Aviation Continuation Pay (ACP - The Bonus)

[Eli]

27 minutes ago, SocialD said:

 

 

Yup!  On one of our TSPs we had a pilots only sit down with Welsh...we asked about why we were doing these non-contingency (read: proper ing).  His response, your TAGs asked for it...  I have a strong feeling that the INVOLs Eli and Buddy Spike are referencing are the same.

Yup. Our TAG is Army. He loves him some Army. The  couple of times he has come to our base I think of Buster Bluth "It's Army, mother!" 

When the task came to our state our leadership told him if we don't get volunteers, we are going to lose a lot of people.

As far as ery we call it your LOAC moment. That's when you show to fly, after taking time off from work, they tell you can't because you have not done PT test/flu shot/Green Dot/. Mind you these are local requirements. Best day is when I saw it with one of our best IPs.  No PT test no fly.  He dropped paperwork that day.

The next couple of years should be fun.

Forgot to add TAG did not care of we lost people.

Edited December 29, 2018 by Eli

[Tommy]

2 hours ago, olevelo said:

It was changed from 45 to 60 or 90. Can't remember which because there was so much confusion over it. But its definitely not 45 anymore.

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 I was sent a memo from my AO last week stating 45 days is good for 5 years. If you or anyone else has a memo stating otherwise could you post it. 

Edited December 29, 2018 by Lifer

[olevelo]

 I was sent a memo from my AO last week stating 45 days is good for 5 years. If you or anyone else has a memo stating otherwise could you post it. 

I'm not sure if I ever saw it in writing. I'll take a look when I get a chance to see if I had any emails about it. I just know I heard it from reliable enough sources to take it as gospel...and I'm the first person to be skeptical until I see the black and white!

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[gearhog]

8 hours ago, Eli said:

Not entirely true. C130 units are getting tagged with Afghan Air Advisor. We sent three people. Our leadership lucked out that they were volunteers, two of them anyway, one had an ADSC so they voluntold him. It's not just a 179. You have to learn Army, so that is another couple of months. 

Had leadership had to make a list and start asking -those who said no would have been shown the door. My estimate is we would have lost 20-30% of instructors across each crew position.

I'm in a guard unit.

Heard a nasty rumor a Herc unit may be getting tagged for this in 2019. I guarantee every traditional IP's hand is spring loaded to smash the "F this I'm out" button like a contestant on Family Feud.

[DirtyFlightSuit]

7 hours ago, pawnman said:

Given the fact that I'm at the FTU, there are a long list of people who have not deployed for 45 days as recently as I have.
As for the 179s...I'm totally willing to jump on one of those.  Six months isn't a bad deal compared to a 365, especially if I can go to the Deid instead of Asscrackistan.

I would have taken any deployment over the Died.  My time in Asscrackistan was by far more enjoyable and productive than that hell hole.  I've never had better accommodations deployed than at the Died, but I hated every second of it there.  Mostly because of the people. 

[slackline]

Something else I just discovered that happened under the table late in 2016...
Even if you have completed all your gates, which previously would have entitled you to AvIP through 25 years of aviation service, you will no longer receive AvIP ("Flight Pay") if you are in an assignment outside of aviation for more than 48 consecutive months.
Exceptions are Joint Duty Assignment List assignments, resident PME or AF-funded education programs, or positions requiring an aeronatical rating.
The more you know...
 

Have the source document or linky? I’d just like to lay eyes on that so I can really be pissed...


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[Warrior]

Not entirely true. C130 units are getting tagged with Afghan Air Advisor. We sent three people. Our leadership lucked out that they were volunteers, two of them anyway, one had an ADSC so they voluntold him. It's not just a 179. You have to learn Army, so that is another couple of months. 
Had leadership had to make a list and start asking -those who said no would have been shown the door. My estimate is we would have lost 20-30% of instructors across each crew position.
I'm in a guard unit.

Can you elaborate on the ANG dude who has an ADSC?

