BFM this Posted July 19, 2016 Posted July 19, 2016 I'm not talking about initial commitments. I'm talking about bonus commitments... For every year that you sign up for the bonus, you are committed. Seems simple enough. 2
matmacwc Posted July 19, 2016 Posted July 19, 2016 58 minutes ago, Nobody said: I was under the impression when I went from e to o, our e time could not be held against us and we were allowed to serve a full 20 o years, regardless of our tafmsd. I'd be pretty salty of they didn't offer us (prior e) continuation bonuses with our year group peers simply because of our enlisted time. Get to the end of your pilot training commitment, you can sign a bonus or get out. There used to be stipulations that would totally screw prior E's or prior O's, not sure if that still exists. Hopefully those do not exist anymore, but they might.
ILoveScotch Posted July 19, 2016 Posted July 19, 2016 1 hour ago, BFM this said: For every year that you sign up for the bonus, you are committed. Seems simple enough. I dunno, then ask Pawnman, I guess. It was his argument.
pawnman Posted July 19, 2016 Posted July 19, 2016 7 hours ago, ILoveScotch said: I dunno, then ask Pawnman, I guess. It was his argument. I know several people that are still flying, but were told that they were not eligible because they had too much active federal service time when their UPT commitment came up, including enlisted time. Somehow, they manage to do the job alongside their brethren who got the bonus because they started UPT right after graduating college. Someone else already brought up the point that enlisted troops have shifting re-enlistment bonuses every year, but somehow folks in the same AFSC do the same job with the same training without too much issue. I'm not sure why anyone thinks people would suddenly stop doing their jobs if the bonus went to $60K instead of $25K. I'm also not sure why you'd think these guys don't have the same training or experience. Sure, the late-to-rate officers went to UPT later than many...but they are also rarely tapped for FAIP, ALO, or UPT instructors. By the time the UPT commitment is up, most of them have as much, if not more, experience in the aircraft as the guys who commissioned and went straight to UPT. Maybe other communities don't take care of these guys, but they were usually priorities to upgrade if they weren't dumbasses so they could meet the promotion boards as instructors. tl;dr - there are plenty of circumstances that make people ineligible for the current pilot bonus. I don't see how changing the numbers will cause vast amounts of people who signed on for the $25K bonus to suddenly find a way to quit.
backrow Posted July 26, 2016 Posted July 26, 2016 Straight to 60K will put the bonuses ahead of what military neurosurgeons make (if you include ACIP). I have a feeling that going straight to 60k isn't going to happen. Although I have to say most military fields are underpaid and deserve more.
osulax05 Posted July 27, 2016 Posted July 27, 2016 I think with an increase in allowable bonus the AF should (will?) try to tailor the bonus offered to folks based on core AFSC and manning for that year group. 11F and RPA folks will go straight to $60K. I've heard some discussion on this as well as an even more "personal" bonus where WOs or folks with other specialized skills may be offered more than a standard line flyer. 1
nsplayr Posted July 27, 2016 Posted July 27, 2016 (edited) On July 26, 2016 at 0:39 AM, backrow said: Straight to 60K will put the bonuses ahead of what military neurosurgeons make (if you include ACIP). I have a feeling that going straight to 60k isn't going to happen. Although I have to say most military fields are underpaid and deserve more. Agreed. If the bonus had adjusted for inflation, $25K in 1999 dollars would be ~$35K in 2015 dollars, so $60K would be a pretty dramatic increase. 14 hours ago, osulax05 said: I think with an increase in allowable bonus the AF should (will?) try to tailor the bonus offered to folks based on core AFSC and manning for that year group. 11F and RPA folks will go straight to $60K. I've heard some discussion on this as well as an even more "personal" bonus where WOs or folks with other specialized skills may be offered more than a standard line flyer. That being said, agree with the above...for critically manned fields, we shouldn't be afraid to go to full mil-power and throw all the money authorized at the problem. That likely still won't move the needle as much as frankly much cheaper QOL factors that the AF could change, but it probably wouldn't hurt. Edited July 27, 2016 by nsplayr
Guest Posted July 27, 2016 Posted July 27, 2016 I think with an increase in allowable bonus the AF should (will?) try to tailor the bonus offered to folks based on core AFSC and manning for that year group. 11F and RPA folks will go straight to $60K. I've heard some discussion on this as well as an even more "personal" bonus where WOs or folks with other specialized skills may be offered more than a standard line flyer. What happens if an 11H/M/S gets an RPA assignment after signing a lessor bonus? Maybe 11Fs deserve more, since they can't be instantly replaced, but big blue has shown itself capable of converting anyone to an 11U. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Magellan Posted July 27, 2016 Posted July 27, 2016 33 minutes ago, ihtfp06 said: What happens if an 11H/M/S gets an RPA assignment after signing a lessor bonus? Chang records a cost savings on his spreadsheet with a smile on his face. 5
