Aviation Continuation Pay (ACP - The Bonus)

[schokie]

For the longest time I thought it was Rainman back to have some fun with us . But now it's gotten so sad and I don't think he would have stooped this low for a laugh. 

[pawnman]

On 5/15/2016 at 10:42 PM, BAMF69 said:

Yikes! sign me up now! I am 50+, stayed in shape, and had my eyes fixed with PRK (which sucked...). If the AF needs pilots tell me where to go to sign up! I'll even wave the bonus... I know... I am dreaming, but damn, wish I had a shot back in the day. 

Anyway, It is actually quite concerning that the sentiment on this board is so negative against the job. Is it our good buddy Obama that has pretty much dismantled the military? Can't wait till that SOB is gone.

It's not Obama...we've done this to ourselves.

[pawnman]

On 5/15/2016 at 11:08 PM, General Chang said:

Guys, this is easy from the AF perspective...if we start having a significant long-term problem with retention, we'll stop-loss in the near term and move to 15-yr commitments long term.  Take it to the bank.  And before you pilots start whining on this forum, you knew this would be a possibility when you signed on the bottom line.

The more of your friends that take the bonus, the longer we can put off S.L. and expanded commitments.

I can't wait to see senior leaders explain why we are stop-lossing pilots less than two years after we paid a bunch of them to get out voluntarily.

[pawnman]

18 hours ago, Magellan said:

Fewer and fewer young people want to be pilots let alone military pilots.  Sorry to break it to you, but Top Gun has run out of gas as a recruiting tool.  And anyone smart enough to fire up Google can read this forum.  So just keep educating them.

I have been around young people interested in flying, and countless times heard them be told to not fly for the military because, "they are smart enough to make enough money that they can just fly for fun."  Then to have retired military pilots tell them in the same conversation that "it isn't like it used to be."  The best I can do after that is to keep a straight face and say nothing, because they are both telling that kid the truth.  But what do I know I am not an A-1 genius that got us here.

As far as the RPA stuff goes the Air Force is just jumping from one coat hanger abortion of an idea to the next to try and solve that manning problem.  And right now the AF is paying General Atomics 250,000 - 400,000 a year per pilot to fly RPAs.  Depending on if they deploy or not.

That is the truth from the real world.  Sorry Chang you may be right about Air Force personnel policy and what the general staff is doing, but that doesn't make you an expert on the rest of the stuff you are spouting off about.

I'm now at the point where, when asked for advice about joining the Air Force, my first response is "don't".

[Duck]

Same here, and it hurts me to say it.

[ViperStud]

One of two things is true: he's either (1) an FGO at best with enough insight into our GO leadership to confirm our suspicion that they're completely out of touch or (2) actually an 0-7ish who has been pissed at pilots for 20 yrs and relishes the opportunity to spout off to us behind the anonymity of the interwebs.  Either way, the result is the same: confirmation that senior leadership has fornicated away rated manning and ignored the obvious for years, only to hide behind money and core values. Sorry dipshit, your reference to core values will get only laughter from most of us. Gearpig shacked it. Yes, I will call you a dipshit regardless of your rank because you are one. Authority is issued commensurate with rank; respect is still earned and your ilk have earned none. If you were here in person I'd save the "dipshit" name calling but tell you the same thing: the problems you are trying to solve are of your own creation; your peers and their predecessors are bad leaders.

 

Funny thing is that I actually enjoyed my AD time, got good assignments and never left a jet. I was going to school and would have been taken care of. I left without a bitter taste in my mouth. After 20 months of life in the ANG, I look back and realize how fooked AD really is and all I can do is laugh. The grass is so much greener on this side that another $10-20K/yr won't fix the problem - yet that's your only tangible solution in the short term. 

 

To to those of you on the fence, get out before stop-loss is invoked. Heed Chang's words and read between the lines - it will have to get substantially worse until leadership realizes their tactics are completely ineffective. Only then can real change happen.

[Day Man]

3 hours ago, Danger41 said:

I'm willing to bet he is a jokester Captain somewhere absolutely laughing his ass off at the massive freak outs he can induce. 

 

2 hours ago, Ram said:

If true, that's some world class trolling.

I hope it's trolling...

 

2 hours ago, schokie said:

For the longest time I thought it was Rainman back to have some fun with us . But now it's gotten so sad and I don't think he would have stooped this low for a laugh. 

I think it's DFresh, increasing traffic and lining his own pockets.

[General Chang]

Ok, a couple of you appear upset, but for the young guys on this forum, I'll state a similar message to my post on the SOS/ACSC board, then pull up my tent stakes on this issue.  Our Air Force is honorable, lethal, and excellent.  It is an organization that many in society would kill to be a part of.  Some members of this forum have thrown that opportunity down the tubes during an emotional event.  If you decide to leave, make sure you do it for the right personal reasons.  The future opportunities in our AF will be incredible.  You will be personally, monetarily, and professionally satisfied and rewarded.  Get excited and be a part of it.  It's your future.