[Eli]

1 hour ago, Warrior said:

 

Can you elaborate on the ANG dude who has an ADSC?

Technically I don't know if ADSC is the correct verbiage.  The dude is my crew position.  He came off AD to us.  Somewhere in that transfer he incurred a commitment to the Guard.  

In a previous post I had mentioned that "if leadership had to make a list.. . . " well they did for our crew position.  One drill they brought us in one by one and asked if we would volunteer.  We were told if we said no then we needed to separate, that the TAG did not care about our units ability to maintain the magical C rating.  I was number 4 on the list.  It would have gone to the sixth guy on the list because the five of us ahead of him told leadership if they gave it to us we would bounce.  Mind you there are only nine guys qualified to go.  I guess they need an instructor to hold the 9mil at the back of the hajis head when they are on approach so he doesn't pull the whole it is Allaha's will

The guy I mentioned said he was going to bounce.  Except someone did some research and found out he had to go because of some kind of commitment to the guard.  I don't know if he palace chased, I had known him on AD so I am pretty sure he had completed his ADSC.  That's all I know.  It is a crap deal.  the guys that get tagged with it, if they go, have three months of Army and advanced beatings.  Then they are on the ground for 180, they can be extended, you are in Kabul wondering if Mohamed 1 or Mohamed 2 is going to come in and shoot up the class that day. Oh and you have an AD commander, one of my buddies who did it from another Guard unit, said the CC loved room inspections.  So there is that.

 

 

 

 

[hindsight2020]

19 minutes ago, Eli said:

Technically I don't know if ADSC is the correct verbiage.  The dude is my crew position.  He came off AD to us.  Somewhere in that transfer he incurred a commitment to the Guard.  

In a previous post I had mentioned that "if leadership had to make a list.. . . " well they did for our crew position.  One drill they brought us in one by one and asked if we would volunteer.  We were told if we said no then we needed to separate, that the TAG did not care about our units ability to maintain the magical C rating.  I was number 4 on the list.  It would have gone to the sixth guy on the list because the five of us ahead of him told leadership if they gave it to us we would bounce.  Mind you there are only nine guys qualified to go.  I guess they need an instructor to hold the 9mil at the back of the hajis head when they are on approach so he doesn't pull the whole it is Allaha's will

The guy I mentioned said he was going to bounce.  Except someone did some research and found out he had to go because of some kind of commitment to the guard.  I don't know if he palace chased, I had known him on AD so I am pretty sure he had completed his ADSC.  That's all I know.  It is a crap deal.  the guys that get tagged with it, if they go, have three months of Army and advanced beatings.  Then they are on the ground for 180, they can be extended, you are in Kabul wondering if Mohamed 1 or Mohamed 2 is going to come in and shoot up the class that day. Oh and you have an AD commander, one of my buddies who did it from another Guard unit, said the CC loved room inspections.  So there is that.

 

 

 

 

Jesus Christ what a mess. Talk about a toxic environment. 

 Btw, the term you're looking for is RSC = Reserve Service Commitment. It's the ARC version of an ADSC.  The main difference is that an RSC can be served part time, but it expires by calendar just like an ADSC. So if you're stuck with an RSC, you technically can fulfill it by min running the snot out of the unit and it expires just as quickly as if you were full time/active duty. For an AGR, an RSC can be problematic as it can stop you from getting a curtailment approved, which affects civilian employment. I know of someone who couldn't take a Delta CJO over an aviation bonus RSC they wouldn't cut him loose from.

For TRs in an environment of no invol mobs, RSCs mean nothing. But as your co-worker found out, in this brave new world of active duty light, RSCs are a big problem for TRs. Caveat emptor.

RSCs are incurred for similar (but not all) things AD incurs an ADSC for. GI bill transfers, formal schools to include initial qualification training in a different MDS/MWS. Palace Chase (2:1 on the balance of whatever ADSC you had at the time of PC approval ) is another popular one. Aviation bonus (AGR or TR bonus) is another one. And so forth. Your buddy probably had a palace chase RSC balance and the rest is history.

