one1 Posted February 9, 2014 Posted February 9, 2014 (edited) At our non-rated training base, Lts on casual status walk around looking for people that don't have a fold in their watch cap. They are also sent to walk around to find enlisted airmen that don't salute them on the troop walk. To top it off, they have Lts on casual walk around the parking lot looking for other Lts that are using their phones. We have a stupid rule that we are not allowed to use our cell phones during the duty day so some people go check their phones in their car during breaks. This rule includes the Captains that are cross training. Then they have a recall during the duty day and get upset for us not answering the phones we are not allowed to answer. The casual Lts are actually told to walk around just looking for this shit. Edited February 9, 2014 by one1
Fuzz Posted February 9, 2014 Posted February 9, 2014 (edited) Wondering how/why she is so intimately familiar with the specifics of FDU, sounds like some who washed out of UPT. But then again it wouldnt surprise me knowing the shoe mentality. Edited February 9, 2014 by Fuzz
one1 Posted February 9, 2014 Posted February 9, 2014 (edited) Jesus tapdancing Christ... shoes trying to out-shoe each other. That's some real mision focus right there. [/sarcasm] When they told me to walk around the troop walk looking infractions, I thought it was code to go back to lodging and take a nap. Where the hell is this? What about lunch? Or if you have a sick kid or pregnant wife? Do they not realize that people use their phones for things other than twitter and facebook? I know. Common sense right? Sounds a lot like a certain base in San Angelo... Very good observation. Edited February 9, 2014 by one1
panchbarnes Posted February 9, 2014 Posted February 9, 2014 Very good observation. Be thankful you weren't around during the dark period.
one1 Posted February 9, 2014 Posted February 9, 2014 The dark period? It was worse? I am past my two year mark in AETC. I am on the verge of feeling obligated to getting a tear drop tattoo for every year I have been an AETC prisoner. FGOs have to fill out 29Bs to go to Abilene. It is obviously not as bad for the Lts as the Airmen but the kool-aid is pretty strong here.
panchbarnes Posted February 9, 2014 Posted February 9, 2014 (edited) The dark period? It was worse? It was so bad the Group CC had to make an all call and apologize to the students for all the cadre shenanigan. Does your SQ/CC has at least 3-5 butter bars as his/her exec? That cleans up after the kids b-day party? Edited February 9, 2014 by PanchBarnes
BitteEinBit Posted February 9, 2014 Posted February 9, 2014 Please don't tell me this is a whole new area ripe for embarrassing the Air Force in the news in the near future. WTF is wrong with people?! Seriously...where are we getting these managers?!!? Is this the shit they are teaching at in-res PME?! I have to assume these managers have served in the same Air Force I have over the past 15 years...where the f*ck are they learning this shit?!
herkbum Posted February 9, 2014 Posted February 9, 2014 These stories have been corroborated by all of our folks we've sent out there lately. The stories I've heard have blown my mind. I wish we didn't have to send anyone else out there, but what can you do.
one1 Posted February 9, 2014 Posted February 9, 2014 The rule that makes the least sense is we technically have to fill out a 29B every time we leave San Angelo. They made this rule after there was a sexual assault in Christoval. As if the Airmen filled out a 29B they would have thought twice about sexual assaulting someone. Christoval is literally a 20 minute drive and people live in Christoval or farther and commute to Goodfellow each day. This means that according to the rules, people who live outside of San Angelo have to fill out 29Bs just to go home. No one does but if for some reason you get a ticket in Christoval or get in trouble outside of San Angelo without a 29B, they will not hesitate to throw the book at you. There is so much of this crap but I will just leave it at that. You wouldn't believe how hard they throw the book at Lts here. Just out of the small group of people that I know here, I have a friend that got a LOC, a friend that got a LOR, and a guy I know that got an Article. The three of them got these for things so minor it would blow your mind.
panchbarnes Posted February 9, 2014 Posted February 9, 2014 On one of the Blues Mondays there was a 2Lt who would correct people (albeit politely) if they were wearing a wife-beater (STS?) instead of a V-neck. I asked him where in the reg does it say that and he told me that's what he learned in ROTC.
