Aviation Continuation Pay (ACP - The Bonus)

[SocialD]

As an O-5 with 22 years, $1,500/month in flight pay and $75,000/yr bonus (highly doubt it happens), that is getting close to what might entice me to consider going on a year of orders...close lol.  Problem is, the ANG clings to the ridiculous notion of a smaller bonus for 1 year orders.  I don't mind taking a pay hit to help out, but not for a measly 25k bonus.  

Edited August 14, 2022 by SocialD

[FLEA]

32 minutes ago, SocialD said:

As an O-5 with 22 years, $1,500/month in flight pay and $75,000/yr bonus (highly doubt it happens), that is getting close to what might entice me to consider going on a year of orders...close lol.  Problem is, the ANG clings to the ridiculous notion of a smaller bonus for 1 year orders.  I don't mind taking a pay hit to help out, but not for a measly 25k bonus.  

They are trying to reward commitment, I get that, but the structure is jacked. It pushes people on the fence off because they don't want to risk getting committed to something they want out of later and simultaneously there is a notion that I don't want to feel like I'm doing the same job but for less pay simply because I took longer to decide.  

[nsplayr]

1 hour ago, SocialD said:

As an O-5 with 22 years, $1,500/month in flight pay and $75,000/yr bonus (highly doubt it happens), that is getting close to what might entice me to consider going on a year of orders...close lol.  Problem is, the ANG clings to the ridiculous notion of a smaller bonus for 1 year orders.  I don't mind taking a pay hit to help out, but not for a measly 25k bonus.  

The fact that the AGR bonus is higher than the DSG bonus for a year of orders is whack. Your AGRs are usually in it to win it and already committed, where your DSGs are usually a bit more open to what comes down the pipe. If they wanted to move aviators from the fence line to being committed, it’d be exactly the reverse. 

[Danger41]

If this new pay rate/bonus gets passed, does that mean it’ll be available in the ANG/Reserves as well? Or is it just an AD thing?

[brabus]

They are separate bonuses, but typically are close to each other (at least the 3+ year AGR vs. AD…apples to apples). 

[herkbier]

I saw a thing a while back that said flights pay for TRs/DSGs won’t be prorated anymore; work one day, get the whole month of pay. I think it was supposed to take effect FY23, am I remembering correctly? Is that real?

[brabus]

That sounds like too good of a deal, but it would be awesome.  

[SocialD]

15 hours ago, nsplayr said:

The fact that the AGR bonus is higher than the DSG bonus for a year of orders is whack. Your AGRs are usually in it to win it and already committed, where your DSGs are usually a bit more open to what comes down the pipe. If they wanted to move aviators from the fence line to being committed, it’d be exactly the reverse. 

 

 

This!  All they're doing is ensuring that only the guys who have >15 years TAFMS are the ones who will come back on orders.  

 

 

4 hours ago, herkbier said:

I saw a thing a while back that said flights pay for TRs/DSGs won’t be prorated anymore; work one day, get the whole month of pay. I think it was supposed to take effect FY23, am I remembering correctly? Is that real?

 

 

Like the "new pay system" I was told (circa Mid 2018) would be rolled out Jan 2020 and would fix all the DSG flight pay issues...I'll believe it when I see.  BTW, anyone have an update ETIC on that 2020 rollout?  

[Danger41]

@Seriously I’m impressed by your ability to navigate all that legalese. I got lost/tired/scared trying to find the paragraphs you cited.

[BTLFlyer]

75k a year bonus would be nice. Do you think this has any chance of passing?

[CaptainMorgan]

75k a year bonus would be nice. Do you think this has any chance of passing?

Lol. Is Tom Cotton still a Senator?


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[Swizzle]

9 hours ago, BTLFlyer said:

75k a year bonus would be nice. Do you think this has any chance of passing?

@BTLFlyer @Seriously Not likely, reference SASC markup of NDAA23...which proposes an extension of existing quantities, save for the AIR FORCE RATED OFFICER RETENTION DEMONSTRATION PROGRAM...up to $50k/yr only for AD in the SASC markup for NDAA FY23

 

"(d) AUTHORITIES RELATING TO TITLE 37 CONSOLI-
18 DATED SPECIAL PAY, INCENTIVE PAY, AND BONUS AU-
19 THORITIES.—The following sections of title 37, United
20 States Code, are amended by striking ‘‘December 31,
21 2022’’ and inserting ‘‘December 31, 2023’’

//  //

(3) Section 334(i), relating to special aviation

2 incentive pay and bonus authorities for officers."

[Danger41]

Well if Tom Cotton or any of the other honorable members of the esteemed legislative body check this site, a recent informal straw poll amongst bros that punched after 10 year ADSC showed that almost 70% said they would have stayed for at least several more years for 75k a year bonus and $1500 flight pay. I would take it to a 20 year career and retirement for that money. 

