Aviation Continuation Pay (ACP - The Bonus)

[afaf]

On 3/3/2023 at 8:59 AM, tac airlifter said:

I did indoc on personal leave, got a line number and waited a few months for SIMs before starting terminal.  Not at Delta though, they're hard up about it.

A big draw to early CJO is that some people will be less competitive immediately before separation due to loss of currency 12 months earlier.  The AF has been known to people getting out by taking them off the line. 

@tac airlifter hey man, I'm in a similar boat with a couple CJOs and separating this fall.  I've been planning for this and amassed a big leave total since we were allowed with the COVID overages.  I'm planning over a hundred days of terminal, but right now it's biting me in the ass because I can't get orders in a timely manner.  If I'm lucky I'll have them less than 30 days before starting terminal.  I was wondering if something like indoc on personal leave was possible, but figured I'd have to do that form allowing me to have a second job.  How'd you get that all to work out? DM me if you'd rather message off the public forum.  Thanks in advance.  

[BroncoEN]

5 hours ago, afaf said:

@tac airlifter hey man, I'm in a similar boat with a couple CJOs and separating this fall.  I've been planning for this and amassed a big leave total since we were allowed with the COVID overages.  I'm planning over a hundred days of terminal, but right now it's biting me in the ass because I can't get orders in a timely manner.  If I'm lucky I'll have them less than 30 days before starting terminal.  I was wondering if something like indoc on personal leave was possible, but figured I'd have to do that form allowing me to have a second job.  How'd you get that all to work out? DM me if you'd rather message off the public forum.  Thanks in advance.  

Not sure who you have CJOs for and I can only speak for Delta Air Lines, they will not let you attend indoc on personal leave. Must be terminal. 

[FLEA]

5 hours ago, afaf said:

@tac airlifter hey man, I'm in a similar boat with a couple CJOs and separating this fall.  I've been planning for this and amassed a big leave total since we were allowed with the COVID overages.  I'm planning over a hundred days of terminal, but right now it's biting me in the ass because I can't get orders in a timely manner.  If I'm lucky I'll have them less than 30 days before starting terminal.  I was wondering if something like indoc on personal leave was possible, but figured I'd have to do that form allowing me to have a second job.  How'd you get that all to work out? DM me if you'd rather message off the public forum.  Thanks in advance.  

So... Speaking from recent experience..... Did you know if you wanted orders earlier than the standard 60 days prior or whatever that you need to go into vMPF and request expedited orders for terminal leave/SkillBridge.....

 

Because I didn't know that and no one told me until almost too late. 

[Scooter14]

Indoc while on terminal leave is the answer 

100%


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[Scooter14]

Indoc while on terminal leave is the answer 

100%


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[BroncoEN]

On 4/17/2022 at 10:16 PM, ViperStud said:

It’s better to go guard, get into an AGR position (fairly easy as a Maj), sign a bonus for the same amount and remain a free agent - if you curtail your orders you only owe money back if you didn’t serve it out. All the benefit, none of the ADSC. 
 

AD bonus is for those who were staying anyway…and complete suckers. 

Trying to decipher the FY22 ANG AvB policy. If you take AGR orders, sign a 3-year AvB, and have to curtail the orders for one reason or another (but stay DSG and serve all 3 years in one capacity or another)… do you pay it all back? 
 

4.7 Recoupment of Payment

   4.7.1.3 Member does not serve the agreed-upon period… all previous AvB payments are considered a debt and full amount recouped.

But then it states later:

5.2.1 Tier 1 Pilot (bonus)

5.2.1.3 Failure to serve the full agreement duration of service under this agreement will result in full recoupment of bonus monies IAW para 4.7.

5.2.1.4 Reduced Rate. A member on Tier 1 AvB who is no longer AGR will be subject to a reduced annual payment of $15,000 … and will remain at that reduced rate for the remaining length of their agreement. 
 

Trying to decipher, does 4.7.1.3 only apply if you completely separate from the ANG before 3 years (not stay DSG )? Or does it mean if you don’t serve out the AGR orders you owe it all back.

The reduced rate paragraph makes it seem like your bonus will just switch to $15K per year as a DSG until the 3-year contract is over. 

