Aviation Continuation Pay (ACP - The Bonus)

[Lord Ratner]

That's so.. strange.  Does the early eligible get more money?  You'd think they'd throw more at the on the fence/more experienced (even if only a year) guys who didn't take the other ones.  

 

I guess more people could wait it out then for more cash.. but you'd get an easy crop for 365's and the like.  Unless I'm thinking stupid, which is always possible.

 

Thanks for the info!

You only get more money if you are taking the "9" (long bonus) year bonus instead of the five (short bonus). The short bonus is five years from signing. So you get $125k no matter what. The long bonus is until 20 years of aviation service. Depending on when AFPC gets the bonus out and how long the process takes, it could be 6-12 months between your initial ADSC ending and starting the bonus (either one). By doing the early eligible program you avoid this delay and your new commitment starts immediately after your initial ADSC expires.

For the short bonus that means taking the early option will reduce your mandatory AD time by whatever the processing delay is for the on-time bonus. But since damn near everyone who takes the short bonus stays until retirement, this isn't as big a deal.

For the long bonus your earliest retirement date won't change since it is based on when you started flying, not a set time after signing the bonus paperwork. But by signing early your bonus starts immediately after the initial ADSC ends, instead of 6-12 months later, and you get bonus money for those months.

So TL;DR: For the short bonus, early eligibles can get an earlier separation date. For the long bonus, early eligibles get more money.

[Lord Ratner]

 

So you think the guy who is the mission commander for a 100 aircraft, led the planning and/or the actual mission execution isn't utilizing multiple types of leadership skills?  This is MDS agnostic, but being a mission commander (100 was a large example, but the point still stands for the guy running 20-30 assets) in training and combat is a huge leadership role and by far shadows a lot of other "leadership" roles out there.  Budha made great points above.

Absolutely. My point isn't that flying is devoid of any leadership, but that the idea that what makes one a great leader at the tactical level necessarily translates to being great at the organizational level, is flawed. 

Look at Welsh. Seemingly a great leader at the wing-and-below level (according to others, I was not around in those days), but not making a huge dent at the top.

Sure, I'd love to have AF leaders from the squadron up who are shit-hot in the jet and organizational wizards. I'd choose that guy ten out of ten. But wherever they are, we can't seem to find them. And the military system of job-jumping and hole-filling doesn't lend itself to identifying and positioning those officers who have the skills and experience to manage massive organizations. There's a reason airlines aren't run by pilots and sports teams aren't run by the best athletes. Of course, we like to argue that the military is too different to the civilian world to compare, but the pilots that lead the AF have to deal with cyber, maintenance, acquisitions, space, finance, etc. All areas which they are not tactical experts. 

I think a squadron commander of a flying squadron should be a flying expert, because the squadron is narrowly focused on that task, and it matters to the majority of the people under him/her. I'd rather have my Group/Wing and above leadership allow me to focus on being a flying expert while they deal with the actual purpose of their position. 

[17D_guy]

This seems pertinent - 

Why ‘Charity vs. Selfishness’ should replace the ‘Management vs. Leadership’ dichotomy in our thinking about leaders.

 

https://medium.com/the-bridge/the-three-streams-of-leadership-d76c13d18538

 

[Fuzz]

This seems pertinent - 

Why ‘Charity vs. Selfishness’ should replace the ‘Management vs. Leadership’ dichotomy in our thinking about leaders.

 

https://medium.com/the-bridge/the-three-streams-of-leadership-d76c13d18538

 

Not Related to the thread but to the link posted. I would highly recommend The Strategy Bride (linked above), Military Writers Guild and Defense Entrepreneurs Conference as some great sources of current events, military strategy and leadership. It is an amazing group (of which I'm a member) of military members and civilians that are trying to change things on the ground floor and having some success at it. Check out the link below from the Economist, the group mentioned used by Col. Starr is from the DEF Conference.

https://www.economist.com/news/united-states/21665008-department-defence-can-neither-close-bases-nor-keep-them-working-catch-2015?fsrc=scn%2Ffb%2Fte%2Fpe%2Fed%2Fcatch2015

[TnkrToad]

It's 30 Sep, so thought I'd update everyone really quickly:

FY15 initial pilot take rate = 55.2% (slightly better than last year's 53%, but force management was also in effect last FY)

-- According to last year's report, the take rate would have been 59% without force management. Also, don't forget many folks were given the 20YAS option that wasn't offered to many in the prior FY 

FY15 early pilot take rate = 29% (significantly less than last year's 38% early take rate)

-- This seems an early indicator that take rates will really suck next year

The two communities with the lowest take rates are: Fighter (47.8%) and C2ISR (55.3%)

-- The two communities with the lowest early take rates are: Bomber (17.6%) and Fighter (19.6%)

-- Bottom line, the retention outlook looks really bad for the CAF, but realistically is pretty bad across the board. 

