Aviation Continuation Pay (ACP - The Bonus)

[war007afa]

4 hours ago, ihtfp06 said:

That goes against the spirit of our second core value!!!!


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The minute the Air Force:

a) ...puts Integrity First;

2) ...starts to realize the "Self" means a person is involved;

and d) ...becomes Excellent at SOMETHING with regards to this shit show;

...then I'd expect others to reciprocate back to the Service and stop voting with their feet.  This one-way covfefe (which has lasted for nearly 3 DECADES, for those keeping score at home) has gone on long enough.

I've worked in this current job for a few years in the Puzzle Palace.  I've learned promotability drives action and inaction.  MOST of your GOFO members are at the summit of their careers.  What drives many of them is achieving escape velocity to move on to the next job or to maximize retirement years.  The very last thing many of them want is someone making waves in their portfolios since they can't go any higher.  Kind of ironic considering our greatest Air Force heritage is "change"...

[ViperStud]

On the ANG/AFRES side of the house, is the verbiage any different from previous years with respect to curtailing your AGR tour and simply paying back any "unearned" bonus?  Specifically, confirm it's still not an ADSC, and if you curtail ARG orders the bonus won't keep you from resigning that AGR spot? 

I see what the PSDM says: pays in arrears on the anniversary of contract signing, designates AFRC/A3 as waiver authority for curtailing orders...blah, blah, blah.  For those that have been in this situation in the past is the verbiage the same or is there some attempt to make it act more like an ADSC this time around?

[hatedont]

I sold out fellas. Submitted my 2 year extension for AvB with 3 years to go until retirement in November.

Thank you my airline brothers for telling me not to bite last year on a 5 year deal. I'll PCS in 2019 with one year to go until retirement. I feel a dance coming on...

 

Edited June 8, 2017 by hatedont

[MooseAg03]

If dudes are transferring GI Bill and winding up with an ADSC that extends beyond UPT, you're doing it wrong. If you have kids, you should submit the transfer the day you hit 6 years in.

I still don't see a compelling reason to stay, even with the new bonus. We are paid less relative to inflation than guys doing this job 15 years ago and the new bonus doesn't even correct that for 11Ms. No thanks.


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[WTFAF]

I sold out fellas. Submitted my 2 year extension for AvB with 3 years to go until retirement in November.

Well shit, that sucks for the rest of us still on AD.

[ThreeHoler]

Big Blue would be smart to kill all non-vol 365s and offer targeted bonuses for 365 volunteers. Kind of like the airlines do for oversold flights. 
Who wants a Baghdad 365 for $15k?  No takers?  How about $20k?  $30?  And so on. 
Take the non vol 365 heinosity off the table, increase flight pay significantly for all flyers while also reducing home station queep and they might have a chance to keep a few folks. Someone who wants the cash will eventually bite on the 365 as the dollar amount goes up.  FAR cheaper than dumping cash at dudes serving concurrent ADSCs. 

HAF/A3 is talking about this basic idea. No idea if it will ever come to fruition but they say they are talking about it.

Supposedly also talking about a review of all "pilot-required" 365s.

[pawnman]

28 minutes ago, WTFAF said:

 

Well shit, that sucks for the rest of us still on AD.

 

Because hatedont is staying for two more years, or because it will nudge the take rates up?

[WTFAF]

Because hatedont is staying for two more years, or because it will nudge the take rates up?

 

Because he claims to be staying. I could give two shits about the overall take rate. They'll likely nudge up and the Fingers' of the AF will pat themselves on the back while the rest of us just shake our heads.

 

[Motofalcon]

I imagine overall the take rates will go up - I'm probably gonna take a 1-year, because I have additional adsc for an airframe switch, and I have to stay anyway - might as well take the money. However, I bet if we looked closer, there's gonna be a lot of 1- and 2- year takers, and very few of the 5-, 9-, or 13-year takers. The AF probably won't show those numbers, because it will highlight that long term retention is still a problem. They'll just show that overall the take rate is higher than last year. 

[3PAARO]

3 hours ago, ThreeHoler said:

Supposedly also talking about a review of all "pilot-required" 365s.

OH boy...sounds like code for converting them to "12X required".

That should work out lie an absolute champ, because we apparently only need 22x 12X's anyway.