[Swizzle]

8 hours ago, Danger41 said:

Well if Tom Cotton or any of the other honorable members of the esteemed legislative body check this site, a recent informal straw poll amongst bros that punched after 10 year ADSC showed that almost 70% said they would have stayed for at least several more years for 75k a year bonus and $1500 flight pay. I would take it to a 20 year career and retirement for that money. 

RAND study's 68k + ~9.3% inflation

[Lawman]

Well if Tom Cotton or any of the other honorable members of the esteemed legislative body check this site, a recent informal straw poll amongst bros that punched after 10 year ADSC showed that almost 70% said they would have stayed for at least several more years for 75k a year bonus and $1500 flight pay. I would take it to a 20 year career and retirement for that money. 

I’d settle for less money and a stop move… Seriously keep the money. I want my feet firmly planted where I’m standing for 5 years, and I’m not even at what most would consider a desirable location I just like my neighborhood and my kids going to the same school for a while.

PCSing to chase Busy work deployments and other “opportunities” has been the biggest sap for keeping people in Army Aviation.


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[BrightNeptune]

Did you know that the year two pay at UPS for first officers is $206 per hour/~173k per year minimum? After ten years when you're a captain, you're pulling in $344 per hour/~$289k per year minimum. 

Heck, you don't even have to sign a ten year contract, live in Clovis, or deploy!

Even a $75k per year bonus can't touch that.

 

[SurelySerious]

Did you know that the year two pay at UPS for first officers is $206 per hour/~173k per year minimum? After ten years when you're a captain, you're pulling in $344 per hour/~$289k per year minimum. 
Heck, you don't even have to sign a ten year contract, live in Clovis, or deploy!
Even a $75k per year bonus can't touch that.
 

UPS is, however, still stuck in the sand with their 1st year pay rate. Financial hazing in full effect.

[nunya]

1 minute ago, SurelySerious said:

Financial hazing in full effect.

So keep that ARC job at least through year one.  Because you love serving your country and somebody has to fly that Key West det.

[DuckHunter]

I took @Standby advice and reached out to my congressman as well.

 

Fool me 1,000 times, shame on me but at least I’m going to say something.

[CaptainMorgan]

I took [mention=13370]Standby[/mention] advice and reached out to my congressman as well.
 
Fool me 1,000 times, shame on me but at least I’m going to say something.

You wrote your Congressman? Whoop de-effing do! The only thing that will cause the rate to increase is enough people walking away to cause HAF to make a real case to Congress to increase it. Realistically, HAF will see the cheaper option is to just increase the UPT ADSC.


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[CaptainMorgan]

I took [mention=13370]Standby[/mention] advice and reached out to my congressman as well.
 
Fool me 1,000 times, shame on me but at least I’m going to say something.

You wrote your Congressman? Whoop de-effing do! The only thing that will cause the rate to increase is enough people walking away to cause HAF to make a real case to Congress to increase it. Realistically, HAF will see the cheaper option is to just increase the UPT ADSC.


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[DuckHunter]

9 hours ago, CaptainMorgan said:

You wrote your Congressman? Whoop de-effing do! The only thing that will cause the rate to increase is enough people walking away to cause HAF to make a real case to Congress to increase it. Realistically, HAF will see the cheaper option is to just increase the UPT ADSC.


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Yep, sure did.  And I didn’t even have to post it twice.

Guys have been saying to “vote with your feet” since at least 2014.  How’s that working out for us?  Congress controls the purse strings, they just don’t think we have a problem because that’s what the senior leaders are telling them.  They aren’t in the weeds everyday like we are, so they believe them.

I also don’t believe it’s going to happen, but instead of bitching about it I’m at least saying something to somebody that in theory should be able to change it.

[Danger41]

I know financially it makes sense to get to the airlines ASAFP and never look back. I unfortunately suffer from delusions of grandeur and Stockholm Syndrome and don't really want to leave the job that I wanted to get for my entire life. I'm also not totally selfish and know that my family could really benefit from the extra $$ in an airline career. In my current and future job I will absolutely be gone from home more as an airline guy than an AF pilot. YMMV on that one, big time. It's a no brainer to me that (in my own situation) the only extenuating variable is money. Why not pay up?

I have a unique perspective on all this stuff though as my dad was an airline pilot that went through not getting hired for awhile, mergers, furloughs, and 9/11. He punched early after 9/11 to try to get back in the AF as a 59 year old retired O-5 but they didn't want him to fly tankers so he just retired. Even I tried to jump right to the airlines in mid-2020 and that wasn't exactly good timing. All that to say is that I know more about the airlines than the average Joe that never experienced any of that stuff and has just been living the good life the last few years.

Honestly the hardest part for me is thinking back on some missions where my crew and the team writ large was able to make a big difference and bring Americans home from some pretty hairy situations. I know that's stupid and you've got to move on but that type of feeling is nagging me more than I thought it would. 