[Magnum]

43 minutes ago, General Chang said:

Our Air Force is honorable, lethal, and excellent. 

You sound like an SOS instructor.  And the lethality of the USAF is decreasing every day you fail at retaining experienced pilots while forcing those who are staying to do every job but tactical protecting American and her interests job. 

[ViperStud]

I think a big part of what you're missing is that due to several problems created by poor leadership over quite some time, this has just become another job. The Airman's creed is a joke, a poor attempt at a PC credo that rings hollow.  Even the core values have been eroded; how stupid would I be to blindly assume them to be infallible guidance when it is so clear that big blue leadership does not?

The end result is that this has become just another job to many of us, and right now the competition for our skills is high. It's a seller's market. If you want to compete, you have to make the JOB better. You'll never compete with airlines (and several other careers; I'm not personally targeting airlines) on money alone, even with higher bonuses.  You can't honestly think $35K/yr will make the bonus numbers stop sagging, so something needs to be done to fundamentally change the fact that the rank and file view this as just another job. 

[SurelySerious]

Our Air Force is honorable, lethal, and excellent..

What do you think our Air Force does? And who's being honorable? You're just saying random catch phrases.

[2niner]

Combine a young exposure to aviation with some early 2000s patriotism and the result is yours truly. After seeing how awesome I look in a flight suit with my sleeves rolled up, having to repeatedly tell young women that I'm married and having seen the vapes trail off my strakes from an aggressive closed pattern, my kids will undoubtedly want to follow in my footsteps. I'm already thinking about the conversation that I hope will inform them of the unseen surprises that lurk in a bureaucracy - Changs decide your next assignment, chicks don't dig droid operators, you get yelled at if your sleeves aren't around your wrists and Santa is not real.

Reading through this thread, and posts like the one above, is quite disconcerting. I am a civ pilot select headed for OTS sometime in the future and this thread certainly has opened my eyes to some of the problems the AF is facing right now. Just the thought of going to Reapers after UPT makes me nauseous. Some questions if you'll indulge me: Knowing what you know now, being in for 5, 10, 20 years, if you could go back and tell your younger self "Don't join!" would your younger self have listened? Would you regret it 10 years down the road having not joined?

I suppose it says something about my overall commitment to join that an online forum would cause me to re-think my future career as a military pilot. You all make valid points, but there have to be some redeeming qualities to being an AF pilot.

I apologize if this is too much of a digression for this thread's topic. I was just reading through so I thought I'd post it here.

 

[Smokin]

7 hours ago, General Chang said:

Ok, a couple of you appear upset, ...  It's your future.

It is our future and our lives which is why people are upset.  Rather than contemptuously dismissing what pilots are saying about their career fields, maybe you should listen and take to heart what the people who are the closest to the issue have to say.

[BashiChuni]

is my ADSC up yet? 

[RTB]

No way Chang is anyone other than an O-3/4 trolling the shit out of this board.  His statements are so outlandish there's no way it's legit inside info.  He does a pretty good job of using targeted statements that he knows will get everyone way spun up.  

Ignore him, he's just having a good time watching everyone freak out.

 

[Duck]

Reading through this thread, and posts like the one above, is quite disconcerting. I am a civ pilot select headed for OTS sometime in the future and this thread certainly has opened my eyes to some of the problems the AF is facing right now. Just the thought of going to Reapers after UPT makes me nauseous. Some questions if you'll indulge me: Knowing what you know now, being in for 5, 10, 20 years, if you could go back and tell your younger self "Don't join!" would your younger self have listened? Would you regret it 10 years down the road having not joined?

I suppose it says something about my overall commitment to join that an online forum would cause me to re-think my future career as a military pilot. You all make valid points, but there have to be some redeeming qualities to being an AF pilot.

I apologize if this is too much of a digression for this thread's topic. I was just reading through so I thought I'd post it here.

 

If you were my son/daughter I would tell you this: the only redeeming part of the Air Force is the flying and some of the people, however a lot of the good guys are getting out and you have no guarantee to fly post-UPT. These are facts not emotionally derived opinions. If you just can't shake your desire to fly for the Air Force, go ANG, you will be so glad you did. They have problems too, but not even a speck of AD bull$hit.

[RTB]

5 hours ago, 2niner said:

Reading through this thread, and posts like the one above, is quite disconcerting. I am a civ pilot select headed for OTS sometime in the future and this thread certainly has opened my eyes to some of the problems the AF is facing right now. Just the thought of going to Reapers after UPT makes me nauseous. Some questions if you'll indulge me: Knowing what you know now, being in for 5, 10, 20 years, if you could go back and tell your younger self "Don't join!" would your younger self have listened? Would you regret it 10 years down the road having not joined?

