Aviation Continuation Pay (ACP - The Bonus)

[FLEA]

Does anyone remember how long you have to get our after accepting VSP? I can't remember if it's 6 months or until the end of the FY. 

6 months just seems like a firehose to seperate and removes the ability to get into programs like CSB. 

[pawnman]

7 hours ago, Sprkt69 said:

From a friend at HAF, pilots are also planned to be cut in the VSP/RIF as they are “nothing special”

The good news is that the airlines are starting to hire again

Good to see we've learned our lesson in the last 10 years.

How long until CSAF is testifying about a pilot shortage to Congress again?

[jazzdude]

Does anyone remember how long you have to get our after accepting VSP? I can't remember if it's 6 months or until the end of the FY. 
6 months just seems like a firehose to seperate and removes the ability to get into programs like CSB. 

I think timelines vary with the specific VSP offering. I want to say 6 months is the lowest they can go (and maybe the individual can request a faster separation), but too lazy to look it up.

VSP and RIF both aim to reduce manning quickly (to make the budget).

Almost all the transition programs are a nice to have. The VSP/RIF payouts replaces those nice to have transition programs with cash.

TAP is the only program I can think of that's mandated, and there's always the GI Bill as well to help with transition to civilian life.

[Smokin]

If you have a job lined up, have built a job transition money buffer, and are otherwise ready, six months is plenty.  If you just want out and are pulling the handle while hoping for the best, six months is pretty short if you have a family to feed.

[Bode]

If I take the bonus this year ($15k) and it jumps next year can I renegotiate or am I stuck with the current amount?


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[HeloDude]

Just now, Bode said:

If I take the bonus this year ($15k) and it jumps next year can I renegotiate or am I stuck with the current amount?


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Current amount...with the rare exception if in the new/future bonus it allows you to sign the new one for more pay/longer time period.  Something like this happened for us that initially took the bonus in 2014.

[Homestar]

3 hours ago, Bode said:

If I take the bonus this year ($15k) and it jumps next year can I renegotiate or am I stuck with the current amount?


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Depends on how it’s written next year. In 2014 I signed the bonus for 5 years. In 2015 I was allowed to renegotiate to 20 YAS.  

[CaptainMorgan]

Depends on how it’s written next year. In 2014 I signed the bonus for 5 years. In 2015 I was allowed to renegotiate to 20 YAS.  

IIRC, the “renegotiations” I was offered the last two years required a 3 year minimum extension (I already took it to 20), and only affected the $ amount for the tacked on years.


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[Bender]

Yeah I'm referring to the PIT waivers. Not the soul cause of problems, just a contributing factor. 

I think experience requirement to teach in primary training is a good thing. Is it set correctly, I don’t know. Do I like them enforcing what they have, yes.

I don’t think we do a good enough job training our FAIPs for what we ask of them...which, in my opinion, is a lot.

Also, f&$k a VSP...I’d consider a TERA to help my country out of its shit sandwich, but I’ve sacrificed plenty already...

~Bendy


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[contraildash]

Posted in the airline thread about this, but I wonder how much money the AF spends on medical folks compared to the aviation bonus. Kinda insane the money they throw at them.

https://www.myairforcebenefits.us.af.mil/Benefit-Library/Federal-Benefits/Special-Pay?serv=20

[FourFans]

On 4/17/2021 at 6:31 PM, Bode said:

If I take the bonus this year ($15k) and it jumps next year can I renegotiate or am I stuck with the current amount?

Any "renegotiation" will come with a longer commitment.  For example in 2015 I took a 5 year $25k bonus.  The next year I was offered a "renegotiation" option where the only option was up 20 YAS...which I flatly rejected.  Weight all options heavily. 

When you are committed, you lose all power of "no".  In the current environment, recognize that pilots are about to start abandoning ship again with airline hiring, leaving a massive hole in the population that is eligible for 180, 365, and non-desirable taskings to all AFSCs...and if you're committed, you have no say in the matter.  Make sure that little 1990's level bonus is really worth it to you.

If in doubt, don't take it and wait a year.

[CaptainMorgan]

Any "renegotiation" will come with a longer commitment.  For example in 2015 I took a 5 year $25k bonus.  The next year I was offered a "renegotiation" option where the only option was up 20 YAS...which I flatly rejected.  Weight all options heavily. 
When you are committed, you lose all power of "no".  In the current environment, recognize that pilots are about to start abandoning ship again with airline hiring, leaving a massive hole in the population that is eligible for 180, 365, and non-desirable taskings to all AFSCs...and if you're committed, you have no say in the matter.  Make sure that little 1990's level bonus is really worth it to you.
If in doubt, don't take it and wait a year.