sqwatch Posted July 27, 2016 Posted July 27, 2016 What happens if an 11H/M/S gets an RPA assignment after signing a lessor bonus? Maybe 11Fs deserve more, since they can't be instantly replaced, but big blue has shown itself capable of converting anyone to an 11U. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk It's the devil's money, and they named their price at 25k. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
pawnman Posted July 27, 2016 Posted July 27, 2016 2 hours ago, nsplayr said: Agreed. If the bonus had adjusted for inflation, $25K in 1999 dollars would be ~$35K in 2015 dollars, so $60K would be a pretty dramatic increase. That being said, agree with the above...for critically manned fields, we shouldn't be afraid to to to full mil-power and throw all the money authorized at the problem. That likely still won't move the needle as much as frankly much cheaper QOL factors that the AF could change, but it probably wouldn't hurt. Holding my breath for that 12B bonus, since we're now critically manned. Any day now... 2
billy pilgrim Posted July 27, 2016 Posted July 27, 2016 Yeah, the standard IDLE / MAX reaction. My AFSC is critically manned but the increased production is only creating more problems. Now we should have a lot of popcorn (mentoring in progress) but only three guys to lead as blue one. Of those, one is sitting SOF, the other is TOP3 and God forbid someone has to take leave because the CC is at standup and is unavailable to fly. 1
xaarman Posted August 2, 2016 Posted August 2, 2016 Bonus take rates updated today, CAO 1 Aug for Pilots: FY16: 42.9% (FY15: 217, FY16: 105, total 322 out of 750 eligible) FY17: 24.8% (FY16: 203, total 203 of 820 eligible) 60 days left. 2
Bode Posted August 2, 2016 Posted August 2, 2016 Agreed. If the bonus had adjusted for inflation, $25K in 1999 dollars would be ~$35K in 2015 dollars, so $60K would be a pretty dramatic increase Yes however the bonus was $25k in 1990 as well so that would be your base analysis point. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Gazmo Posted August 2, 2016 Posted August 2, 2016 Bonus take rates updated today, CAO 1 Aug for Pilots: FY16: 42.9% (FY15: 217, FY16: 105, total 322 out of 750 eligible) FY17: 24.8% (FY16: 203, total 203 of 820 eligible) 60 days left. Wow... just wow. Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk
guineapigfury Posted August 2, 2016 Posted August 2, 2016 48 minutes ago, Lstcause257 said: Yes however the bonus was $25k in 1990 as well so that would be your base analysis point. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk $25k in 1990 adjusted for inflation is about $46k today according to https://www.usinflationcalculator.com/.
Herk Driver Posted August 2, 2016 Posted August 2, 2016 Yes however the bonus was $25k in 1990 as well so that would be your base analysis point. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk No. No, it wasn't. https://www.dtic.mil/get-tr-doc/pdf?Location=U2&doc=GetTRDoc.pdf&AD=ADA354254
ARAMP1 Posted August 2, 2016 Posted August 2, 2016 I can't see the bonus for RPAs increasing at all, in fact, it'll probably go away altogether. With the enlisted force taking over, the AF is going to save money.
xaarman Posted August 2, 2016 Posted August 2, 2016 1 hour ago, Herk Driver said: No. No, it wasn't. https://www.dtic.mil/get-tr-doc/pdf?Location=U2&doc=GetTRDoc.pdf&AD=ADA354254 I love papers like this, great read and thanks for the link. Pretty much says the more things change, the more things stay the same. Also, that the "boots on the ramp" was an effective policy to make sure people signed the bonuses.
Fuzz Posted August 2, 2016 Posted August 2, 2016 For us young guys anyone mind explaining the "boots on the ramp" policy, I've seen it mentioned over the years but never quite grasped what it entailed.
Sprkt69 Posted August 2, 2016 Posted August 2, 2016 2 hours ago, ARAMP1 said: I can't see the bonus for RPAs increasing at all, in fact, it'll probably go away altogether. With the enlisted force taking over, the AF is going to save money. I don't believe that would be true. The money saved would probably be overshadowed by higher turnover.
Guest Posted August 2, 2016 Posted August 2, 2016 For us young guys anyone mind explaining the "boots on the ramp" policy, I've seen it mentioned over the years but never quite grasped what it entailed. If you didn't sign the bonus, you were grounded. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Guest Posted August 2, 2016 Posted August 2, 2016 I don't believe that would be true. The money saved would probably be overshadowed by higher turnover. Agreed. Enlisted RPA drivers are probably more likely to punch, given that, comparatively, they have more to gain by going private sector. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Bode Posted August 2, 2016 Posted August 2, 2016 No. No, it wasn't. https://www.dtic.mil/get-tr-doc/pdf?Location=U2&doc=GetTRDoc.pdf&AD=ADA354254 On second look it's the aviation service pay which hasn't changed since 1990 (edited) Good call. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
ThreeHoler Posted August 2, 2016 Posted August 2, 2016 On second look it's the aviation service pay which hasn't changed since 1900. Good call. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Amazing that there was aviation service pay nine years before the first airplane. 1
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