 

[Motofalcon]

Here's a question, since I am actually considering making a deal with the devil:

When does the ADSC start?  The only thing I can find is in the PSDM:

"AvB agreements will be effective on the later of the two following dates:

Officer's FY2017 eligibility date

Day officer applies for the agreement"

So since I am already past my UPT adsc, does that mean the day I submit my application (as soon as tomorrow) is when my 1 year starts?  Just don't want to submit, and then in two months when the form has been screwed up & corrected multiple times, and then finally signed by me, THAT'S when my extra year starts.

 

[Homestar]

Just now, Motofalcon said:

 

So since I am already past my UPT adsc, does that mean the day I submit my application (as soon as tomorrow) is when my 1 year starts?  Just don't want to submit, and then in two months when the form has been screwed up & corrected multiple times, and then finally signed by me, THAT'S when my extra year starts.

 

The date is the first date your application is accepted.

[pawnman]

5 hours ago, 3PAARO said:

OH boy...sounds like code for converting them to "12X required".

That should work out lie an absolute champ, because we apparently only need 22x 12X's anyway.

 

Well, they won't have very many 12X with a bonus commitment.

[di1630]

I want to know who the first dumb bastard is that accepts the 13 year option.

After 20 yrs you get a ~50k per year bonus for doing nothing.




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[Guest]

I want to know who the first dumb bastard is that accepts the 13 year option.

After 20 yrs you get a ~50k per year bonus for doing nothing.




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Probably someone who has aspirations to make O-6. If they're twice passed over they can get out of the bonus ADSC and retire.


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[sling-it-17]

as someone who is coming up on eligibility soon....this is weak. I see like many have mentioned, a lot of 1-2 yr bonus takers running with their current ADSC commitments. No real change. People in the flying community want to talk about wanting more money as a bad thing. I don't think so and I totally agree it is the easiest thing to fix right now, but its not an either or. Flyers deserve both!!!!! A great bonus that makes them feel appreciated and also the better QOL and QOS talking points we have all heard. But we all know talk is cheap, so until then I want real bonus improvement, not a failed attempt to keep up with inflation.....sad. I also looked into the flight pay approval in the NSDA in section 613 i believe--flight pay can go up to 1k. So thats a 150 bump from the current 850....wow!!!!! smh! Apparently they are implementing this sometime this summer. The question is this: How are we letting fighter pilots that costs 6 million a piece to create walk away. Bc we want to quibble over a 10k/ year bonus bump when it should be atleast a 75k/yr to show they are appreciated  while the AF gets the other stuff fixed....The 11M community is full steam ahead to the pilot shortages of 11F with no improvements in sight. Looks like i might be a 1-2 yr bonus taker too:) I see this getting worse, especially with no current changes in the FY 18 budget proposal...smh. In all, we COULD have both, but I guess the AF is waiting out the economy like in the past....With all major carriers hiring 6-700 pilots a year for the next decade---bold move cotton.

[sqwatch]

as someone who is coming up on eligibility soon....this is weak. I see like many have mentioned, a lot of 1-2 yr bonus takers running with their current ADSC commitments. No real change. People in the flying community want to talk about wanting more money as a bad thing. I don't think so and I totally agree it is the easiest thing to fix right now, but its not an either or. Flyers deserve both!!!!! A great bonus that makes them feel appreciated and also the better QOL and QOS talking points we have all heard. But we all know talk is cheap, so until then I want real bonus improvement, not a failed attempt to keep up with inflation.....sad. I also looked into the flight pay approval in the NSDA in section 613 i believe--flight pay can go up to 1k. So thats a 150 bump from the current 850....wow!!!!! smh! Apparently they are implementing this sometime this summer. The question is this: How are we letting fighter pilots that costs 6 million a piece to create walk away. Bc we want to quibble over a 10k/ year bonus bump when it should be atleast a 75k/yr to show they are appreciated  while the AF gets the other stuff fixed....The 11M community is full steam ahead to the pilot shortages of 11F with no improvements in sight. Looks like i might be a 1-2 yr bonus taker too:) I see this getting worse, especially with no current changes in the FY 18 budget proposal...smh. In all, we COULD have both, but I guess the AF is waiting out the economy like in the past....With all major carriers hiring 6-700 pilots a year for the next decade---bold move cotton.

So it's about the money?


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[Duck]

My perspective is that if they COMPLETELY fixed the QOL/culture/toxic leadership, etc. They wouldn't have to pay people to stay (or pay much). Conversely, if they decided to keep going the way things are, they could fix the problem by paying their way out of it. Something like a $1million upfront bonus and I almost guaran-damn-tee you that even someone as cynical as I would have to rethink my plans. So since you really can't do either to the extreme the best bet is to make a concerted effort to fix the things that we have been squawking about for the last 10 years and up the bonus to grab the fence-sitters.


