Aviation Continuation Pay (ACP - The Bonus)

[08Dawg]

Just heard through the Bomber functional at AFPC...the SECAF is announcing the details of the FY17 bonus tomorrow and the PSDM will be up at 0800 CDT Tuesday.  No details other than there is going to be some quote-unquote good news. 

[ViperStud]

1 hour ago, 08Dawg said:

Just heard through the Bomber functional at AFPC...the SECAF is announcing the details of the FY17 bonus tomorrow and the PSDM will be up at 0800 CDT Tuesday.  No details other than there is going to be some quote-unquote good news. 

Good news for us....or for Big Blue?

[Guest]

The good news will be you'll have a choice: 25k/yr in ACP or $500/month in stop loss. Choose wisely, if you turn down the bonus it'll come with your last year being "boots on the ramp" so you lose your recency.


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[icohftb]

2 hours ago, 08Dawg said:

Just heard through the Bomber functional at AFPC...the SECAF is announcing the details of the FY17 bonus tomorrow and the PSDM will be up at 0800 CDT Tuesday.  No details other than there is going to be some quote-unquote good news. 

People say that it will be the best bonus ever. I think when you see it youll be very impressed. It will be tremendous. Believe me...

[08Dawg]

1 hour ago, icohftb said:

People say that it will be the best bonus ever. I think when you see it youll be very impressed. It will be tremendous. Believe me...

And anyone not an 11x will still be pissed off...copy, continue indentured servitude for The Man...shoulda' worked harder in college!

[Guest]

1 hour ago, ihtfp06 said:

The good news will be you'll have a choice: 25k/yr in ACP or $500/month in stop loss. Choose wisely, if you turn down the bonus it'll come with your last year being "boots on the ramp" so you lose your recency.


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For the older heads and those in the know, how did they accomplish the "boots on the ramp" policy back in the day? Was there a MFR that specified what the policy was or was it some informal agreement at the CC level (Sq, OG, Wg?) that we are going punish the non takers? 

 

And what difficulties do you see ahead, in terms of implementing that policy, if management attempted "boots on ramp 2.0" in the present day?

[HU&W]

Pledge your loyalty or you don't fly

[LookieRookie]

1 hour ago, BeerMan said:

What is a "boots on the ramp" policy?

If you don't take the bonus, the Air Force doesn't let you fly. It happened in the 90s. It was basically the threat that you wouldn't fly until your ADSC ends so good luck getting an airline job being non-current

[icohftb]

14 minutes ago, LookieRookie said:

If you don't take the bonus, the Air Force doesn't let you fly. It happened in the 90s. It was basically the threat that you wouldn't fly until your ADSC ends so good luck getting an airline job being non-current

That would only alienate pilots when the air force needs pilots to fly the line...

...so this will probably happen.

[Guest]

48 minutes ago, icohftb said:

That would only alienate pilots when the air force needs pilots to fly the line...

...so this will probably happen.

I cannot see how management can even think about implementing this with an end strength lower (if not similar) than 1990s numbers . Did the major conflicts of the 1990s (Iraq/Kuwait, Somalia, Haiti, Kosovo and Bosnia) have the same high Ops tempo like GWOT (insert whatever you want to call last 16 years)?

[BFM this]

4 hours ago, ihtfp06 said:

The good news will be you'll have a choice: 25k/yr in ACP or $500/month in stop loss. Choose wisely, if you turn down the bonus it'll come with your last year being "boots on the ramp" so you lose your recency.

Pretty sure this is trolling.  This is the only post, (not source), where I've seen this uttered.

[Herk Driver]

So there were pilots in a fighter squadron that didn't sign the bonus and pilots who did and the squadron, group, or wing commander wouldn't put the non-signers on the schedule? Or they were sent to a non-flying job? Is this urban legend or are there actually guys still around who experienced this?
Never say never, but speaking only from a CAF perspective I think a similar policy today would be impossible to impliment anytime in the next 10 years. You wouldn't be able to fill the daily flying schedule.

I was around when the boots in the ramp policy was around. This is not urban legend. If you didn't sign the bonus (thus tipping your hand that you were getting out) then you were not allowed to fly. You did not place your "boots on the ramp."