[Guardian]

Indoc while on terminal leave is the answer 

And from what I’m told any time you are finishing orders it can be considered terminal for the airlines purposes. Not sure if that’s written any where. And it just needs to be in conjunction with your orders ending. I’ve been told Delta will accept that in letter from your commander.

[Guardian]

Trying to decipher the FY22 ANG AvB policy. If you take AGR orders, sign a 3-year AvB, and have to curtail the orders for one reason or another (but stay DSG and serve all 3 years in one capacity or another)… do you pay it all back? 
 
4.7 Recoupment of Payment
   4.7.1.3 Member does not serve the agreed-upon period… all previous AvB payments are considered a debt and full amount recouped.
But then it states later:
5.2.1 Tier 1 Pilot (bonus)
5.2.1.3 Failure to serve the full agreement duration of service under this agreement will result in full recoupment of bonus monies IAW para 4.7.
5.2.1.4 Reduced Rate. A member on Tier 1 AvB who is no longer AGR will be subject to a reduced annual payment of $15,000 … and will remain at that reduced rate for the remaining length of their agreement. 
 
Trying to decipher, does 4.7.1.3 only apply if you completely separate from the ANG before 3 years (not stay DSG )? Or does it mean if you don’t serve out the AGR orders you owe it all back.
The reduced rate paragraph makes it seem like your bonus will just switch to $15K per year as a DSG until the 3-year contract is over. 

Is the new guard reserve bonus out?

[BroncoEN]

27 minutes ago, Guardian said:

Is the new guard reserve bonus out?

Not yet, just planning assuming the new bonus will have the same verbiage 

[Guardian]

I believe at the end of the year you have to prove you were on full time orders in order to be shown as eligible to receive your in arrears payment. I’m not sure if you can or can’t come off AGR into MPA or like full time status. No missed days. And I don’t believe you bounce between different bonus options and amounts. Talk to your local bonus coordinator and if he/she doesn’t know, have them ask their NGB A1 bonus rep and then report back here for everyone’s benefit.

IE you can’t keep a full time bonus if you aren’t eligible at the end of the year

[brabus]

Pretty sure the bonus announcement states for each tier how much of it you must serve to avoid recoupment. Serve is defined as not curtailing the orders. For example I think this last 4 year option was you had to not curtail until after 2 years in order to avoid recoupment of those first 2 years, then you would not receive any further bonus payments. 

[hindsight2020]

Dont do the crime if ya cant do the time. Its called retention for a reason ya golden corral buffet-raiding double dippers! Im being cheeky btw, before one hundred and twenty one white knights of the ATP table get umbraged and come for my head.

Story from the way back machine, which for you non lost decade polyannas is merely 2014 lol. So Dude gets soviet sub commander CJO right as the gates are opening up again, then goes to curtail AGR as a bonus taker cuz you know, #yolo. Oops retention means things. Needs of the air force reserves. Denied. CCCP navy was so backed up back then he didnt get training dates so they never knew he sped. By the time bonus RSC expired his preferred caller gave him a cjo and our fine prince lived happily ever after...well, after he got in a kerfuffle with a gaining unit over double commuting pressures, got divorced and lost the house the kids and all his cash , and eventually quit the airforce over aforementioned kerfuffle, leaving 13.69 years of combined AD/AGR time and a sizeable reserve retirement on the table in the ultimate airline money flex...point being, alls well that ends well, i think?

Anyhoo, if one resembles or feels like one could resemble the remark, do life easy, dont bother with the bonus. Its small fry money for you  121 balla's anyways. 

[Guardian]

Cool thing is in the guard you can get out of this bonus as it isn’t an ADSC

[SocialD]

24 minutes ago, Guardian said:

Cool thing is in the guard you can get out of this bonus as it isn’t an ADSC

 

 

As long as your TAG signs off on curtailment.  Watch out for those Army TAGs...they do some weird shit.  Haven't seen it happen in our state, though supposedly we had a TAG threaten to deny curtailment.  Sounds like someone talked some sense into him.  