Maybe a whole lotta folks are furiously working their computers and signing the bonus as I write this, and the numbers will significantly change. I suspect not.  

TT

[Breckey]

Except for helos which are at 74% (H-60) and 82% (H-1). Once again confirms that helos rock.

[Karl Hungus]

Except for helos which are at 74% (H-60) and 82% (H-1). Once again confirms that helos rock.

That, and/or the unfortunate perception that getting civilian flying jobs is difficult without significant fixed wing time.

[HeloDude]

That, and/or the unfortunate perception that getting civilian flying jobs is difficult without significant fixed wing time.

Funny--all (yes all) of my helo buddies who have separated or retired have found civilian flying jobs who wanted one.  There's more than just the airlines/cargo carriers.  

[MooseAg03]

Not sure if this belongs here or if we should start a Modernized Retirement thread...

Anyone seen the particulars of the 5% TSP match and retention payments at 12 years of service? Payments are current base pay X 2.5 + base pay X a # of months determined by the secretary. This added to the pilot bonus may make me rethink future plans.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[ThreeHoler]

Not sure if this belongs here or if we should start a Modernized Retirement thread...

Anyone seen the particulars of the 5% TSP match and retention payments at 12 years of service? Payments are current base pay X 2.5 + base pay X a # of months determined by the secretary. This added to the pilot bonus may make me rethink future plans.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

My understanding is that the retention payments would replace all career specific bonuses, but they might have changed it.

[MooseAg03]

My understanding is that the retention payments would replace all career specific bonuses, but they might have changed it.

Figures, why would they do anything that might actually help retain people?

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[Fifty-six & Two]

Final numbers have been posted...55% take rate. They also have the end of year report up if you want to read it.

 

What's alarming (to everyone but Big Blue...nothing to see here) is the fact that the overall pilot loss rate was 61.7%, with almost 71% of eligible mobility pilots leaving (if I'm reading that right). This also leaves the mobility pilot force the youngest out of all the types. What could possibly go wrong?

Edit: I think the percentages of pilots leaving is based upon those eligible to leave during that FY.

[billy pilgrim]

Final numbers have been posted...55% take rate. They also have the end of year report up if you want to read it.

 

What's alarming (to everyone but Big Blue...nothing to see here) is the fact that the overall pilot loss rate was 61.7%, with almost 71% of eligible mobility pilots leaving (if I'm reading that right). This also leaves the mobility pilot force the youngest out of all the types. What could possibly go wrong?

Where is this posted?  Thanks..

[Fifty-six & Two]

Where is this posted?  Thanks..

MyPers website via the portal. There is a link for Air Force Personnel Statistics. It's all the way at the bottom.

[ThreeHoler]

Those of us who stay because we want to are very much in the minority (anecdotally). I have shaken way too many hands recently and said "thanks for your service, is there anything I can do to help you transition out?"

[TnkrToad]

Final numbers have been posted...55% take rate. They also have the end of year report up if you want to read it.

What's alarming (to everyone but Big Blue...nothing to see here) is the fact that the overall pilot loss rate was 61.7%, with almost 71% of eligible mobility pilots leaving (if I'm reading that right). This also leaves the mobility pilot force the youngest out of all the types. What could possibly go wrong?

Edit: I think the percentages of pilots leaving is based upon those eligible to leave during that FY.

A few notes from the final ARP report that seem interesting:

- It doesn't mention the fact that overall take rate decreased significantly from last year (59% in FY14 to 55% in FY15), despite lots more money being thrown at the problem. In FY14, only fighter bubbas were offered the 20 YAS ($225k) option, whereas this year all pilots were. 

- It makes no mention of the fact that the early take rate was significantly lower this year--28.9% (217/751) than it was last year--38.0% (283/745. This would seem a leading indicator of even-lower final take rates next year 

- Separations were way up as well; there were 73 normal separations out of 82 total separations in FY15--the last time this number was so high was in '99/'00 during the last big airline hiring boom

- On an optimistic note, the 71% loss rate among eligible mobility pilots was a marked improvement from the previous year. In FY14, it was 101% (due to force shaping, I'm sure)

Can't wait to see what the rated force managers do with the bonus next year. 

TT

[pcola]

Can't wait to see what the rated force managers do with the bonus next year. 

TT

I think the writing is on the wall ( i.e. The 2016 NDAA). My prediction is bonus goes up to $35K for RPA drivers, stays the same for everyone else. Maybe they delete the 16 year TIS restriction for early/initial eligibles, but I doubt it. Maybe they increase opportunities/amounts for uncommitted eligibles. They are currently processing 15 ETP packages for ineligible pilots requesting the bonus. I do not know if this is normal or not, nor if there is a precedent for approving bonus related policy exceptions, so I can't say if the outcome of those ETPs will have any impact on next year's policy.