I, like the post above, think this is classic trolling. I could be wrong but hope I am not.


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[Hacker]

49 minutes ago, BeerMan said:

Is this urban legend or are there actually guys still around who experienced this?

Most definitely not urban legend, but there probably isn't anyone on AD who actually served with anyone who this happened to.

I personally know three guys who were labeled "BENT" (Bonus Eligible, Non-Taker) in the early 90s and were subjected to "boots on the ramp" restriction.

Edited June 5, 2017 by Hacker

[Danny Noonin]

Is this urban legend or are there actually guys still around who experienced this?

 

It absolutely happened.

 

 

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[xaarman]

I read an ACSC paper that was posted here that covered the BENT program. It was sold that there were limited resources/flying hours, and priority was given to those who made the commitment to serve beyond their initial ADSC, or something like that.

Reading the ACSC papers are fascinating. Each time, the AF has gotten through it by not changing anything, but riding it out until the next economic downtown. Notes are mine from random scrolling through.

 

1988: https://www.dtic.mil/dtic/tr/fulltext/u2/a192791.pdf

"USAF pilot retention has once again decreased to an alarmingly low level. The combination of factors present in the current situation--large pay inequity, the perception of reduced benefits due to constrained budgets, and lucrative opportunities in the civilian economy--has the potential to make this pilot retention crisis the worst ever in for the Air Force"

1993: https://www.dtic.mil/dtic/tr/fulltext/u2/a270298.pdf 

"An exit survey of pilots in 1979 showed job satisfaction, geographic stability, little say in future assignments, job opportunities, and senior Air Force leadership as the most often cited reasons for separation".  

"For example, on one occasion the Air Force issued leather flying jackets to currently rated pilots in an effort to increase morale. Some have proposed a "dual track" Sysyem for pilots which would allow th 'pilots who want to concentrate on flying to avoid some non-flying duties typically required of pilots desiring promotion and advancement in the Air Force. "

"In an effort to improve the retention of experienced senior pilots, there have been proposals to develop a two track system for pilots. This system, often referred to as the Dual Track system, would allow pilots to remain in a  career track similar to the one they are in currently, or alternatively enter a track where they would be a pilot  "specialist." Air Force Major David Evans explains that a  pilot in the specialist track ". . .would no longer be considered for promotion, PME, or other non-flying related programs and would retain his current rank for the remainder of his service". "

 

RAND Study in 2000: www.dtic.mil/get-tr-doc/pdf?AD=ADA533214

The United States Air Force is facing the largest peacetime pilot shortage in its history. This report examines the origin and nature of the shortage along with retention issues, and shows that the real problem is experience levels in operational units.

 

etc etc.

 

The more things change, the more they stay the same.

 

Oh wait, another one! 1999: https://www.dtic.mil/dtic/tr/fulltext/u2/a397320.pdf

Deployments are a significant factor in high operations tempo for the military. Another factor related to the end of the Cold War and operations tempo is the downsizing that has occurred. Since 1989, the USAF has reduced its overall strength from almost 600,000 airmen to less than 400,000 in 1998, a 33 percent decrease in end strength.13 The smaller force combined with the higher operations tempo impacts the individual airman directly by increasing personnel tempo.

Today's economy also contributes to USAF retention problems. As a result of the healthy economy, the unemployment rate is only 4.3 percent, a 30-year low.14 The result is competition for employees. One particular labor market where competition for employees is especially fierce has been the market for pilots. This market has been competitive because there has been a hiring boom by the airlines in recent years, not only because of the healthy economy, but also because of the need to replace a large number of airline pilots reaching mandatory retirement age.

..

USAF senior leadership at the February 98 CORONA conference identified this high operations tempo as the primary reason USAF pilots separate from the service.

..

There are a variety of USAF initiatives intended to improve aspects of quality of life and thereby increase retention. These initiatives are intended to address two of the reasons highlighted in chapter two, personnel tempo and compensation. 

 

Edited June 5, 2017 by xaarman

[sqwatch]

I read an ACSC paper that was posted here that covered the BENT program. It was sold that there were limited resources/flying hours, and priority was given to those who made the commitment to serve beyond their initial ADSC, or something like that.
Reading the ACSC papers are fascinating. Each time, the AF has gotten through it by not changing anything, but riding it out until the next economic downtown. Notes are mine from random scrolling through.
 
