Aviation Continuation Pay (ACP - The Bonus)

[xaarman]

Definitely man, sometimes sarcastic tones doesn't translate well over the internets.

Edited February 21, 2016 by xaarman

[Fuzz]

1 hour ago, xaarman said:

Definitely man, sometimes sarcastic tones doesn't translate well over the internets.

My apologies, further proof for the need of a sarcasm font. The sarcasm mirrors reality so closely now a days, its hard to tell the difference.

[Homestar]

It's just a job. The Air Force is just a business. This way I don't get my feels hurt when the Air Force does stupid stuff.

[Guardian]

What meeting?

Too lazy to scroll up.

[snoopyeast]

On 2/21/2016 at 6:21 AM, Jaded said:

You forgot, "We don't really understand why people are leaving. Can you give us feedback (yet again) so we may make real, lasting change at the Air Force level?"

Soon after the last rounds of RIF/VSP mass exodus, some people came from the NAF to ask those of us still in what our thoughts were on the current state of the AF.   Someone from the squadron told the NAF folks that the AF missed a golden opportunity by not asking the VSPers why they wanted to get out.  This was met with the deer in the headlights look from the visitors.   Probably because of the reasons listed above.  Quitters!

[Prozac]

1 hour ago, Butters said:

Retire in December. I will let you know.

Not if stop loss gets here first. 

[Smokin]

I know far more guys who have been hired than guys who are still waiting for a call.

[sqwatch]

Nope, can't do both! Well, I could go to one then the other... Long story short I may not be able to work at BT&E due to Nepotism rules. Good, because if that is the case the Boeing check that goes in our account is getting bigger. My choice to do airlines now rests on the fact we want a bigger boat. I can be a QOL guy and make that happen. If I go stay at home dad I have to keep my 45 foot boat. Choices... Oh, and there was a 7 hour line for United at NGPA, thought the airlines would have hired all these pilots by now? PNW Aviation conference had over 600 people taking to Alaska trying to get 80-130 jobs. Pilots shortages suck. 

When I asked "where is butters", this is exactly what I was looking for.

[matmacwc]

Wait, did Butters admit he might go airlines?

[Jughead]

19 minutes ago, matmacwc said:

Wait, did Butters admit he might go airlines?

Not only that, he doesn't need any prep....

[matmacwc]

In his defense I know guys that got hired without it.

[Duck]

But did they have Butter's magnetic personality?

God knows we love you Butters.

[TnkrToad]

Some recent news, relevant to the bonus discussion:

I must have been asleep at the wheel, but Republic Airways filed for bankruptcy six days ago, citing a pilot shortage. If they and other regionals fix their shortages by offering reasonable wages, this could provide all the more incentive for folks to bail from AD. 

https://www.forbes.com/sites/grantmartin/2016/02/26/republic-airways-files-for-bankruptcy/#b583c9712fc4

The CSAF testified before Congress yesterday re: pilot retention issues. According to the article,  "The Air Force also wants to increase retention pay for both manned and unmanned pilots to $35,000 a year—a move Congress will have to sign off on." I almost laughed out loud when I read Welsh called it a "long-awaited" issue. I can't square that rhetoric with the reality of recent pilot force management.

https://www.airforcemag.com/DRArchive/Pages/2016/March%202016/March%2003%202016/Welsh-The-Pilot-Retention-Problem-is-Here.aspx

The last update of bonus take rate stats was posted on 8 Feb--almost four weeks ago. I suspect it's because they've gotten few new takers, so nothing new to report.  

TT

[nunya]

If the regionals fix their pay, the AF won't just have a problem with retention; they'll have a problem with recruiting.  I had a student in primary that left the regionals for the Navy mainly due to the low pay.  O-2s make more than regional FOs.  Can't quote stats, but there are certainly some AF pilots that joined because the civilian path wasn't financially realistic.

[Guardian]

It's the governments problem requiring 1500 hours to fly for the airlines. People that spend that much money on flying don't want to work for 20-40k for 5 or more years.