I suppose it says something about my overall commitment to join that an online forum would cause me to re-think my future career as a military pilot. You all make valid points, but there have to be some redeeming qualities to being an AF pilot.

I apologize if this is too much of a digression for this thread's topic. I was just reading through so I thought I'd post it here.

 

I retired a year ago so my data is a year old.  That said, and despite the incredible amount of queep that defines the modern Air Force, I would absolutely do it again.  As a kid I dreamed of flying fighters and I was lucky enough to live that dream for a large portion of my career.  I HATED the queep, begrudgingly went to school when asked, trudged through a year long remote, deployed several times, and even did a short staff gig, but for me, the squadron life, the bros, and the multiple flying assignments were well worth it.  The RPA thing wasn't a UPT option when I went through but I'd tell you that it wouldn't have made a difference.  I just would have used it as motivation to do as well as I possibly could in UPT.  Admittedly, the fun factor declined as I got older because I was given more queep and less flying (as was everyone else), but when that started happening, it was about the same time I was given the options of moving over the ANG or AFRC.  At the time, I chose to stay AD for various reasons but my point is, there were TONS of options to either stay flying exclusively (going Guard/Reserve) or keep pressing in the AD AF.

Everyone's situation is different and some have had bad experiences but my recommendation is don't let that scare you.  Very few will ever have the chance to fly an Air Force aircraft.  Go for it.

[guineapigfury]

6 hours ago, 2niner said:

Reading through this thread, and posts like the one above, is quite disconcerting. I am a civ pilot select headed for OTS sometime in the future and this thread certainly has opened my eyes to some of the problems the AF is facing right now. Just the thought of going to Reapers after UPT makes me nauseous. Some questions if you'll indulge me: Knowing what you know now, being in for 5, 10, 20 years, if you could go back and tell your younger self "Don't join!" would your younger self have listened? Would you regret it 10 years down the road having not joined?

I suppose it says something about my overall commitment to join that an online forum would cause me to re-think my future career as a military pilot. You all make valid points, but there have to be some redeeming qualities to being an AF pilot.

I apologize if this is too much of a digression for this thread's topic. I was just reading through so I thought I'd post it here.

 

Joining the active duty Air Force was the biggest mistake of my life.  I wish I had joined the ANG; hopefully I'll be able to do just that in the next year.  I graduated UPT, got my dream job flying the tanker then had it yanked away a couple years later when I got nonvolled to MQ-9s.

[Homestar]

10 hours ago, 2niner said:

Reading through this thread, and posts like the one above, is quite disconcerting. I am a civ pilot select headed for OTS sometime in the future and this thread certainly has opened my eyes to some of the problems the AF is facing right now. Just the thought of going to Reapers after UPT makes me nauseous. Some questions if you'll indulge me: Knowing what you know now, being in for 5, 10, 20 years, if you could go back and tell your younger self "Don't join!" would your younger self have listened? Would you regret it 10 years down the road having not joined?

I suppose it says something about my overall commitment to join that an online forum would cause me to re-think my future career as a military pilot. You all make valid points, but there have to be some redeeming qualities to being an AF pilot.

I apologize if this is too much of a digression for this thread's topic. I was just reading through so I thought I'd post it here.

 

This thread always blows up when Chang pops in, tosses his grenade, and sits back to watch. I'm not as bitter as others on this thread, but the question of "would I have joined" if I knew then what I know now is a difficult. Unfortunately you just cannot predict how an Air Force career is going to go from the gate. You're signing up for an unpredictable career and sometimes it's going to go off the rails through no fault of your own.

With the ADSC at ten years I think it's reasonable to sign up as a pilot. No other career makes sense to me. It takes 8-10 years of Air Force flying to make airline mins and then you're primed for an airline career. No chance would I sign up for an ADSC of more than ten years.

I signed the 5 year bonus (I became 20 YAS bonus-eligible the next year so I signed that too) for two reasons: 1) I had just finished a non-vol short tour and felt reasonably confident I wouldn't have to do another and 2) I had just gotten a great assignment following the 365 and life would be stable for 4 years. Also, as a IDE candidate I was confident I was not going to school so I saw that as a plus. 

Being an Air Force pilot is cool, but the truth is that it comes with a lot of non-pilot duties for some reason. Some of that stuff can be blown off but some can't without issues. Sign up knowing that you won't be a full time pilot in the Air Force. 

It is still a reasonable and somewhat inexpensive pathway to the airlines. You'll have less debt but it will cost you in other ways. 

