Aviation Continuation Pay (ACP - The Bonus)

[Champ Kind]

making around $6K additional right now.

A year....?

[SurelySerious]

36 minutes ago, LookieRookie said:

 major at the end of his UPT ADSC would be making around $6K additional right now.

$6k/month?

[matmacwc]

On 4/18/2018 at 12:03 PM, akang2006 said:

AFRC has allegedly released their 2018 pilot bonus to include ARTs. Any word on ANG?

I don’t know about 2018 specifically but th ANG ART bonus has been a thing for over a year.  It can bump the higher step ARTS into senior FO at a major range.  I don’t think $200k+ is that difficult

Edited April 20, 2018 by matmacwc

[cragspider]

1 hour ago, SurelySerious said:

$6k/month?

Yeah that’s my ?, is a a month or a year. Cause it wouldn’t surprise me if they made it 6k a year. But an extra 6k a month would be nice. 

[jazzdude]

It's tied to industry compensation and the algorithm is ran yearly.  So if the economy tanks, the pay tanks. The example (separate from VCSAF) given was a major at the end of his UPT ADSC would be making around $6K additional right now.

So what are they going to use for industry standard compensation? Include regional pay scales? ACMI pay scales? Pt 135? Different pays for crew qual?

I can just see it now- your (AMC pilot) pay is similar to Atlas Air, but you have a tax advantage with tax free months/BAH, and per diem, and a retirement plan, and medical, and you both pretty much do on demand cargo to pretty much the same places, soooo...

[neontico]

$6k/month would be epic.

Key phrase is, ”needs congressional approval” lol.  That always goes well...

[Skitzo]

RUMINT/more than: The bonus/flight pay is going away and to be replaced with professional pay FY20 ala doctors.
VCSAF briefed it to UPT IPs at RND last Friday and the proposal was "approved" by SECAF the week prior, now it needs congressional approval.
The pay never deceases with TAFSC unlike flight pay. You keep it as long as youre a core 11x no matter what the billet. It's tied to industry compensation and the algorithm is ran yearly.  So if the economy tanks, the pay tanks. The example (separate from VCSAF) given was a major at the end of his UPT ADSC would be making around $6K additional right now.

So they can take away what I’ve signed up for and my commitment is gone?

[Boomer6]

8 minutes ago, Skitzo said:

 

So they can take away what I’ve signed up for and my commitment is gone?

The question was asked if you've already signed up for the bonus do you keep the bonus and get the professional pay. The answer was, "Yes, you will get both." with a follow-up of "we know there's going to be a mutiny if we try and take the bonus money away from people so a small number of people will end up getting both." Or at least that what I heard from a guy that knows a guy..

[tac airlifter]

4 minutes ago, Boomer6 said:

The question was asked if you've already signed up for the bonus do you keep the bonus and get the professional pay. The answer was, "Yes, you will get both." with a follow-up of "we know there's going to be a mutiny if we try and take the bonus money away from people so a small number of people will end up getting both." Or at least that what I heard from a guy that knows a guy..

Thank you for the Intel, but frankly I have a tough time believing that.  Air Force has nickel and dimed me my entire career, tough to believe they’re capable of anything else.

[Boomer6]

4 minutes ago, tac airlifter said:

Thank you for the Intel, but frankly I have a tough time believing that.  Air Force has nickel and dimed me my entire career, tough to believe they’re capable of anything else.

I have a hard time believing it too. The only thing that makes me think it might happen that way is because of the negative repercussions that big blue would have to deal with if they went back on either the bonus, ie no more 13 year commitment and bros running each other over to get out the door, or not providing professional pay to individuals simply because they agreed to serve their country for another 13 years. Both scenarios are not the kind of publicity the AF needs right now. In either case, those on the fence and the younger guys would see it as one more reason to get out, and the people answering this question know that. That being said this is all based on using sound logic, so I wouldn't be surprised if that's not what happens.

[LookieRookie]

8 hours ago, Champ Kind said:

A year....?

$6k/month.

 

[AlphaMikeFoxtrot]

FY20 is a year and a half away. Much can change between now and then. Did the VCSAF mention offering the bonus this year and next? Or is it understood to be dead with the “chance” congress will approve something well into the future?