1988: https://www.dtic.mil/dtic/tr/fulltext/u2/a192791.pdf
"USAF pilot retention has once again decreased to an alarmingly low level. The combination of factors present in the current situation--large pay inequity, the perception of reduced benefits due to constrained budgets, and lucrative opportunities in the civilian economy--has the potential to make this pilot retention crisis the worst ever in for the Air Force"
1993: https://www.dtic.mil/dtic/tr/fulltext/u2/a270298.pdf 
"An exit survey of pilots in 1979 showed job satisfaction, geographic stability, little say in future assignments, job opportunities, and senior Air Force leadership as the most often cited reasons for separation".  
"For example, on one occasion the Air Force issued leather flying jackets to currently rated pilots in an effort to increase morale. Some have proposed a "dual track" Sysyem for pilots which would allow th 'pilots who want to concentrate on flying to avoid some non-flying duties typically required of pilots desiring promotion and advancement in the Air Force. "
"In an effort to improve the retention of experienced senior pilots, there have been proposals to develop a two track system for pilots. This system, often referred to as the Dual Track system, would allow pilots to remain in a  career track similar to the one they are in currently, or alternatively enter a track where they would be a pilot  "specialist." Air Force Major David Evans explains that a  pilot in the specialist track ". . .would no longer be considered for promotion, PME, or other non-flying related programs and would retain his current rank for the remainder of his service". "
 
RAND Study in 2000: www.dtic.mil/get-tr-doc/pdf?AD=ADA533214
The United States Air Force is facing the largest peacetime pilot shortage in its history. This report examines the origin and nature of the shortage along with retention issues, and shows that the real problem is experience levels in operational units.
 
etc etc.
 
The more things change, the more they stay the same.
 
Oh wait, another one! 1999: https://www.dtic.mil/dtic/tr/fulltext/u2/a397320.pdf
Deployments are a significant factor in high operations tempo for the military. Another factor related to the end of the Cold War and operations tempo is the downsizing that has occurred. Since 1989, the USAF has reduced its overall strength from almost 600,000 airmen to less than 400,000 in 1998, a 33 percent decrease in end strength.13 The smaller force combined with the higher operations tempo impacts the individual airman directly by increasing personnel tempo.
Today's economy also contributes to USAF retention problems. As a result of the healthy economy, the unemployment rate is only 4.3 percent, a 30-year low.14 The result is competition for employees. One particular labor market where competition for employees is especially fierce has been the market for pilots. This market has been competitive because there has been a hiring boom by the airlines in recent years, not only because of the healthy economy, but also because of the need to replace a large number of airline pilots reaching mandatory retirement age.
..
USAF senior leadership at the February 98 CORONA conference identified this high operations tempo as the primary reason USAF pilots separate from the service.
..
There are a variety of USAF initiatives intended to improve aspects of quality of life and thereby increase retention. These initiatives are intended to address two of the reasons highlighted in chapter two, personnel tempo and compensation. 
 

Then what fixed retention problems during those in-between years? Did things improve (leadership, pay, etc), or did pilots simply not have other opportunities outside of the air force? If it is the later, this would give credence to the argument that we've heard from the general level that retention is economy based.





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[xaarman]

From what I can tell, nothing really fixed retention (BENT give a bit of a bump IIRC [and leather jackets /s])... the USAF waited long enough for the economy to take a shit and/or airlines stopping hiring. Unfortunately, my google-fu skills tell me people didn't write ACSC papers on high retention years. The FY16 Rated Retention Report has all the numbers and there is a direct correlation between airline hiring waves and retention.

 

 

Edited June 5, 2017 by xaarman

[sqwatch]

From what I can tell, nothing really fixed retention (leather jackets, and BENT give a bit of a bump IIRC)... the USAF waited long enough for the economy to take a shit and/or airlines stopping hiring. Unfortunately, my google-fu skills tell me people didn't write ACSC papers on high retention years. The FY16 Rated Retention Report has all the numbers and there is a direct correlation between airline hiring waves and retention.
 