Edited May 20, 2016 by Homestar
Spelling

[SurelySerious]

Ok, a couple of you appear upset, but for the young guys on this forum, I'll state a similar message to my post on the SOS/ACSC board, then pull up my tent stakes on this issue.  Our Air Force is honorable, lethal, and excellent.  It is an organization that many in society would kill to be a part of.  Some members of this forum have thrown that opportunity down the tubes during an emotional event.  If you decide to leave, make sure you do it for the right personal reasons.  The future opportunities in our AF will be incredible.  You will be personally, monetarily, and professionally satisfied and rewarded.  Get excited and be a part of it.  It's your future.

Almost forgot:

[tac airlifter]

56 minutes ago, Homestar said:

 Also, as a IDE select I was confident I was not going to school so I saw that as a plus. 

I don't understand that statement.

2niner:  I also signed the 20 year bonus.  I like flying, and even though staff is awful I think I have a good chance of flying again.  I'm not interested in the airlines, I like my AF mission.  Also, ANG has no appeal to me.  Just figure out who you are and what you like, then pursue that.  Hard when you're young.  If I could do it all over again while keeping the knowledge I've gained, I would be a WO in the 160th.  

I am glad GC posts on this board; arguing with him is fruitless.  His opinions are the unvarnished versions of opinions I hear from GO's routinely.   it's good he is so forthright; expect that attitude from all your senior AF management, but normally obfuscated by platitudes.  Forewarned is forearmed.  I have no illusions about the cowards running our AF.  I chose to stay because no where else affords me the opportunity to kill AQ/IS; and although our organization doesn't value that, I do.

[General Chang]

9 hours ago, 2niner said:

Reading through this thread, and posts like the one above, is quite disconcerting. I am a civ pilot select headed for OTS sometime in the future and this thread certainly has opened my eyes to some of the problems the AF is facing right now. Just the thought of going to Reapers after UPT makes me nauseous. Some questions if you'll indulge me: Knowing what you know now, being in for 5, 10, 20 years, if you could go back and tell your younger self "Don't join!" would your younger self have listened? Would you regret it 10 years down the road having not joined?

I suppose it says something about my overall commitment to join that an online forum would cause me to re-think my future career as a military pilot. You all make valid points, but there have to be some redeeming qualities to being an AF pilot.

I apologize if this is too much of a digression for this thread's topic. I was just reading through so I thought I'd post it here.

 

Absolutely join...don't let these sour grapes force you into any kind of hasty decision.  You will regret that forever.

Once in, work your tail off and be the best in your unit.  Your leadership will fall over themselves to give you the choice assignments you want, all the way to Colonel.  If you don't "have excellence," yes, you could find yourself like some on this forum, fulfilling needs of the Air Force that don't align with your plans.  However, uphold the core values, and you won't need to worry about that. 

Be the best and you will rise to the top.

Edited May 20, 2016 by General Chang
Emphasize excellence

[SurelySerious]

Absolutely join...don't let these sour grapes force you into any kind of hasty decision.  You will regret that forever.

[Homestar]

2 hours ago, tac airlifter said:

I don't understand that statement.

 

I misspoke. Should read IDE candidate. Edited. 

[Motofalcon]

2 hours ago, General Chang said:

Your leadership will fall over themselves to give you the choice assignments you want, all the way to Colonel.

 

 If you don't "have excellence," yes, you could find yourself like some on this forum, fulfilling needs of the Air Force that don't align with your plans.

1) As long as it doesn't make them disagree with their boss, because only yes men get promoted in today's AF. I don't ever expect a commander to help me unless it also helps him, and that is from experience, not just "sour grapes". 

2) Or you could be great at your job and still get a raw deal because AFPCs two most used lines are "timing is everything" and "needs of the Air Force". Which when you dissect it means "performance is nothing, you will take what we give you, and your whole life is a game of chance every 3 years".

I still can't believe that YOU don't believe US. Do you notice how every single person on this thread is saying the same things?  QOL(not money), cut the BS/non primary duty stuff, etc?  And do you notice how damn near every thread on this board devolves into these same lamentations?  Go look at them - almost any one of them can be re-titled "What is wrong with the Air Force in regards to..." And they all have the same problems!  Do you think we just sit around and have secret meetings to make sure we all complain about the same stuff?  No!  It's because it is reality and we are all dealing with it!  But you refuse to believe it.  CSAF said morale is pretty darn good, so it must be true.  These guys in the squadrons are the minority - just a few "sour grapes". 

What is so damn frustrating is I constantly hear leaders say, "if you complain/highlight a problem, give me a solution". Well, everybody is providing you the same solutions. Maybe not the "how" to implement the solutions, but that's why you have whatever rank you do - your job is to figure out how to implement the fix. 

And guess what - stop loss isn't a fix. It's emergency triage that has it's time and place.  This isn't it, and it will backfire terribly. 

And if you are a troll, well done. You got me fired up - and maybe you don't actually matter/have power, but that doesn't make what I'm saying invalid.