[hindsight2020]

AFRC AGR bonus for FY18 is 35K/yr throttable between 1 thru 3 year contracts, no apparent discount for renewal contract versus initial, which is a change from previous years. Also, everybody gets the 35K up to 24 YAS, which was the other big change. ART bonus is 18K/yr with one year minimum to a maximum contract length to 25YAS.

All in all, thanks for the free money Blue, but it's not changing the calculus of those who are intent on getting airline jobs. Once they get the airline job, they'll cash this bonus, but not a day before. Not sure how this changes anything in the AFRC. The TR invol IA are absolutely killing morale and retention down here, fix that instead. There's no pay problem here (well, TRs getting their flight pay still jacked up is a problem), only a QOL one, and its costing them the kitty, just like the regAF.

As to them going to a dedicated career field incentive pay on a year to year float index, to the tune of 6K/mo increase over today's water line? ROFL. You guys crack me up. 

 

 

[war007afa]

This is actually a proposal that makes sense to me. Align the program with something like the doctors (which unlike the airlines, we can make up for using the economy) and pay accordingly.  And the number being aligned with the market actually may move the needle for a few folks. It still doesn’t change block time or quality of life issues, but it’s a start. 

[hindsight2020]

7 hours ago, war007afa said:

This is actually a proposal that makes sense to me. Align the program with something like the doctors (which unlike the airlines, we can make up for using the economy) and pay accordingly.  And the number being aligned with the market actually may move the needle for a few folks. It still doesn’t change block time or quality of life issues, but it’s a start. 

What do you mean "unlike" the airlines? That's not what @LookieRookie posted. He said the brief specifically mentioned pay that's re-assessed EVERY YEAR based on market indices specific to your civilian equivalent . 

I want zero to do with my hard-pay indexed to airline hiring. Soft pay, knock yourself out, but not hard-pay. That's why I don't support going to the doctor model for a 'pylet'. This skillset is simply not that market resilient in the civilian world. 

But this is all to do about nothing. This proposal has fvck all chance of getting passed by Congress. Stop loss has a higher chance of happening in earnest on FY20 than this pipedream. Either way, we're kind of a captive audience here in the mil side. The only play is to exit stage.

 

Edited April 21, 2018 by hindsight2020

[jazzdude]

I'd rather just see either the bonus or flight pay go up, and not be indexed to the economy. Times are good now, but there's no guarantee how long that'll last.

[Homestar]

23 hours ago, Boomer6 said:

The question was asked if you've already signed up for the bonus do you keep the bonus and get the professional pay. The answer was, "Yes, you will get both." with a follow-up of "we know there's going to be a mutiny if we try and take the bonus money away from people so a small number of people will end up getting both." Or at least that what I heard from a guy that knows a guy..

If you like your bonus you can keep your bonus. 

[raimius]

$6k/mo is equivalent to a $72k/yr bonus...without a fixed ADSC.  I doubt it!

Big Blue would not suddenly give that good a deal.  I'd expect stop loss and 365s first.

[SFG]

2 minutes ago, raimius said:

$6k/mo is equivalent to a $72k/yr bonus...without a fixed ADSC.  I doubt it!

Big Blue would not suddenly give that good a deal.  I'd expect stop loss and 365s first.

It's actually pretty smart... pays enough to keep people in who have done all the calculations and understand the kind of QOL that airline pay is offering them,

...then, when airline hiring slows to a drip, so does the professional pay. Genius.

[Gazmo]

AFRC AGR bonus for FY18 is 35K/yr throttable between 1 thru 3 year contracts, no apparent discount for renewal contract versus initial, which is a change from previous years. Also, everybody gets the 35K up to 24 YAS, which was the other big change. ART bonus is 18K/yr with one year minimum to a maximum contract length to 25YAS.
All in all, thanks for the free money Blue, but it's not changing the calculus of those who are intent on getting airline jobs. Once they get the airline job, they'll cash this bonus, but not a day before. Not sure how this changes anything in the AFRC. The TR invol IA are absolutely killing morale and retention down here, fix that instead. There's no pay problem here (well, TRs getting their flight pay still jacked up is a problem), only a QOL one, and its costing them the kitty, just like the regAF.
As to them going to a dedicated career field incentive pay on a year to year float index, to the tune of 6K/mo increase over today's water line? ROFL. You guys crack me up. 
 
 

ART bonus 18k per year with a contract? ANG is giving 25% bonuses to IP's with no strings attached. Figure out what 25% on GS-13-06 is (almost $30k). Payed out bi-weekly. What does the OPM say about biweekly payed incentive bonuses for GS's? It says if you resign as a GS, you get to keep what you've gotten. They can't hold you to a contract unless it's payed lump sum.