 

[HeyWatchThis]

On 8/15/2022 at 12:06 AM, herkbier said:

I saw a thing a while back that said flights pay for TRs/DSGs won’t be prorated anymore; work one day, get the whole month of pay. I think it was supposed to take effect FY23, am I remembering correctly? Is that real?

Yep....for a while they tried to pass it as the "Guard/Reserve Pay Disparity Act".....got lost in committee's so they inserted the language into this years (FY22) NDAA.  Below is all the legalese BS straight from the NDAA however bottom line is the SecDef has until 30 Sept 22 to submit a report on how to implement/pay for it and it should go into affect FY23.  

 

SEC. 602. EQUAL INCENTIVE PAY FOR MEMBERS OF THE RESERVE

                        COMPONENTS OF THE ARMED FORCES.

 

    (a) In General.--Subchapter II of chapter 5 of title 37, United

States Code, is amended by adding at the end the following new section:

``Sec. 357. <>  Incentive pay authorities for

                members of the reserve components of the armed

                forces

 

    ``Notwithstanding section 1004 of this title, the Secretary

concerned shall pay a member of the reserve component of an armed force

incentive pay in the same monthly amount as that paid to a member in the

regular component of such armed force performing comparable work

requiring comparable skills.''.

    (b) Technical Amendment.--The table of sections at the beginning of

such chapter <>  is amended by inserting after

the item relating to section 356 the following:

 

``357. Incentive pay authorities for members of the reserve components

           of the armed forces.''.

 

    (c) <>  Report.--Not later than September

30, 2022, the Secretary of Defense shall submit to the Committees on

Armed Services of the Senate and House of Representatives a report

containing--

            (1) <>  the plan of the Secretary to implement

        section 357 of such title, as added by subsection (a);

            (2) <>  an estimate of the costs of

        such implementation;

            (3) the number of members described in such section; and

            (4) <>  any other matter the Secretary

        determines relevant.

 

    (d) Implementation Date.--The Secretary may not implement section

357 of such title, as added by subsection (a) until after--

            (1) submission of the report under subsection (b); and

            (2) <>  the Secretary

        determines and certifies in writing to the Committees on Armed

        Services of the Senate and House of Representatives that such

        implementation shall not have a detrimental effect on the force

        structure of an Armed Force concerned, including with regard to

        recruiting or retention of members in the regular component of

        such Armed Force.

[Homestar]

55 minutes ago, Danger41 said:

I know financially it makes sense to get to the airlines ASAFP and never look back. I unfortunately suffer from delusions of grandeur and Stockholm Syndrome and don't really want to leave the job that I wanted to get for my entire life. I'm also not totally selfish and know that my family could really benefit from the extra $$ in an airline career. In my current and future job I will absolutely be gone from home more as an airline guy than an AF pilot. YMMV on that one, big time. It's a no brainer to me that (in my own situation) the only extenuating variable is money. Why not pay up?

I have a unique perspective on all this stuff though as my dad was an airline pilot that went through not getting hired for awhile, mergers, furloughs, and 9/11. He punched early after 9/11 to try to get back in the AF as a 59 year old retired O-5 but they didn't want him to fly tankers so he just retired. Even I tried to jump right to the airlines in mid-2020 and that wasn't exactly good timing. All that to say is that I know more about the airlines than the average Joe that never experienced any of that stuff and has just been living the good life the last few years.

Honestly the hardest part for me is thinking back on some missions where my crew and the team writ large was able to make a big difference and bring Americans home from some pretty hairy situations. I know that's stupid and you've got to move on but that type of feeling is nagging me more than I thought it would. 

 

I feel you there. Though I didn't have a lifetime dream of flying in the Air Force growing up.

There is more to flying in the Air Force than a paycheck. I enjoy my job. I like my coworkers. Job satisfaction is high for me right now. I'm also at the end of my career and am transitioning to the civilian sector where my flying training will be properly valued (at least by second year pay--I don't believe that the airlines pay well out of the goodness of their heart). I'm proud of what I've done in the Air Force, I'm grateful for the places I've been, the people I've met, and the missions I've flown.

So many people in life are just angry. Angry at "the Air Force", angry at "the libs", angry at whatever. I also understand that many have had negative experiences in the Air Force. I have too. I was non-vol'd to Afghanistan for 364.5 days during a time where Greens were killing Blues. But I also had doors open from that experience that served me well later in my career.

I wish I made $300/hr plus profit sharing in the Air Force. I'd stay longer. But the money has been good enough and now I'm moving on. And a great big "thank you" for those who leave after their UPT commitment is up too! You served. Most Americans can't say the same. Go make that bank. Buy that boat, plane, or second wife. Enjoy life. Be happy.

Staying in the Air Force isn't for everyone. But it is for some.