Herk Driver Posted February 9, 2014 Posted February 9, 2014 (edited) On one of the Blues Mondays there was a 2Lt who would correct people (albeit politely) if they were wearing a wife-beater (STS?) instead of a V-neck. I asked him where in the reg does it say that and he told me that's what he learned in ROTC. 4.12. Men’s Blue Service Uniform (Class B). 4.12.1. Long-Sleeve/Short-Sleeve Blue Shirt. Words...A V-neck or athletic style, white undershirt will be worn under the shirt. I guess his definition of athletic style differs from mine. There is a conflict later in Chapter 6, so a casual "noted" would probably do the trick. Edited February 9, 2014 by Herk Driver
panchbarnes Posted February 9, 2014 Posted February 9, 2014 The rule that makes the least sense is we technically have to fill out a 29B every time we leave San Angelo. They made this rule after there was a sexual assault in Christoval. As if the Airmen filled out a 29B they would have thought twice about sexual assaulting someone. Christoval is literally a 20 minute drive and people live in Christoval or farther and commute to Goodfellow each day. This means that according to the rules, people who live outside of San Angelo have to fill out 29Bs just to go home. No one does but if for some reason you get a ticket in Christoval or get in trouble outside of San Angelo without a 29B, they will not hesitate to throw the book at you. There is so much of this crap but I will just leave it at that. You wouldn't believe how hard they throw the book at Lts here. Just out of the small group of people that I know here, I have a friend that got a LOC, a friend that got a LOR, and a guy I know that got an Article. The three of them got these for things so minor it would blow your mind. Don't forget the 29B with a turn-by-turn instruction attached or it will get rejected. The LOR reminds me of a story of a Lt who safely landed a Cessna in a field (bad fuel gauge). Informed the class leader and class instructor of the incident and was told not to worry about it. SQ leadership later found out about the incident in the town newspaper and got pissed. The Lt was then given paperwork and washed back. 1
panchbarnes Posted February 9, 2014 Posted February 9, 2014 (edited) Given paperwork for what?! There is nothing in that story that sounds like it deserves more than a "good job handling the situation" I think it was because she failed to notify the SQ/CC and DO of the incident even though her instructor told her not to worry about it. The SQ/CC once threatened to have students show up to class in mess dress for a surprise uniform inspection because some people didn't have the ABU gortex jacket. Edited February 9, 2014 by PanchBarnes
Spinner Posted February 9, 2014 Posted February 9, 2014 How long has this stupid shit perpetuated? This is not leadership or management, it's a bunch of bitches too afraid of their own shadow. They're so afraid that it's going to be their career that ends too quickly because a subordinate made a mistake. This is what young, impressionable Lts see, and they think it's how the "real AF" is supposed to act. This crap has got to stop...
panchbarnes Posted February 9, 2014 Posted February 9, 2014 How long has this stupid shit perpetuated? This is not leadership or management, it's a bunch of bitches too afraid of their own shadow. They're so afraid that it's going to be their career that ends too quickly because a subordinate made a mistake. This is what young, impressionable Lts see, and they think it's how the "real AF" is supposed to act. This crap has got to stop... Speaking of young, impressionable Lts... There were a couple of times the instructors told the students essentially that "if a pilot asks too many stupid questions during a brief just tell them to shut up and sit down."
hispeed7721 Posted February 9, 2014 Posted February 9, 2014 This is a side of the AF I have never seen before...don't get me wrong I've seen plenty of stupid stuff going on, but this isn't even in the same league as stupid queep. This is the most unbelievable BS I've ever heard of. Hopefully there can be some actual leadership put there to un-fvck it
DEVIL Posted February 9, 2014 Posted February 9, 2014 reading this thread was physically exhausting. I was moments away from laughter and tears the entire time. YGBFSM will cover it.
