Aviation Continuation Pay (ACP - The Bonus)

[Guest]

Yeah, I also figure a good number of the 23% have an ADSC from school. Also the late to rate who are within a stones throw of retiring.

[Chuck17]

Free money, baby. 

Chuck

[BashiChuni]

3 hours ago, Chuck17 said:

Devils money, baby.

 

[pawnman]

Not like I was going to the airlines anyway.

[SFG]

On April 20, 2018 at 3:42 PM, LookieRookie said:

RUMINT/more than: The bonus/flight pay is going away and to be replaced with professional pay FY20 ala doctors.

VCSAF briefed it to UPT IPs at RND last Friday and the proposal was "approved" by SECAF the week prior, now it needs congressional approval.

The pay never deceases with TAFSC unlike flight pay. You keep it as long as youre a core 11x no matter what the billet. It's tied to industry compensation and the algorithm is ran yearly.  So if the economy tanks, the pay tanks. The example (separate from VCSAF) given was a major at the end of his UPT ADSC would be making around $6K PER Month additional right now.

Any updates on this RUMINT/more than?

The latest ACTF NOTAM confirms that they are "pursuing options for replacing the AvB and AvIP programs with a “Professional Pay” construct designed to compensate Airmen for their skillsets and experience."

This worries me in that if they tie this professional pay to current qualifications, guys that had to requal or went unqual'ed will be scraping the bottom of the barrel. More than that, everyone will want to become an IP or EP even when not ready or even if unnecessary, because those qual's will be tied to more money.

Can we please just double the bonus and stop changing the game? Besides economic viability, wasn't stability and the ability to plan for the future one of the major factors in people getting out?

[matmacwc]

That would probably keep in 75%, they might have a winner.

[pawnman]

2 hours ago, Klepto said:

Any updates on this RUMINT/more than?

The latest ACTF NOTAM confirms that they are "pursuing options for replacing the AvB and AvIP programs with a “Professional Pay” construct designed to compensate Airmen for their skillsets and experience."

This worries me in that if they tie this professional pay to current qualifications, guys that had to requal or went unqual'ed will be scraping the bottom of the barrel. More than that, everyone will want to become an IP or EP even when not ready or even if unnecessary, because those qual's will be tied to more money.

Can we please just double the bonus and stop changing the game? Besides economic viability, wasn't stability and the ability to plan for the future one of the major factors in people getting out?

I'm worried about what the Air Force believes a 12X is worth on the outside. At least I got the bonus while it was hot.

[Disco_Nav963]

2 minutes ago, pawnman said:

I'm worried about what the Air Force believes a 12X is worth on the outside. At least I got the bonus while it was hot.

I have a feeling 12B "Professional Pay" will be on an hourly basis and tied to what BQZip's mom is making.

[BroncoEN]

If this is true, the AF actually turned a corner on retention. 

Pretty sure a lot of people would put up with a lot of BS for an extra 72K/yr with a pension at the end. 

Edited August 4, 2018 by BroncoEN
Spelling hard

[pawnman]

1 hour ago, Disco_Nav963 said:

I have a feeling 12B "Professional Pay" will be on an hourly basis and tied to what BQZip's mom is making.

So about tree fiddy?

[matmacwc]

12 minutes ago, pawnman said:

So about tree fiddy?

A night......

 

Bringing up old shit, somebody tell that asshole to check in.

[SFG]

1 hour ago, BroncoEN said:

If this is true, the AF actually turned a corner on retention. 

Pretty sure a lot of people would put up with a lot of BS for an extra 72K/yr with a pension at the end. 

No way it's 72K. At best that # is a mistake. At worst it is a rumor designed to keep people in until it's too late.

You can watch the video of the CSAF telling Congress that he didn't need more than $35k when Congress directly asked him if he wanted more $ for bonuses in the FY'19 budget.

Until that narrative changes, they will not be giving anyone a $72K bonus or professional pay anywhere near that.

From the rumors I've heard floating around I expect to see something more like:
2000/month for Co-Pilot/Wing = $24,000
2500/month for an AC/Lead = $30,000
3000/month for an IP = $36,000
3500/month for an EP = $42,000
AFTER UPT commitment is up.

Therein lies the problem. What happens when you switch aircraft? What happens if you get a non-flying assignment? What happens if you need to requal? What happens when everyone is gunning for AC/IP/EP only for the money?

IF it is 72K pilot pay across the board that would be great. But it won't be. We already told Congress that the bonus is plenty big enough this year AND we don't need to raise it for next year. What's more is that Congress still requires that the AF present a tiered "business case" model for aviation bonus funding, which means they require us to pay some pilots less and some more based on statistics, forecasts, and the good 'ol 8-ball.

Bottom line is that some will get paid less and some will get paid more, just like now, and if it's not purely based on Core ID (and even if it is) people will make upgrade decisions, airframe decisions, cross-training decisions, requal and staff decisions, and more based on whatever Professional Pay ends up being... and it won't be $72k. I hope it is. But it won't be.

Anyone have anything more than hopes, dreams, or rumors?

[ImNotARobot]

Details irrelevant. RUN.

[Fuzz]

They keep missing the boat with all this after the UPT commitment is up, by that point it’s too late. Also like previously mentioned other AFSCs don’t have to wait until the end of their commitment to receive professional pay, so this will likely backfire once again.

[flyusaf83]

52 minutes ago, Fuzz said:

They keep missing the boat with all this after the UPT commitment is up, by that point it’s too late. Also like previously mentioned other AFSCs don’t have to wait until the end of their commitment to receive professional pay, so this will likely backfire once again.

