Aviation Continuation Pay (ACP - The Bonus)

[goingkinetic]

They failed to cite my sos paper from 2013 which said the same thing. My guess is they’ll get the 100k bonus in 2023. #toolittletoolate.

[BADFNZ]

I think another factor is today's "everyone's equal" culture propagated through the AF.  How is Amn Bagodicks down at Finance going to feel when he finds out pilots are getting $100K a year on top of their normal salaries? 

[Guest]

I think another factor is today's "everyone's equal" culture propagated through the AF.  How is Amn Bagodicks down at Finance going to feel when he finds out pilots are getting $100K a year on top of their normal salaries? 

Probably the same way he feels about doctor’s bonuses.


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[nunya]

20 minutes ago, BADFNZ said:

How is Amn Bagodicks down at Finance going to feel when he finds out pilots are getting $100K a year on top of their normal salaries? 

I hope he feels like I felt when I left active duty.  Man, there are dudes out there making way more than me, spending more time with their kids, and not fearing their inbox.  What do I have to do to get there!?! And then I hope he goes to the education office and signs up for a BS from somewhere other than ERAU.

[Majestik Møøse]

33 minutes ago, nunya said:

I hope he feels like I felt when I left active duty.  Man, there are dudes out there making way more than me, spending more time with their kids, and not fearing their inbox.  What do I have to do to get there!?! And then I hope he goes to the education office and signs up for a BS from somewhere other than ERAU.

That’s the right answer, and that’s how a lot of young enlisted kids in the Air Force actually think. They look up, see a jet in a low closed, look at accession opportunities and get there.

They’re not the problem. It’s the old people. Old GSs. Chiefs. Old acquiescent staff officers. They’re still living in the 1990s. $25,000 is a lot of money. Only doctors and lawyers are rich.

[SFG]

8 minutes ago, Majestik Møøse said:

$25,000 is a lot of money. Only doctors and lawyers are rich.

Replies any major airline pilot:

Edited April 3, 2019 by Klepto

[FLEA]

Unfortunately the USAF is struggling to keep a generation of people who were taught how to be goal motivated, take risk early and not be afraid to move for a better opportunity. When you can't offer me a meaningful answer to how you are going to continue to mentor/grow/advance me past 14 years of service if I'm not on the command track, and don't want to pay me well, I'm going to go looking other places. Especially in my mid 30's, an age that my civilian counterparts widely regard as the peak years for quick/vertical mobility. I should be in the space shuttle at this point aiming for low earth orbit and you want me to level off at FL350 and accept holding for the straight in to retirement. you bro. 

Sorry, a little extra jaded today. 

 

[pawnman]

8 hours ago, BADFNZ said:

I think another factor is today's "everyone's equal" culture propagated through the AF.  How is Amn Bagodicks down at Finance going to feel when he finds out pilots are getting $100K a year on top of their normal salaries? 

I don't know... How does he feel about my extra $1k a month in flight pay?

[gearhog]

8 hours ago, BADFNZ said:

I think another factor is today's "everyone's equal" culture propagated through the AF.  How is Amn Bagodicks down at Finance going to feel when he finds out pilots are getting $100K a year on top of their normal salaries? 

You can bet every non-pilot in the AF will have less than zero consideration for any pilot quality of life/work issues. As a matter of fact, it’s likely fair to assume they’ll feel more than justified in making you earn that kind of bonus.

[matmacwc]

Fuck that attitude, if your a pilot on a base and you run into this attitude, somewhere along that douche bags chain of command, is a pilot.  If you’re more than a snot nosed LT,  fix it.  Rememeber, behind the silver wings of power, you’re also an officer, dust that knowledge off.

Somebody is going to jump on here and say you should fix it as a LT, that’s dumb, nobody listens to them.

Edited April 3, 2019 by matmacwc

[gearhog]

Given the attitude among our own higher chain of command pilots about current QOL grievances, do you think those career officers will be more or less likely to intervene on your behalf when you are making $100k more?

Sure, it’d feel good to give some lesser ranking dude the “what for”, but I don’t have faith in many the higher ranking pilots who currently exist above them.

No one should believe the current status quo will remain and an unlikely hypothetical big bonus won’t come with some strings attached. 

Your every concern will be met with: “That’s why you make the big bucks.’

[SFG]

13 minutes ago, torqued said:

Your every concern will be met with: “That’s why you make the big bucks.’

Nah. You’re overthinking it. If it’s  not one thing it’s another. We already hear “service before self” and “suck it up, you joined the military.” The retention issue the AF has right now is that pilots can say “no thanks” laughing all the way to the bank, as change the size of the current bonus is falling out of their pockets the whole way without even denting their bottom line.

[gearhog]

43 minutes ago, Klepto said:

Nah. You’re overthinking it. If it’s  not one thing it’s another. We already hear “service before self” and “suck it up, you joined the military.” The retention issue the AF has right now is that pilots can say “no thanks” laughing all the way to the bank, as change the size of the current bonus is falling out of their pockets the whole way without even denting their bottom line.

Here’s hoping. It won’t happen for me, but I hope the younger guys get a bonus big enough to tolerate whatever the AF throws at them.

