I wonder what the %increase in separation applications happened this past couple days? I talked to a Lt Col who at 18 years says he is getting out now and gonna try and get retirement the hard way. It was just too risky to be forced to stay past 20.


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[Gazmo]

These people need to be rushing ARC units. I'd be willing to bet there are some units desperate enough to take a Lt Col at 18 years. It'd take that Lt Col 5-6 more years in the ANG or Reserves to get an AD retirement. Win-win for everyone.

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[Guest]

4 hours ago, faipmafiaofficial said:

Looks like Grosso doesn't agree with Everhart

https://www.airforcetimes.com/articles/air-force-stop-loss-is-not-on-the-table-in-effort-to-retain-pilots

 

the disturbing part about this is it seems that the Air Force generals aren't even close to being on the same page with each other AND you even have generals acting on their own and talking with the industry about potential measures that aren't even being considered. Unreal

Grosso is the master of spin. How many stars did she get after VSP/TERA/FS lottery bonanza?! Of course stop loss is on the table. They tried to bully us by calling it early, then realized the potential for backlash, but that cat is out of the bag. I love how this leadership class have lost of every shred of integrity. It makes you chuckle every time you hear them talk about AF core values.

[faipmafiaofficial]

1 hour ago, 1111 said:

Grosso is the master of spin. How many stars did she get after VSP/TERA/FS lottery bonanza?! Of course stop loss is on the table. They tried to bully us by calling it early, then realized the potential for backlash, but that cat is out of the bag. I love how this leadership class have lost of every shred of integrity. It makes you chuckle every time you hear them talk about AF core values.

Goldfein backing Grosso today...

https://www.heritage.org/defense/event/rebuilding-air-force-readiness

watch the whole thing but stop loss talk at 17 min mark

[matmacwc]

3 hours ago, Gazmo said:

These people need to be rushing ARC units. I'd be willing to bet there are some units desperate enough to take a Lt Col at 18 years. It'd take that Lt Col 5-6 more years in the ANG or Reserves to get an AD retirement. Win-win for everyone.

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We are doing it, spread the word.  11F's to Tucson, you will love it.

Edited April 12, 2017 by matmacwc

[Guardian]

What's up with the rest of it besides the stop loss talk at min 17?


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[Guardian]

Dude. Can't stand it. If he believed what he was saying then things would be a lot different. He's tap dancing. He put blame on the secretary of the Air Force? You know what would carry a lot of weight. If he was just open and honest about all of this. He's tap dancing and doesn't come out and just flat out say what they are going to do good or bad. And that's why the Air Force is going down. People don't believe in a system that isn't honest with them or trust them enough to give them bad news. Fingers goldfein is a ing politician towing someone else's line instead of trying for real lasting change. The squadrons are broken he says? Who broke them but a CSAF? Then fix them! Empower them. Squadron CCs today are to damn scared of being fired for doing anything but towing the line they are given because that is what they are taught in at ACSC. Ahhhhh. Pisses me off. We are broken. How are we going to fix it? I guess I need to stop complaining so much and become part of the solution. But I am not going to tow there line of everything's ok. Oh and what extra duties have been removed? Not at my base! Active duty, reserve or guard. We all do the same stuff we did before. And we still have to wait for 30 min for a comm guy on the phone to tell me it's not his job to fix a computer


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[Guest]

42 minutes ago, faipmafiaofficial said:

Goldfein backing Grosso today...

https://www.heritage.org/defense/event/rebuilding-air-force-readiness

watch the whole thing but stop loss talk at 17 min mark

WRT their constant flips in messaging and the actions or inactions they are pursuing, how can they expect the flying masses to trust them?

I'll take a line from once Col now 4 star Goldfein: "A perceived lack of trust can lead to all sorts of problems"- Sharing Success-Owning failure Oct 2001.

 

They need to own that mess. They created it and all I see is action upon action illustrating that you (flying community) are not a valued asset and they have no clue who is flying this thing!

[Guardian]

Did gringos should make a song about this mess.


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[17D_guy]

huh... how far it's changed from "you can all be replaced."

[Guardian]

I wonder what Shaw people circa 2008-2010 would have to say about this.


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[ViperStud]

10 minutes ago, Guardian said:

I wonder what Shaw people circa 2008-2010 would have to say about this.


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It's pretty simple. Management waged a war against a culture and won. Some things needed to go, but many others got swept up in the moment. Here we are, years later, and so many of us see this as just another job. When you mort so many good cultural aspects and we end up viewing this as just another 9-5er, don't be surprised when people leave for a better 9-5er. 

A generation of spineless PC enablers (masqueraded as leaders) created this situation. Now they can live with with the aftermath. 

Edited April 13, 2017 by ViperStud

[Swizzle]

5 hours ago, faipmafiaofficial said:

Goldfein backing Grosso today...

https://www.heritage.org/defense/event/rebuilding-air-force-readiness

watch the whole thing but stop loss talk at 17 min mark

I respectfully disagree and see a different message - he is not considering it because Stop Loss is not his to consider, and not his decision to make (his own words and true); however it is in CSAF's lane to advocate for it to who does have authority to consider Stop Loss (i.e. SECDEF and higher). He didn't answer that question of advocacy, instead he mentioned Stop Loss use in case of an emergency - which aviators know can be declared at any moment, as required. The CSAF's comments about pilot shortages being a national crisis could mean emergency..right? Or perhaps I'm irrational...or something.