[guineapigfury]

I know a guy (11U) who got his ETP approved a few months ago, so the precedent is there.

[Fifty-six & Two]

I know a guy (11U) who got his ETP approved a few months ago, so the precedent is there.

Not sure how that's possible since AFPC doesn't even send them up the chain until after the end of the FY and all eligible applications have been processed (they just sent them up late this week). It may have been sent up by his leadership, but nothing has been approved by HAF/A1P.

[TnkrToad]

My prediction is bonus goes up to $35K for RPA drivers, stays the same for everyone else. 

Why would the bonus go up for RPA pilots, when 11Us had the second-highest take rate of all pilot types (after 11Hs)? 

[guineapigfury]

Not sure how that's possible since AFPC doesn't even send them up the chain until after the end of the FY and all eligible applications have been processed (they just sent them up late this week). It may have been sent up by his leadership, but nothing has been approved by HAF/A1P.

He'd been waiting a while, it may have been sent the previous fiscal year.

[BFM this]

Why would the bonus go up for RPA pilots, when 11Us had the second-highest take rate of all pilot types (after 11Hs)? 

Soupe du jour

[pcola]

Why would the bonus go up for RPA pilots, when 11Us had the second-highest take rate of all pilot types (after 11Hs)? 

Taken from H.R.1735-115:

INCREASE IN MAXIMUM AMOUNT OF AVIATION SPECIAL PAYS FOR FLYING DUTY OF REMOTELY PILOTED AIRCRAFT.—Subsection ©(1) of such section is amended— (1) in subparagraph (A), by striking ‘‘exceed $850 per month; and'' and inserting ‘‘exceed— ‘‘(i) $1,000 per month for officers performing quali-fying flying duty relating to remotely piloted aircraft (RPA); or ‘‘(ii) $850 per month for officers performing other qualifying flying duty; and''; and (2) in subparagraph (B), by striking ‘‘$25,000'' and all that follows and inserting ‘‘, for each 12-month period of obligated service agreed to under subsection (d)— ‘‘(i) $35,000 for officers performing qualifying flying duty relating to remotely piloted aircraft; or ‘‘(ii) $25,000 for officers performing other quali-fying flying duty.''.

[Chicken]

Taken from H.R.1735-115:

INCREASE IN MAXIMUM AMOUNT OF AVIATION SPECIAL PAYS FOR FLYING DUTY OF REMOTELY PILOTED AIRCRAFT.—Subsection ©(1) of such section is amended— (1) in subparagraph (A), by striking ‘‘exceed $850 per month; and'' and inserting ‘‘exceed— ‘‘(i) $1,000 per month for officers performing quali-fying flying duty relating to remotely piloted aircraft (RPA); or ‘‘(ii) $850 per month for officers performing other qualifying flying duty; and''; and (2) in subparagraph (B), by striking ‘‘$25,000'' and all that follows and inserting ‘‘, for each 12-month period of obligated service agreed to under subsection (d)— ‘‘(i) $35,000 for officers performing qualifying flying duty relating to remotely piloted aircraft; or ‘‘(ii) $25,000 for officers performing other quali-fying flying duty.''.

If I am at the 14 year point.. and decide to go RPA, does this $35000 apply to me?  If not, what would I get as a RPA dude?

[AlifBaa]

Reading through the current law, it's clear our service isn't maximizing its current authorities.  

1.  The law allows for a $25K bonus to be paid to any pilot who has completed their initial UPT commitment.  That isn't being done as there are still restrictions on eligibility (essentially no late rateds and no one over 20 YAS are eligible).  The $35K bonus for RPA only brings the bonus in line with inflation since the bonus' inception ~2000.  

2.  The secretary has the authority to increase flight pay to $850/month for all pilots.  A great many of the pilots who left in the last year were not eligible for the $850 payment.  

2a.  As far back as I can remember (1996 I think), flight pay has topped out at $850/month and followed the same seniority structure.  In current dollars, flight pay should top out at $1,300 if you held it constant from that time.  I'm fairly certain it topped at $850 long before then.  In other words, the secretary (many secretaries, actually) have allowed flight pay to be eroded by roughly 2/3 without acting within their authority to mitigate even a portion of the decline.  In that light, the service's request of $1,000 for RPA pilots only is a slap in everyone's face -- they're trying to get off cheap.  

Bottom line, until we see the Secretary maximizing the use of her current authorities -- even just for RPA pilots -- the service isn't serious about pilot retention.  The argument with congress today ought to be for a dramatic increase in flight pay and a $35K bonus for all.  Selected groups (determined by significantly lower retention rates combined with lower manning percentages) should be getting even more.  Doing so will encourage members of lower-stressed communities to move to more challenged assignments.

Source: GPO, Inflation