[Fly4five]

Visit from Aircrew Retention Taskforce happened this past week.
Here's the latest:
1. The pilot bonus will be capped at $50,000 annually however you will have to sign up early to get that amount. This year anyone signing up early (1-3 years away from ADSC) will receive the full 50k per year but starting next year you only get the 50k if you sign up 3 years in advance so say your ADSC expires in 2028 you would have to sign the intent to stay in sometime in 2025. It's $45,000 if you wait until 2 years and so on.
2. Base assignment preference is also another option you can add but it adds an additional 2 years not concurrent with your pilot commitment.
3. Aviation pay cap has increased to $1500 and the structure for receiving it is changing quite a bit. It is incentivizing upgrades by paying the most to evaluators and the least to copilots. But if you for example FAIP and are immediately an instructor you will receive more pay right of the bat and don't lose it once you change your airframe. This is nice so you never have to start over and it incentivizes FAIPing.
4. They are also looking to pay school house instructors more than line instructors to incentivize going to AETC for a tour.
5. Special Pay is also something being considered for WIC, TPS, AIC, AIS). Nothing final for this but it is something they are considering.

No word when this will be in writing and implemented but all we can do is hope for the near future

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[FLEA]

14 minutes ago, Fly4five said:

Visit from Aircrew Retention Taskforce happened this past week.
Here's the latest:
1. The pilot bonus will be capped at $50,000 annually however you will have to sign up early to get that amount. This year anyone signing up early (1-3 years away from ADSC) will receive the full 50k per year but starting next year you only get the 50k if you sign up 3 years in advance so say your ADSC expires in 2028 you would have to sign the intent to stay in sometime in 2025. It's $45,000 if you wait until 2 years and so on.
2. Base assignment preference is also another option you can add but it adds an additional 2 years not concurrent with your pilot commitment.
3. Aviation pay cap has increased to $1500 and the structure for receiving it is changing quite a bit. It is incentivizing upgrades by paying the most to evaluators and the least to copilots. But if you for example FAIP and are immediately an instructor you will receive more pay right of the bat and don't lose it once you change your airframe. This is nice so you never have to start over and it incentivizes FAIPing.
4. They are also looking to pay school house instructors more than line instructors to incentivize going to AETC for a tour.
5. Special Pay is also something being considered for WIC, TPS, AIC, AIS). Nothing final for this but it is something they are considering.

No word when this will be in writing and implemented but all we can do is hope for the near future

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Lol

[Best-22]

1 hour ago, Fly4five said:

Visit from Aircrew Retention Taskforce happened this past week.
Here's the latest:
1. The pilot bonus will be capped at $50,000 annually however you will have to sign up early to get that amount. This year anyone signing up early (1-3 years away from ADSC) will receive the full 50k per year but starting next year you only get the 50k if you sign up 3 years in advance so say your ADSC expires in 2028 you would have to sign the intent to stay in sometime in 2025. It's $45,000 if you wait until 2 years and so on.
2. Base assignment preference is also another option you can add but it adds an additional 2 years not concurrent with your pilot commitment.
3. Aviation pay cap has increased to $1500 and the structure for receiving it is changing quite a bit. It is incentivizing upgrades by paying the most to evaluators and the least to copilots. But if you for example FAIP and are immediately an instructor you will receive more pay right of the bat and don't lose it once you change your airframe. This is nice so you never have to start over and it incentivizes FAIPing.
4. They are also looking to pay school house instructors more than line instructors to incentivize going to AETC for a tour.
5. Special Pay is also something being considered for WIC, TPS, AIC, AIS). Nothing final for this but it is something they are considering.

No word when this will be in writing and implemented but all we can do is hope for the near future

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Did they specify how long the extra commitment is if you sign up early? Or is there options like 1, 3, 5 years and so on?

 

Also if you sign up for 3 extra years and take the bonus 3 years early do you get 50,000 per year for 6 years, or only the first 3 years before you extra commitment even starts?