He's certainly shaping the narrative, and definitely attempting to put-at-ease the masses. But everyone suspects something is brewing (ex. those warning on this forum) and an educated man is anything but at-ease. Freedom is at stake, and there can be no service without self - I have lived that hell and know it's true. Individuals (a 'self' make up our service), it's what makes us strong - diversity in every regard, but I'm a firm believer a great work to life balance is critically important. What is missing is work to personal life balance (too much, time to resurrect the USAF PERSTEMPO trackers and not simply deployed metrics), an energizing work-life culture (yep, it's dead), and small civilian-military pay gap (it's huge).

What gets me is our CSAF is advocating outside of the USAF that we as a nation have a national pilot crisis which is a bit out of his sphere of influence - I agree we do, but would appreciate his/those efforts focused within the USAF. Introspection into the USAF is well within his sphere, why are we going external? Why is that his strategy? What affect does he think he'll get from outside his sphere? Is it simply diversion and informing?

[FlyinGrunt]

Don't get me started on Everhart's screwup.  Ironically, Goldfein and Grosso nailed it: talking about it only makes the fence-sitters run like hell.  But I disagree that a national pilot shortage is outside the CSAF's lane.

 

You can't argue with his numbers.  Even if the airlines took ALL out UPT production, they'd STILL be short.  We have a problem, and if the military has to lead the charge to fix it, so be it.

 

That having been said . . . we sure aren't fixing it on our end.

[General Chang]

Stop Loss always has been (and still is) on the table.  It has to be.  U.S. citizens are depending on military pilots, some reading this forum, to defend this country and their right to L/L/PoH.  We must sustain an appropriate posture to our enemies in this interconnected world.  Stop loss, if invoked, becomes a patriotic duty.  I sincerely hope we have a few patriots left in the pilot ranks.

Your personnelists are working day and night at the highest levels to solve this problem by any other means.  Those personnelists are heroes in my book, and I believe they will be successful.  However, if they are not successful & Stop Loss is invoked, it will be easier, and shorter, if service members remember their core values & jump on the bandwagon.  Young people- do not be disheartened by the negativity on this blog.  The future of our Air Force and our country is bright, and you are the beacons.  Thank you for serving.

[Prozac]

Well it's going to be fun watching this thread explode. Chang you troll, did you just like your own ridiculous post?

[1969RPOL36]

13 minutes ago, General Chang said:

Stop Loss always has been (and still is) on the table.  It has to be.  U.S. citizens are depending on military pilots, some reading this forum, to defend this country and their right to L/L/PoH.  We must sustain an appropriate posture to our enemies in this interconnected world.  Stop loss, if invoked, becomes a patriotic duty.  I sincerely hope we have a few patriots left in the pilot ranks.

Your personnelists are working day and night at the highest levels to solve this problem by any other means.  Those personnelists are heroes in my book, and I believe they will be successful.  However, if they are not successful & Stop Loss is invoked, it will be easier, and shorter, if service members remember their core values & jump on the bandwagon.  Young people- do not be disheartened by the negativity on this blog.  The future of our Air Force and our country is bright, and you are the beacons.  Thank you for serving.

Thanks Dear Leader for reminding me that what is good for the Party is what's good for me

[FUSEPLUG]

<popcorn.gif>

[LookieRookie]

I'm convinced Chang is a line flying Major that just loves to rile everyone up while sipping some 18 year single malt.

[Inertia17]

40 minutes ago, General Chang said:

Stop Loss always has been (and still is) on the table.  It has to be.  U.S. citizens are depending on military pilots, some reading this forum, to defend this country and their right to L/L/PoH.  We must sustain an appropriate posture to our enemies in this interconnected world.  Stop loss, if invoked, becomes a patriotic duty.  I sincerely hope we have a few patriots left in the pilot ranks.

Your personnelists are working day and night at the highest levels to solve this problem by any other means.  Those personnelists are heroes in my book, and I believe they will be successful.  However, if they are not successful & Stop Loss is invoked, it will be easier, and shorter, if service members remember their core values & jump on the bandwagon.  Young people- do not be disheartened by the negativity on this blog.  The future of our Air Force and our country is bright, and you are the beacons.  Thank you for serving.

I'm guessing you *non gender specific individuals* get a propaganda class on those training days every second Wednesday?

EDIT: Can't say 'guys' any more...oops.

Edited April 13, 2017 by Inertia17

[VMFA187]

45 minutes ago, LookieRookie said:

I'm convinced Chang is a line flying Major that just loves to rile everyone up while sipping some 18 year single malt.

Say what you will, that was likely the most entertaining post I've read here.

[RTB]

56 minutes ago, LookieRookie said:

I'm convinced Chang is a line flying Major that just loves to rile everyone up while sipping some 18 year single malt.

2!