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[ColoradoAviator]

I see like many have mentioned, a lot of 1-2 yr bonus takers running with their current ADSC commitments.

The 1-2 year option may be a boon for those seeking the airlines, especially if they are non-current or not competitive for a legacy carrier at the end of their UPT ADSC. Those folks could sling gear for a regional for $38K/year or keep flying for Big Blue for $150K/year with the bonus. I know which one I'd choose to build my resume, especially if I was in a line flying squadron.

A 1 year bonus ADSC would preserve the 7-day option for a PCS while keeping the 365 risk (window) small. Thoughts?

[MooseAg03]

The 1-2 year option may be a boon for those seeking the airlines, especially if they are non-current or not competitive for a legacy carrier at the end of their UPT ADSC. Those folks could sling gear for a regional for $38K/year or keep flying for Big Blue for $150K/year with the bonus. I know which one I'd choose to build my resume, especially if I was in a line flying squadron.

A 1 year bonus ADSC would preserve the 7-day option for a PCS while keeping the 365 risk (window) small. Thoughts?

Agreed, but still very vulnerable to a non-flying 179 which would eat up most of that year and not give much additional flight time to increase competitiveness for the majors. As stated above, your SURF will show your bonus ADSC and thus advertise your level of commitment to upper management.


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[Dogs-N-Guns]

2 hours ago, MooseAg03 said:

Agreed, but still very vulnerable to a non-flying 179 which would eat up most of that year and not give much additional flight time to increase competitiveness for the majors. As stated above, your SURF will show your bonus ADSC and thus advertise your level of commitment to upper management.

Wouldn't the lack of any bonus ADSC on your SURF send the same message? If you have a 1-2 yr PCS ADSC might as well take the money.

[MooseAg03]

True, but my lack of ADSC will also shortly be followed by the setting of a separation date. I would only consider a one year bonus if it was $50k


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[FlyinGrunt]

We talked about it at KCVS, given the state of affairs.  I said 500K, after taxes, to stay at Cannon.  Per year.

300K after taxes even if you got me to Hurby.

I then outlined, based on nominal cost to train a new "pilot" (new CP) to replace me, that offering a bonus bringing pay to 300K a year for IP/EPs would actually save the Air Force money.

To my knowledge, no one listened.  

I'm voting with my feet.  Please allow me to illustrate with a slightly modified quote from Braveheart: "You've been so busy squabbling for the scraps from [the Air Force's] table that you've missed your God-given right to something better!"

[FourFans]

1 hour ago, FlyinGrunt said:

I'm voting with my feet.  Please allow me to illustrate with a slightly modified quote from Braveheart: "You've been so busy squabbling for the scraps from [the Air Force's] table that you've missed your God-given right to something better!"

This.

[sling-it-17]

On 6/11/2017 at 11:21 AM, sqwatch said:

So it's about the money?


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Yes in regards to its the quickest way to show real appreciation and possibly signal real change is coming. It will "buy" some time while the other initiatives are being fixed. Its not QOL/QOS fixes OR a better bonus, but this is how some try to frame the argument. I want big blue to show how valued aviators are and also fix the squadron/ops issues (but this one will take some time to see). But to someone's point earlier, it is very clear they are trying to do the bare minimum to just get over the min retention metric they are trying to hit. Crazy talk to get too many people willing to stay in!!! Cant have that! But with the current environment it actually is crazy to think that we would come close to have pilots wanting to stay in over the min retention level needed. In my squadron, of a lot of guys coming up on the decision (20-30 Majors) , I would say 10-15% are saying they are staying in. I hear some saying maybe a 1 yr bonus concurrent with their PCS ADSC. THAT'S IT. My advice is to everyone to not take the 5-9 yr bonus because (take the 1-2 with the option of a re-up bonus), the AF is going to have to come to the table with more in the next 2-3 yrs bc this is weak and has not even caught up to inflation---- if your wanting/willing to stay in that is! 

Money is not everything, I agree--but last time I checked pilots aren't jumping ship to make pennies in 3 yrs with the airlines....more to the tune of 150-200k a yr. Money will always be in the equation when people have families to think about. Especially when they have already served their country for 12 years.