Waiting a year may help, or it may not. In my case, I was offered 30k a year (took 8 years, taking me to 20). Had I waited a year, I could have signed for 7 years at 35k, netting a total of 245K instead of 240, but with no lump sum payment option. I’ve easily made up that 5k difference with the interest earned on the lump. As they’re currently offering the max (35k) for most career fields and airframes and there’s no talk of increasing the bonus in Congress, waiting now is probably not going to be financially beneficial. That said, you can’t put a price on free agency (oh wait, didn’t that 2-star say there are no free agents?).


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[FourFans]

54 minutes ago, CaptainMorgan said:

...waiting now is probably not going to be financially beneficial. That said, you can’t put a price on free agency (oh wait, didn’t that 2-star say there are no free agents?).

All true words.  I personally believe that senior USAF officials who want to maximize retention intentionally (if not consciously) hope to keep service members from understanding the real power of that word: "no" by trying to keep us focused on the money aspect, instead of the quality of life as a civilian, TR, or guardsman.

But even there they fail.  The 25k bonus from the 1990s should be a bare minimum of 37-40k to account for based on inflation alone.  It's a barehanded slap to our intelligence.

[BADFNZ]

Yet both of you took it.

[CaptainMorgan]

Yet both of you took it.

Signed it after working my next assignment. I also didn’t have the hours at the time to be competitive for anything other than a regional, and I couldn’t stomach that pay cut.


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[BADFNZ]

Well everyone's asking why they're offering such a shitty bonus, and the answer is because people are still taking it.  Why would they raise it when they can keep it low and still have plenty of takers?  Vote with your feet.

[FLEA]

46 minutes ago, BADFNZ said:

Well everyone's asking why they're offering such a shitty bonus, and the answer is because people are still taking it.  Why would they raise it when they can keep it low and still have plenty of takers?  Vote with your feet.

Don't worry, I know lots of 11Rs not taking it.....

 

 

......what too soon? 

[PAWS]

13 hours ago, CaptainMorgan said:

Signed it after working my next assignment. I also didn’t have the hours at the time to be competitive for anything other than a regional, and I couldn’t stomach that pay cut.

I’m in a similar boat.  ‘Volunteer-esque’ options arose that I could tailor my next 2 flying assignments (or 3 if I really min-run my tour lengths) to work in my favor; mind you, my personal priorities may not mirror everyone else’s.  I also saw the Air Force’s stellar talent-management/COVID-flavored writing on the wall, and renegotiated the FY20 bonus in the last few weeks it was offered to work for my family and myself.

I flat out tell the younger guys and gals whom I work with that if I was maybe 1, but definitely 2-3 year groups later, I would be making different choices, but this worked out so that I can bend it to my benefit.

Edited April 27, 2021 by PAWS

[cragspider]

Well there’s this nice little Av web story  and the one referenced inside it as well. I’ll say this about this current bonus offering, who in there right mind would take this one? This offer isn’t going to go well for them this time. 

[PAWS]

7 minutes ago, cragspider said:

Well there’s this nice little Av web story  and the one referenced inside it as well. I’ll say this about this current bonus offering, who in there right mind would take this one? This offer isn’t going to go well for them this time. 

I laud the energy these two guys have, but laugh that they think the anyone with the authority to change things will use logic to reverse the recent shifts in long-term manpower/talent management.

There’s always room to create UPT 3.0 and UPT Next-next.  (Not that the current side-effect of using modern commercial technology to increase student skills are bad, but intentionally using that as the primary solution to a self-made problem is wrong.)

[tac airlifter]

2 hours ago, BADFNZ said:

Well everyone's asking why they're offering such a shitty bonus, and the answer is because people are still taking it.  Why would they raise it when they can keep it low and still have plenty of takers?  Vote with your feet.

Exactly right.  

[pawnman]

Just lower the standards until you get enough pilots.

 

https://www.realcleardefense.com/articles/2021/04/27/the_air_force_is_about_to_lower_its_already_low_standards_774596.html

[CaptainMorgan]

I’m just waiting for the UPT ADSC to be increased


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[CaptainMorgan]

I’m just waiting for the UPT ADSC to be increased


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[theoriginalturk]

7 hours ago, pawnman said:

Just lower the standards until you get enough pilots.

 

https://www.realcleardefense.com/articles/2021/04/27/the_air_force_is_about_to_lower_its_already_low_standards_774596.html

You should see the curriculum and product on the RPA side. I’d laugh if it wasn’t such a bad joke.