Agreed. I think the AF should adjust the bonus.  You should be able to take it halfway into your UPT commitment.  So take a 8 year ADSC that begins when your UPT commitment ends.  But start the bonus payments right away, beginning year 6.  

That way you’d get a lot more takers.

[KWings06j]

On 8/4/2018 at 6:57 PM, Klepto said:

No way it's 72K. At best that # is a mistake. At worst it is a rumor designed to keep people in until it's too late.

You can watch the video of the CSAF telling Congress that he didn't need more than $35k when Congress directly asked him if he wanted more $ for bonuses in the FY'19 budget.

Until that narrative changes, they will not be giving anyone a $72K bonus or professional pay anywhere near that.

From the rumors I've heard floating around I expect to see something more like:
2000/month for Co-Pilot/Wing = $24,000
2500/month for an AC/Lead = $30,000
3000/month for an IP = $36,000
3500/month for an EP = $42,000
AFTER UPT commitment is up.

Therein lies the problem. What happens when you switch aircraft? What happens if you get a non-flying assignment? What happens if you need to requal? What happens when everyone is gunning for AC/IP/EP only for the money?

IF it is 72K pilot pay across the board that would be great. But it won't be. We already told Congress that the bonus is plenty big enough this year AND we don't need to raise it for next year. What's more is that Congress still requires that the AF present a tiered "business case" model for aviation bonus funding, which means they require us to pay some pilots less and some more based on statistics, forecasts, and the good 'ol 8-ball.

Bottom line is that some will get paid less and some will get paid more, just like now, and if it's not purely based on Core ID (and even if it is) people will make upgrade decisions, airframe decisions, cross-training decisions, requal and staff decisions, and more based on whatever Professional Pay ends up being... and it won't be $72k. I hope it is. But it won't be.

Anyone have anything more than hopes, dreams, or rumors?

I heard similar numbers but tied to years of aviation service. Similar to current flight pay. Not sure how gate months or non flying assignments might play in.

[Hunter Rose]

Curious when they will start releasing the AvB take rate percentages since last year they had them up monthly on RAW. I imagine the downward trend will continue.

This makes me think we will actually see a Professional Pay proposal in FY19 since USAF already has a net loss of 149 pilots from FY17 (about the same net loss they had the two years prior).

Clearly the bonus and other retention initiatives are having zero effect, and the downward trend continues.

 

Edited August 7, 2018 by Hunter Rose

[ViperStud]

Is this all rumor mill or is there a credible source on record?

[Guest]

Is this all rumor mill or is there a credible source on record?

I heard it was briefed at either RND or a UPT base a while back by the 19 AF/CC. That said, I had also heard that the Air Force wanted to up the bonus to 60k in 2016, then 48k in 2017, which made it through the house markup, but the Senate shot that down. I don’t see the Senate approving additional pay for pilots as long as you have guys like McCain and Cotton on the SASC.

[ThreeHoler]

I heard it was briefed at either RND or a UPT base a while back by the 19 AF/CC. That said, I had also heard that the Air Force wanted to up the bonus to 60k in 2016, then 48k in 2017, which made it through the house markup, but the Senate shot that down. I don’t see the Senate approving additional pay for pilots as long as you have guys like McCain and Cotton on the SASC.

A RAND study the AF commissioned said $72k/yr was required to retain what the AF wants. The AF asked for $60k/yr in 2016. House gave $48k/yr. McCain and cronies cut it to $35k/yr and won’t budge. I was at a briefing by a General from HAF/A3 where he gave all this info.

[Jaded]

They asked for $60k per year and at the same time told congress it wasn't about the money. Now they tell this revisionist history narrative that blames congress rather than their own mismanagement. 

[BFM this]

2 hours ago, ThreeHoler said:

 

A RAND study the AF commissioned said $72k/yr was required to retain what the AF wants. The AF asked for $60k/yr in 2016. House gave $48k/yr. McCain and cronies cut it to $35k/yr and won’t budge. I was at a briefing by a General from HAF/A3 where he gave all this info.

 

Not to worry.  With the new ADSC rule change, it makes up for it.  #FixedTheGlitch

[Right Seat Driver]

Dudes, there is something way better than a bonus that doesn't require you to sign anything AND you get an extra $500 a month. #StopLoss

[flyusaf83]

3 hours ago, ThreeHoler said:

 

A RAND study the AF commissioned said $72k/yr was required to retain what the AF wants. The AF asked for $60k/yr in 2016. House gave $48k/yr. McCain and cronies cut it to $35k/yr and won’t budge. I was at a briefing by a General from HAF/A3 where he gave all this info.

 

While Congress certainly shares blame, I call bullshit on this.  If the AF really wants to pay us more, and it’s just mean old Congress stopping them - then why in the name of God does the AF elect to pay LESS flight pay than Congress authorized them to pay?

[war007afa]

On 8/8/2018 at 12:10 AM, Hunter Rose said:

Curious when they will start releasing the AvB take rate percentages since last year they had them up monthly on RAW. I imagine the downward trend will continue.

This makes me think we will actually see a Professional Pay proposal in FY19 since USAF already has a net loss of 149 pilots from FY17 (about the same net loss they had the two years prior).

Clearly the bonus and other retention initiatives are having zero effect, and the downward trend continues.

 

Email sent from COMAFPC to organizations stated current take rate for initial eligible pilots was sub-27%. So there’s that...