Green-on-blue is a sore subject for me, as I lost a friend and OTS classmate in 2011 to those mfckers we're told to "aid and advise". CENTCOM IA nonner taskings are thus a trigger topic for me. I would quit, and leave a retirement on the table over it. My monkey my circus. I've been taking paycuts for 5 of my 13 years in order to retain the ability to say no; I'm certainly not about to start making exceptions to that policy in this hiring environment.

What you describe is real though, and I know that calculus goes into many airline dude's ledgers these days. We've all done our time, and there is no lack of volunteerism on our part if we are called to do our primary duty. But the rest of that rent-seeking fucketry, yeah count me out.

What the ARC is doing right now is neither good faith nor good business imo. 

[war007afa]

4 hours ago, Eli said:

I guess they need an instructor to hold the 9mil at the back of the hajis head when they are on approach so he doesn't pull the whole it is Allaha's will

The guy I mentioned said he was going to bounce.  Except someone did some research and found out he had to go because of some kind of commitment to the guard.  I don't know if he palace chased, I had known him on AD so I am pretty sure he had completed his ADSC.  That's all I know.  It is a crap deal.  the guys that get tagged with it, if they go, have three months of Army and advanced beatings.  Then they are on the ground for 180, they can be extended, you are in Kabul wondering if Mohamed 1 or Mohamed 2 is going to come in and shoot up the class that day. Oh and you have an AD commander, one of my buddies who did it from another Guard unit, said the CC loved room inspections.  So there is that.

What the hell are you talking about?  Not quite to Stockholm Syndrome yet, but your data points are entirely misinformed.

After 7 months in the Kabubble, I haven't once had an "Enshallah" moment" from a student I've flown with.  There have been a few "Hey, that runway looks a lot like a taxiway, don't you think?" moments, but no one here is holding a gun to anyone's head to prevent any nefarious activity.

The ARC dudes coming here are flying and enjoying life.  Most volunteer; haven't heard many stories of anyone having to be coerced to do it.  Extending an ARC dude takes a Presidential Decree, it seems.  When they volunteer to stay longer (and many of them do), they're told "no" by the powers-that-be.

Force protection is an important element of what we do, but there is very little concern about 99.9% of the dudes we fly with.  These guys are typically targeted more than Americans by extremists and still come to work to fight the good fight.  And they're constantly under a microscope.

You do have an AD commander, who is on a 365 and allows free reign of expertise across the MDSs.  And no one is doing room inspections.  So there is that.

[Eli]

2 hours ago, war007afa said:

What the hell are you talking about?  Not quite to Stockholm Syndrome yet, but your data points are entirely misinformed.

After 7 months in the Kabubble, I haven't once had an "Enshallah" moment" from a student I've flown with.  There have been a few "Hey, that runway looks a lot like a taxiway, don't you think?" moments, but no one here is holding a gun to anyone's head to prevent any nefarious activity.

The ARC dudes coming here are flying and enjoying life.  Most volunteer; haven't heard many stories of anyone having to be coerced to do it.  Extending an ARC dude takes a Presidential Decree, it seems.  When they volunteer to stay longer (and many of them do), they're told "no" by the powers-that-be.

Force protection is an important element of what we do, but there is very little concern about 99.9% of the dudes we fly with.  These guys are typically targeted more than Americans by extremists and still come to work to fight the good fight.  And they're constantly under a microscope.

You do have an AD commander, who is on a 365 and allows free reign of expertise across the MDSs.  And no one is doing room inspections.  So there is that.

My info comes from the few people I know who have done it.   They told me about room inspections for the particular commander at the time.  They did get extended as to how long I don't remember what they told me, these guys did it in '15.

I just gave you your first story of someone who had to go.  Might be a rare thing due to timing but it happened.