[Fly4five]

I think you tell them how long your commitment will be and you'll receive 50k or whatever for every year you're committed too. Basically the same as it is now. They just want to grab people early now to get em before they smarten up and go to the airlines

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[Scooter14]

Visit from Aircrew Retention Taskforce happened this past week.
Here's the latest:

3. Aviation pay cap has increased to $1500 and the structure for receiving it is changing quite a bit. It is incentivizing upgrades by paying the most to evaluators and the least to copilots. But if you for example FAIP and are immediately an instructor you will receive more pay right of the bat and don't lose it once you change your airframe. This is nice so you never have to start over and it incentivizes FAIPing.

4. They are also looking to pay school house instructors more than line instructors to incentivize going to AETC for a tour.

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Interesting

I applaud them for at least recognizing that you should incentivize additional quals. I mean, I don’t know how much it will help but it’s warranted.

The cynic in me will believe it when I see it.

The cynic in me also remembers when they raised the flight pay back around 2015-2016 and we were all erroneously paid for years due to the inability to update the antiquated DOS based mil pay system to properly calculate it.

Now we are going to not only have different amounts due to years of aviation service as well as different qualifications…yeah that won’t get screwed up at all.


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[SocialD]

2 hours ago, Scooter14 said:

Interesting

I applaud them for at least recognizing that you should incentivize additional quals. I mean, I don’t know how much it will help but it’s warranted.

The cynic in me will believe it when I see it.

The cynic in me also remembers when they raised the flight pay back around 2015-2016 and we were all erroneously paid for years due to the inability to update the antiquated DOS based mil pay system to properly calculate it.

Now we are going to not only have different amounts due to years of aviation service as well as different qualifications…yeah that won’t get screwed up at all.

 

 

 

LOL, I thought of the exact same thing.  I think I was told in 2018 that they'd correct our flight pay when they roll out the new pay system 2020 (near future?)!  Well, here it is 2023 and it's still not active.  Near future must have a different meaning to them.  

 

BTW, has this years Guard bonus come out yet?  What's the status on DSG's getting full flight pay?  The part timer bonus that was available to like 6.9 people in the entire ANG. Cynicism is hard to get past when you've seen a career of their bullshit promises.  Take everything with a massive grain of salt.  

Edited March 26, 2023 by SocialD

[hindsight2020]

I don't see the implementation of graduated rates for flight pay (other than longevity) being anything but an unmitigated quagmire, replete with perverse incentives and unsavory second tier effects, to say nothing of the admin clusterfok @SocialD already alluded to.  200-500 taxable dollars hardly seems worth the thought.

[FourFans]

I know some are adverse to facts...however, the $25,000 was established sometime in the early 90's (best I can tell).  Congrats, they basically finally adjusted for inflation...for the first year of the 10 you'll be receiving it.  Have fun with your AFPAK HANDS 2.0 assignment when they create it.  Good work, great incentive.

P.S.  Don't take the bonus.

https://www.bls.gov/data/inflation_calculator.htm

Edited March 27, 2023 by FourFans

[hindsight2020]

So I guess we're taking the bonus? Sounds like a toss up at 217 pages, I think we need more deliberation.... you know, like Congress 😄

 

[08Dawg]

On 3/26/2023 at 9:46 AM, Fly4five said:

3. Aviation pay cap has increased to $1500 and the structure for receiving it is changing quite a bit. It is incentivizing upgrades by paying the most to evaluators and the least to copilots. But if you for example FAIP and are immediately an instructor you will receive more pay right of the bat and don't lose it once you change your airframe. This is nice so you never have to start over and it incentivizes FAIPing.
4. They are also looking to pay school house instructors more than line instructors to incentivize going to AETC for a tour.
5. Special Pay is also something being considered for WIC, TPS, AIC, AIS). Nothing final for this but it is something they are considering.
 

There is ZERO WAY the implementation of this is not completely fucked up like a football bat.  

[CaptainMorgan]

There is ZERO WAY the implementation of this is not completely ed up like a football bat.  

Agreed. They won’t consider everything, like current qual vs highest qual (AC/IP does a Phoenix whatever and has to restart as an FP) vs highest qual effectively held (example: short stint as an EP in MWS, PCS to another base and they revert you to IP). Also, it’s going to make for a lot of brown-nosing the CC to get that higher qual (and pay) and presumably IG complaints when the CC stiffs someone, justifiably or not.


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