[Guardian]

All of the airlines and the pilot unions should get together and approach the gov with a better plan than the one in place now for the faas knee jerk reaction.

[Orbit]

"To address the problem, USAF is maximizing schoolhouse capacity in an effort to increase pilot production, it's revisiting the operational demand signal for pilots in non-flying jobs, and is working with RAND Corp. to assess the net effects of the airlines' hiring surge, said Welsh."

[MooseAg03]

"To address the problem, USAF is maximizing schoolhouse capacity in an effort to increase pilot production, it's revisiting the operational demand signal for pilots in non-flying jobs, and is working with RAND Corp. to assess the net effects of the airlines' hiring surge, said Welsh."

I'm here, send me to any manned airframe. It's not just a retention problem due to external forces, they've pissed off thousands of experienced pilots by locking them in GCSs for the foreseeable future. I don't know one person in my situation (non-vol to RPA crossflow) who isn't looking for the fastest exit. You want to fix this shit? Get us back into a cockpit.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[ned1]

My friends, it is only a matter of supply and demand. It is YOUR labor for sale. And you must demand a fair compensation for what is being required

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I747 using Tapatalk

[Longhorn15]

The proposal to increase the bonus to $35K just barely covers inflation from 2000-2016.  $25K in 2000 = $34,325 today.

The other pay factor worthy of discussion is the ACIP.  Hasn't increased in the critical 6-14 year range since 1990.  $650 in 1990 = $1178 today.

Pay won't keep everyone in, but it certainly won't hurt to take us back to pay rates on par or better than the 2000 era, which was the last time the AF was worried about retention.

[HeloDude]

4 minutes ago, Longhorn15 said:

Pay won't keep everyone in, but it certainly won't hurt to take us back to pay rates on par or better than the 2000 era, which was the last time the AF was worried about retention.

If increased pay (via increases in flight pay and bonus) are an issue for Capt/Maj X, then my suggestion is for that individual to get out at the initial commitment and go to the airlines--just an objective observation/suggestion without any emotions.

I think it's becoming more clear today than ever (at least in recent times)--you either want to stay in the AF or you don't.  Neither decision is necessarily right or wrong, just personal preference.  It just makes the decision much easier when there are better job opportunities (i.e. airlines are hiring) on the outside.  

[Smokin]

Pay may not be the only issue, but it never hurts.  For me it was a large combination of factors, for some (like dudes stuck in preds) its a single issue.  Pay is also one of the easier problems to solve from a bureaucracy standpoint.  I doubt many here who are coming up on their decision could honestly say that pay was not a consideration.  Maybe not the single consideration, but at least a consideration.

[Duck]

As it stands right now, you couldn't pay me enough to stay in. Now fix some of the issues, get rid of the terrible middle management leadership, get rid of the bs deployments that contribute nothing but keep me away from my family for 6 months, end 365s and I would stay 20+

[Goblin]

As it stands right now, you couldn't pay me enough to stay in. Now fix some of the issues, get rid of the terrible middle management leadership, get rid of the bs deployments that contribute nothing but keep me away from my family for 6 months, end 365s and I would stay 20+

This

[SnapLock]

10 hours ago, TnkrToad said:

 

The CSAF testified before Congress yesterday re: pilot retention issues. According to the article,  "The Air Force also wants to increase retention pay for both manned and unmanned pilots to $35,000 a year—a move Congress will have to sign off on."

What a laugh!  If anyone thinks that this is going to put even a small dent in the retention problem they are dead wrong!  Looking at this objectively, it took 2 decades and a severe pilot retention problem for the Air Force to ask Congress for this increase which only barely corrects the old bonus for inflation.  Ridiculous.  I'm right at the end of my commitment and for my own personal desires and situation it's not about the money.  However, for the bonus to factor into my decision making and PERHAPS entice me into staying to 20 it would have to be $50K minimum.  Even then the bonus comes into account only after significant increases in quality of life, changes to the promotion system, an end to the social experiments and having more senior leaders with integrity and a true desire to serve others instead of themselves.