[ColoradoAviator]

On 4/20/2018 at 8:15 PM, LookieRookie said:

$6k/month.

6,000 per month x 12 months x 12471 pilots = $897,912,000.  Also know as $900 million or just shy of $1 billion.  No way in hell Congress approves this or even half this amount for more senior folks.

This kind of additional pay is game changing. I had a conversation with my wife along the lines of, "I know we talked about airlines but what if I stayed in and earned $192K/year?"  Granted that conversation ended with "Haha - it'll never happen!"

Edited April 22, 2018 by ColoradoAviator

[Bergman]

16 minutes ago, ColoradoAviator said:

This kind of additional pay is game changing. I had a conversation with my wife along the lines of, "I know we talked about airlines but what if I stayed in and earned $192K/year?"  Granted that conversation ended with "Haha - it'll never happen!"

That is equivalent to 3rd year pay at the airline, assuming you work 15 days a month.  And you’d still have no control over your life (179s, 365s, PCS, RPA, etc).

 

[HeyWatchThis]

On 4/21/2018 at 7:26 AM, hindsight2020 said:

AFRC AGR bonus for FY18 is 35K/yr throttable between 1 thru 3 year contracts, no apparent discount for renewal contract versus initial, which is a change from previous years. Also, everybody gets the 35K up to 24 YAS, which was the other big change. ART bonus is 18K/yr with one year minimum to a maximum contract length to 25YAS.

All in all, thanks for the free money Blue, but it's not changing the calculus of those who are intent on getting airline jobs. Once they get the airline job, they'll cash this bonus, but not a day before. Not sure how this changes anything in the AFRC. The TR invol IA are absolutely killing morale and retention down here, fix that instead. There's no pay problem here (well, TRs getting their flight pay still jacked up is a problem), only a QOL one, and its costing them the kitty, just like the regAF.

As to them going to a dedicated career field incentive pay on a year to year float index, to the tune of 6K/mo increase over today's water line? ROFL. You guys crack me up. 

 

 

Any links/ info on the ART bonus? 

Is it separate from the 25% we are getting as a "retention" bonus or is the 18% the permanent raise to the 558 pay tables they have been talking about for 6.69 yrs now?  

[hindsight2020]

5 hours ago, HeyWatchThis said:

Any links/ info on the ART bonus? 

Is it separate from the 25% we are getting as a "retention" bonus or is the 18% the permanent raise to the 558 pay tables they have been talking about for 6.69 yrs now?  

I dunno. It's part of the AvB FY18 AFRC bonus announcement on myPers, under Tier 2. But it's pretty clear it's a bonus contract, not a permanent raise to the 558 SSR tables. Payable at the anniversary of every full year accomplished (no credit for partial years accomplished) and can be agreed between one and whatever years you want, not to exceed 25YAS. Some other provisions in there I didn't care to read. But it's on mypers. 

 

[war007afa]

On 4/21/2018 at 5:23 PM, hindsight2020 said:

What do you mean "unlike" the airlines? That's not what @LookieRookie posted. He said the brief specifically mentioned pay that's re-assessed EVERY YEAR based on market indices specific to your civilian equivalent . 

I want zero to do with my hard-pay indexed to airline hiring. Soft pay, knock yourself out, but not hard-pay. That's why I don't support going to the doctor model for a 'pylet'. This skillset is simply not that market resilient in the civilian world. 

But this is all to do about nothing. This proposal has fvck all chance of getting passed by Congress. Stop loss has a higher chance of happening in earnest on FY20 than this pipedream. Either way, we're kind of a captive audience here in the mil side. The only play is to exit stage.

 

I mean that we can get doctors on the economy but we can’t go out and get pilots for the Air Force.  But for some reason the guy we can replace with a phone call gets a market-based and substantially larger bonus amount.  I’m thinking the service needs to prioritize a bit, especially since the cost of aviation ratings quickly approaches the cost of medicine.

Never said I want hard pay linked to the economy. But the bonus (I’m assuming this is what you mean with “soft pay”) should definitely link to the economy. The same logic that’s saying bail for the money and seniority says you want a bonus based on demand for your skill set. The market drying up means the bonus goes away regardless, so why not make it better?

Edited April 22, 2018 by war007afa