 

I agree. As much as I hate green dot training, UAVs and staff tours, the realities of the military (deployments, staff jobs, etc) won't go away. Nor will the AF ever compete (rightfully so, IMO) with the civilian market for jobs.

Much like a horse-pill of penicillin needs to be swallowed after a date with bqzip's mom, so does the realities of the military. I'm all for more efficient management, but when the airlines pay like they do for the amount of work they expect, the trend will continue.

But what do I care, I'm in the guard.


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[xaarman]

I agree, by the time O-4 rolls around, one should know the realities/requirements of the Air Force. The bureaucracy of military isn't changing, no matter what lip service HAF A1/AFPC/CSAF etc say they're doing.

 

I take that back... it'll change when DOPMA changes... but as a soon-to-be 2x passed over Captain, the other side is calling my name and I wish all those who stay the best!

[SocialD]

6 hours ago, sqwatch said:

Then what fixed retention problems during those in-between years? Did things improve (leadership, pay, etc), or did pilots simply not have other opportunities outside of the air force? If it is the later, this would give credence to the argument that we've heard from the general level that retention is economy based.

There were major airline furloughs in the early 90s and obviously the early 2000s. Also, there were a few airlines that went away during this timeframe.  Lot's of stories of guys going back on AD in the early-mid 90s and not long after 9/11 after being furloughed.    

The early 2000 furloughs were particularly bad and the military reaped the benefits.  The ARC was flooded with guys wanting days & dollars.  For 15 years lesdership had free reign to abuse their resources.  Now that the pendulum has swung the other way,  it seems some leadership is taking a while to recage their brains.  I saw a post on Facebook where one fighter squadron is requiring SEVEN (7) days a month from their pilots, with one of them being a no fly/queep day!  WTF!  I'm not even sure how they have all the paydays to make that happen.  I'm guessing they mostly fill their vacancies with AD guys who think it's not a bad deal  (I'm sure it's way better than AD).  Then they become part timers with other jobs and realize how ridiculous 7 days/month for a part timer is and they look for other ways to finish their 20.  Anyway, it seems their leadership is doing just as xaarman says...

[Chuck17]

9 hours ago, xaarman said:

I read an ACSC paper that was posted here that covered the BENT program. It was sold that there were limited resources/flying hours, and priority was given to those who made the commitment to serve beyond their initial ADSC, or something like that.

Reading the ACSC papers are fascinating. Each time, the AF has gotten through it by not changing anything, but riding it out ...

The more things change, the more they stay the same.

History is a great guide in this case. I'd keep collective expectations low...

The mantra at the squadron levels (this is WORST EVER crisis, everyone is leaving, etc) is largely absent in the halls of HQ. Neither side of the issue has a complete picture, resulting in GOs talking past the line pilots telling them how it is in the trenches... looking past most input from the line (no matter how many initiatives are being worked). 

This has happened before, and there's no clamoring rush to fix it based on the USAFs previous experience. Given some of the economic projections for the next 2-4 years, maybe they're onto something to simply remain patient and make minor concessions.

It makes for lousy morale in the squadrons though...

Chuck

Edited June 5, 2017 by Chuck17
Spelling

[ThreeHoler]

But Chuck, "the pilot retention crisis is the AF's #1 priority." Or so A3 says. They even made a "pilot crisis team" or something.

[Bergman]

Rejoice!  They've fixed the pilot shortage with this bonus offer!  Or, the guys who were staying in anyway just got richer.  

 

I think Goldfein's quote was pretty good, and the closest thing I've seen in a while to a GO actually valuing pilots. 

“While history doesn't always repeat...it often rhymes,” he said. “Defending the homeland, owning the high ground and projecting power with our allies abroad takes skilled and professional pilots who make the incredibly hard look easy.

Having said that...RUN!  If someone has more than 2-3 years to go, I honestly can't imagine a scenario where I would pass up airline seniority and risk a 365 or multiple-179 gangbang in the 17-20 year of service window.  Until actual performance proves otherwise, this is all eyewash bullshit.