[jice]

2 hours ago, torqued said:

Here’s hoping. It won’t happen for me, but I hope the younger guys get a bonus big enough to tolerate whatever the AF throws at them.

Totally agree... but! if there’s going to be any hope of actually using pay to help solve the problem, we can’t frame it as an admission of guilt or failure on the part of the AF.

“Acknowledging market forces beyond our control and taking the most fiscally and strategically responsible actions as recommended by numerous panels of independent experts” is far less likely to be met with Capt Closedfortraining’s “that’s not  fair” or Sue Neverservedaday’s “you joined the military” or Sen Goodolboy’s “what’s wrong with your culture?” 

This is as much about avoiding/defusing irrational arguments against a pay increase as it is endorsing the rational action of making one. Plagiarism-ish: “Subordinates and peers respond to complainers-in-chief; all else see whining.” 

[ThreeHoler]

Totally agree... but! if there’s going to be any hope of actually using pay to help solve the problem, we can’t frame it as an admission of guilt or failure on the part of the AF.
“Acknowledging market forces beyond our control and taking the most fiscally and strategically responsible actions as recommended by numerous panels of independent experts” is far less likely to be met with Capt Closedfortraining’s “that’s not  fair” or Sue Neverservedaday’s “you joined the military” or Sen Goodolboy’s “what’s wrong with your culture?” 
This is as much about avoiding/defusing irrational arguments against a pay increase as it is endorsing the rational action of making one. Plagiarism-ish: “Subordinates and peers respond to complainers-in-chief; all else see whining.” 

One of the worst opponents to military compensation was McCain. Hopefully people will be able to undo what he did in his last few years because “he had far less compensation when he was in and it was fine.”

[Sprkt69]

23 hours ago, ihtfp06 said:

Probably the same way he feels about doctor’s bonuses.


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$37.5k-$100k per year for 4 yrs for their bonuses

[war007afa]

9 hours ago, Sprkt69 said:

$37.5k-$100k per year for 4 yrs for their bonuses

You know, a buddy of mine and I were just discussing the impending doctor shortage which threatens to cripple America’s combat capability in the next 5-7 years...🙄

[Majestik Møøse]

Do Air Force doctors get bigger bonuses when they become real doctors?

[Guardian]

Higher rank. Not sure about more bonus

[Mojo]

3 hours ago, Majestik Møøse said:

Do Air Force doctors get bigger bonuses when they become real doctors?

I just looked this up and was surprised that the answer is yes.   https://militarypay.defense.gov/Pay/Special-and-Incentive-Pays/Index/#301d

They receive a Retention Bonus (think Bonus) and Variable Special Pay and/or Incentive Special Pay (think Flight Pay).  But they can also receive Additional Special Pay after they complete their residency and Board Certification Pay if they are Board Certified.  I'm not sure there's an exact equivalent, but it might be similar to IP Pay or Patch Pay (not that those exist...)

[Sprkt69]

40 minutes ago, Merle Dixon said:

I have had a similar conversation with non-pilot friends. I’ve explained that it takes more time and schooling to build a surgeon or a radiologist than an IP or WIC grad pilot, but the IP or WIC grad probably has $12 million, or more, in training invested in him/her. I have said, “Think about that, there isn’t a medical school or medical training program in the world that costs 12 million dollars, but the AF will only pay 35 grand a year for a pilot retention bonus? Asinine.”

 

It would be significantly more than $12M for a fighter WIC grad

[Homestar]

On 3/26/2019 at 1:30 PM, LookieRookie said:

The director of the ACTF will be doing an AMA on Reddit on 4 April.

 

 

Here's a link to the AMA.  Didn't see it posted yet.

https://www.reddit.com/r/AirForce/comments/b9dy4j/im_brig_gen_short_director_of_the_aircrew_task/

[brabus]

1 hour ago, Merle Dixon said:

I’ve explained that it takes more time and schooling to build a surgeon or a radiologist than an IP or WIC grad pilot

Takes approximately 7-8 years post-bachelors to make a WIC grad, so really it's about the same time to create a patch compared to a MD/surgeon.  Probably have spent $20M+ on that guy too by the end of WIC (encompassing his entire flying career thus far).  The AF is beyond retarded and will summarily dismiss the recent RAND study because it doesn't support what the AF wants to hear.

Edited April 5, 2019 by brabus

[Sprkt69]

1 hour ago, Homestar said:

Here's a link to the AMA.  Didn't see it posted yet.

https://www.reddit.com/r/AirForce/comments/b9dy4j/im_brig_gen_short_director_of_the_aircrew_task/

Seemed like a nothing burger with fuzzy staff math claiming nothing is F’d

[raimius]

43 minutes ago, Sprkt69 said:

Seemed like a nothing burger with fuzzy staff math claiming nothing is F’d

The general seems to be waking up early every day to think about this.

..but

Neither flight pay nor the bonus will increase. (Blame Congress, except for the flight pay--Big AF apparently needs to make it look like we are trying to save money even though Congress allowed us money to help this very problem!)

Those QoL improvements are still mostly unspecified

Manning in all the cited communities looks decent on the spreadsheets

The complaints about feeling valued via promotion, recognition, support, etc mostly went unanswered