In our unit it might be coming around again and our IPs are not volunteering, nor INs, nor ILs. This hit us in '13,'17 and another might be around the corner.  If it happens there will be a serious strain on our unit.  But maybe someone will volunteer and their talk is just hypothetical.  Although we are about to be down to only a couple of full time IPs. Every other one is an airline guy with over 20.

The 9mil is tongue and cheek as there are no Navs in the Afghan community.  So why is that position tasked?

As far as a shoot out in the ops room it has happened and it is a reality, and they did shoot air advisors, and it was an Afghan pilot. But that was 2011 so maybe things have changed, and its just other vetted and trusted Afghans who commit insider shootings in other advisor units.

Either way it is a crap program and all for naught.  Their aviation will fall apart as soon as we leave, which looks to be close.

 

[Eli]

14 hours ago, torqued said:

Heard a nasty rumor a Herc unit may be getting tagged for this in 2019. I guarantee every traditional IP's hand is spring loaded to smash the "F this I'm out" button like a contestant on Family Feud.

This ongoing I know the guard has been tagged with this since '14. It is not rumor. I believe it bounces back and fourth between guard and reserve. 

[tac airlifter]

1 hour ago, Eli said:

My info comes from the few people I know who have done it.   They told me about room inspections for the particular commander at the time.  They did get extended as to how long I don't remember what they told me, these guys did it in '15.

I just gave you your first story of someone who had to go.  Might be a rare thing due to timing but it happened.

In our unit it might be coming around again and our IPs are not volunteering, nor INs, nor ILs. This hit us in '13,'17 and another might be around the corner.  If it happens there will be a serious strain on our unit.  But maybe someone will volunteer and their talk is just hypothetical.  Although we are about to be down to only a couple of full time IPs. Every other one is an airline guy with over 20.

The 9mil is tongue and cheek as there are no Navs in the Afghan community.  So why is that position tasked?

As far as a shoot out in the ops room it has happened and it is a reality, and they did shoot air advisors, and it was an Afghan pilot. But that was 2011 so maybe things have changed, and its just other vetted and trusted Afghans who commit insider shootings in other advisor units.

Either way it is a crap program and all for naught.  Their aviation will fall apart as soon as we leave, which looks to be close.

 

You don’t know what you’re talking about.

First, Afghan aviation will not fall apart as soon as we leave. It’ll be super unsafe, but they will find a way.

Second, INs are no longer tasked for the deployment.

Third, the requirement is going from 6 x C130 guys to 3, and forecast to hit zero soon.  I know of no C130 non-vols.

Fourth, copy there is a green on blue threat and thank you for the history lesson.  However your characterization of the environment is misinformed despite the events of 7 years ago.

Finally, I know the anecdote of an ate-up active duty commander doing room inspections on some AGR mission hackers minding their own business is emotionally appealing.  But consider the possibility said AGR dudes were such disgusting slobs they attracted rodents by their poor hygiene.  I wasn’t there.  But I did see an AD commander on his hands and knees scrubbing piss stains off the floor of an AGR members room to clean it before another AGR guy occupied it the next morning.  Two sides to every story.

I don’t blame anyone who passes on an adviser gig, especially in the AGR.  I’d recommend against using your third hand years old info to argue facts with a guy currently doing the task in question.

[herkbum]

I’d recommend against using your third hand years old info to argue facts with a guy currently doing the task in question.

I think this should be the case with any discussion


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[jazzdude]

Sooooo... Any rumors on this year's bonus or when it'll be released?

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[DirtyFlightSuit]

1 hour ago, jazzdude said:

Sooooo... Any rumors on this year's bonus or when it'll be released?

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[SFG]

15 hours ago, slackline said:

Have the source document or linky? I’d just like to lay eyes on that so I can really be pissed...

https://www.esd.whs.mil/Portals/54/Documents/DD/issuances/dodi/773067_dodi_2016.pdf

Found this after I saw it referenced in a brief and the briefer’s assertion sounded strange, but turned out to be correct.

Section 3.3.