Quote

WASHINGTON (AFNS) -- As part of its retention efforts, the Air Force released details on the fiscal year 2017 Aviation Bonus Program (AvB) June 5, 2017. This year’s program implements an increase in maximum bonus amounts authorized in the fiscal 2017 National Defense Authorization Act in addition to more flexibility in contract lengths.

The program, combined with additional non-monetary initiatives, is part of a holistic approach to improve readiness and capacity by increasing retention of experienced aviators.

"We hope this new approach will make it easier for more Airmen to stay in the service," said Secretary of the Air Force Heather Wilson. "The country needs them."

This year Congress authorized the Air Force to increase the annual AvB cap from $25,000 per year to $35,000 per year and has mandated that bonus amounts be based on a business case analysis to determine greatest need and appropriate monetary amounts. 

“Actual bonus levels were determined by considering current and projected manning, current and projected retention levels, replacement training costs, and replacement training time,” said Lt. Gen. Gina Grosso, the Air Force manpower, personnel and services deputy chief of staff, “These are the same factors used to determine bonus needs across the Air Force, such as selective re-enlistment bonuses and critical skills retention bonuses.”

Additionally, the fiscal 2017 AvB contract options include one-year, two-year, and five-year options for all eligible 11X aviators, with the amounts tiered by the most critical needs. Bomber, special ops, and mobility pilots have a nine-year contract option while fighter pilots have nine-year and 24 years of aviation service (13-year maximum) options. RPA pilots, along with combat systems operators from various flying communities, are eligible for five-year contracts at varying amounts, tiered by critical needs.

The Air Force’s strategy to mitigate the pilot shortage consists of non-monetary and monetary initiatives in three main areas: production of pilots, reducing demand/need for pilots in non-flying positions, and increasing pilot retention. Some of the non-monetary initiatives include reducing the demand signal for non-flying assignments, headquarters staff positions and developmental opportunities; creating flexible options for developmental assignments that will reduce involuntary separations and provide flexibility for Airmen and families; reductions in additional duties; addition of contracted administrative support in operational units and more hands-on consultation with base leadership when choosing who will fill various assignments. 

The Air Force is also looking at additional monetary incentives for aviation, especially those targeted at mid-career aviators. The fiscal 2017 NDAA provided authorization to increase Aviation Incentive Pay, commonly known as monthly flight pay, which the service plans to increase this summer.

“One of my favorite quotes comes from Gen. Hap Arnold during the worst days of the daylight bombing campaign in Europe,” said Air Force Chief of Staff Gen. David L. Goldfein. “He said ‘the problem with airpower is we make it look too easy.’” 

“While history doesn't always repeat...it often rhymes,” he said. “Defending the homeland, owning the high ground and projecting power with our allies abroad takes skilled and professional pilots who make the incredibly hard look easy. I appreciate the support from Congress to offer our pilot force increased compensation for them and their families who serve beside them."

For complete eligibility requirements and application instructions, visit the myPers website at https://mypers.af.mil and enter "aviation bonus program" in the search window.

Edited June 5, 2017 by Bergman

[Homestar]

Yay!

Now, if they could fix the problem of fly pay that would be great. 

[icohftb]

4 hours ago, SocialD said:

There were major airline furloughs in the early 90s and obviously the early 2000s. Also, there were a few airlines that went away during this timeframe.  Lot's of stories of guys going back on AD in the early-mid 90s and not long after 9/11 after being furloughed.    

The early 2000 furloughs were particularly bad and the military reaped the benefits.  The ARC was flooded with guys wanting days & dollars.  For 15 years lesdership had free reign to abuse their resources.  Now that the pendulum has swung the other way,  it seems some leadership is taking a while to recage their brains.  I saw a post on Facebook where one fighter squadron is requiring SEVEN (7) days a month from their pilots, with one of them being a no fly/queep day!  WTF!  I'm not even sure how they have all the paydays to make that happen.  I'm guessing they mostly fill their vacancies with AD guys who think it's not a bad deal  (I'm sure it's way better than AD).  Then they become part timers with other jobs and realize how ridiculous 7 days/month for a part timer is and they look for other ways to finish their 20.  Anyway, it seems their leadership is doing just as xaarman says...

Maybe im clueless but isnt BMC around 6 sorties a month depending on the community?