“These officers are eligible for AvIP for up to [xx] years of aviation service as long as they are assigned to...”

”(1) A Joint assignment or position on the Joint Duty Assignment List.
(2) Attending resident professional military education or a fully-funded graduate education program authorized by the Secretary of the Military Department concerned.
(3) Aviation-specific positions that must be filled by officers with an aeronautical rating.
(4) Career-enhancing assignments outside of aviation or based on the needs of the Military Services for a period not to exceed 48 consecutive months.”

Edited December 30, 2018 by Klepto
Edited YAS to show that the reg applies across all gates.

[Breckey]

So I read this that if the billet is an 11/12X position then you're good. I guess the AMS mail robots will get even more desperate.

 

 

[SFG]

11 hours ago, Breckey said:

So I read this that if the billet is an 11/12X position then you're good. I guess the AMS mail robots will get even more desperate.

Yes, I think that’s accurate.

The problem is with jobs that are 11/12 “desired”. Since they’re not “must”-fills with aviators your AvIP will stop no matter how many gates you’ve completed.

Anyone with or looking at staying 12+ should take note as this could affect them... especially anyone looking at going to non-joint Staff, anyone taking secondary AFSCs (like FAO/PAS) or someone switching to the new 13O careerfield. Read: pay cut for filling institutional requirements.

There are probably others it affects. In general, not a worry for most aviators, but cutting off AvIP for 10-20% of folks between 12-28 YAS will def save the AF some money. Go AF.

Edited December 31, 2018 by Klepto

[Guest]

Sooooo... Any rumors on this year's bonus or when it'll be released?

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It’s not going to exceed 35k a year.


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[gearhog]

3 hours ago, tac airlifter said:

You don’t know what you’re talking about.

First, Afghan aviation will not fall apart as soon as we leave. It’ll be super unsafe, but they will find a way.

Second, INs are no longer tasked for the deployment.

Third, the requirement is going from 6 x C130 guys to 3, and forecast to hit zero soon.  I know of no C130 non-vols.

Fourth, copy there is a green on blue threat and thank you for the history lesson.  However your characterization of the environment is misinformed despite the events of 7 years ago.

Finally, I know the anecdote of an ate-up active duty commander doing room inspections on some AGR mission hackers minding their own business is emotionally appealing.  But consider the possibility said AGR dudes were such disgusting slobs they attracted rodents by their poor hygiene.  I wasn’t there.  But I did see an AD commander on his hands and knees scrubbing piss stains off the floor of an AGR members room to clean it before another AGR guy occupied it the next morning.  Two sides to every story.

I don’t blame anyone who passes on an adviser gig, especially in the AGR.  I’d recommend against using your third hand years old info to argue facts with a guy currently doing the task in question.

God bless ya for doing what you're doing, but for clarification, you're arguing with a guy who is making the case it sucks.

Are you saying it's a good deal or are you just saying your facts for substantiating that it is a shit deal are better than his facts for substantiating its a shit deal?

 

[DirtyFlightSuit]

Me thinks tac airlifter's blue kool aid has stained his forehead in phallic shape.  

 

And this assessment "First, Afghan aviation will not fall apart as soon as we leave. It’ll be super unsafe, but they will find a way." 

That entire country already is fallen apart soooo ya.

Edited December 30, 2018 by DirtyFlightSuit

[osulax05]

So on the AvIP front we have the AF electing to pay less than the max allowable by law (Gen Grosso memo from last summer)[edited based on three holer’s comment below]

 

Edited December 31, 2018 by osulax05

[Homestar]

40 minutes ago, DirtyFlightSuit said:

Me thinks tac airlifter's blue kool aid has stained his forehead in phallic shape. 

Oooooooooorrrrr... maybe he know what he’s talking about and is tired of the “sky is falling” self-fellating this board is famous for. 

[Scooter14]

At least they FINALLY fixed the technician pay and are adding locality AND special salary rate to Department of the Air Force Pilots in the GS-11 through 15 grades.