Hodor Posted February 9, 2014 Posted February 9, 2014 Reading this makes me even happier that I got saved from an intel slot by my pilot slot a few years ago. These stories are beyond absurd. What purpose does this shit serve other than showing subordinates how big a stick you have and wasting their brain bites on trying to avoid getting schwacked.
one1 Posted February 9, 2014 Posted February 9, 2014 I never looked at this as an intel thing. It is an AETC thing. This type of stuff is standard for airmen going through enlisted training for four months but when they start treating the Lts and Capts the same way as the trainees, something is wrong. We are often here for over a year and the constant bullshit is exhausting. I am glad someone can corroborate how shitty it is. Most of the guys I went through rating training don't believe how things are on this side of training. I feel like since the training isn't as difficult as rated training they add on extra bullshit for no reason. I truly believe that intel is the best non-rated job you can get but I can't imagine how painful it would be to get non-voled as an instructor here.
HeloDude Posted February 9, 2014 Posted February 9, 2014 It is an AETC thing. No. Unless AETC has changed that much in the last year. There are enough people on here at AETC bases (UPT and school houses) that can comment whether or not their bases/organizations have as much buffoonery as what you're describing.
panchbarnes Posted February 9, 2014 Posted February 9, 2014 (edited) It's not just intel or AETC, there are plenty of bad "leaders" out here in the operational AF regardless of AFSC. It's usually a shit hot individual, who has cracked the promotion code, checked the boxes, in-res PME, was some GO's exec at the Pentagon, won an AF-level award (or two) and realized they are now invincible. They say the right things to their boss (who probably doesn't care about the details to cover their own ass) to avoid scrutiny and turns around with some BS justification to make their subordinates life miserable. If someone dares to speak up or offer a different viewpoint then he/she is quickly punished as a warning to others. The shit hot individual is soon to join the exclusive club of "O-6+" so whatever path they took to get there must be okay. I think I'm now going to change my name to CynicalBarnes A couple of more stories to remain on topic... They used to do random reflective belt check in the morning in front of the classroom. I was told there was an Lt who had to wear a reflective vest (much better visibility) because he rode a bicycle to class. The Lt got a nice chewing by a "patch" cadre at the checkpoint for not adhering to the base reflective belt policy. The enlisted troops had to march in formation to class. On one afternoon, they were reciting the Airman's Creed while marching by the school house (and the students). All the sudden both the E and O cadre started going crazy and proceeded to scream & yell at all the officers for not standing in the position of attention while the troops were marching and reciting the Airman's Creed. Everyone was like WTFO, finally one of the reserve O-5 class leaders decided he's tired of being treated like a caged animal and proceeded to dress down the cadre in front of everyone. Quite entertaining. That place is a prime example of what's wrong with the AF. I'm sure many others have better stories than the ones I've shared. Added: Washing people back was used mostly as a disciplinary tool rather than a training tool. But that may have changed now. Edited February 9, 2014 by PanchBarnes
BB Stacker Posted February 9, 2014 Posted February 9, 2014 (edited) No. Unless AETC has changed that much in the last year. There are enough people on here at AETC bases (UPT and school houses) that can comment whether or not their bases/organizations have as much buffoonery as what you're describing. Everything I've heard out of that base puts it in a class of its own. I've known several people that have gone through various mx school houses at Sheppard at the past year (both E and O) and no one has relayed any stories that come anywhere close to the intel lunacy. Plenty of standard Airmen Eternally Treated like Children crap, but there's a colossal difference between "normal AETC" stupidity like making a Lt fill out a 29B to go to Dallas and making a Lt Col fill out a 29B to drive 5 miles outside of town. The closest thing I can think of that I've heard of would be when a certain TRW/CC a few years back got all pissy pants that some Ammo dudes were making fun of his son at a softball game and banned the Ammo team from playing in the base league, but that was just one shitty senior leader. All the shit I've heard from that hellhole indicates that it's a pervasive culture of idiocy that infects all the cadre there. Edited February 9, 2014 by BB Stacker 1
one1 Posted February 9, 2014 Posted February 9, 2014 (edited) No. Unless AETC has changed that much in the last year. There are enough people on here at AETC bases (UPT and school houses) that can comment whether or not their bases/organizations have as much buffoonery as what you're describing. It is common for AETC enlisted training. Some training squadrons have control over 700 enlisted students and 100 officer students. The officer students get lumped in with the enlisted students. The prior service NCOs also get lumped into the mix and it sucks even worse for them because they are in the same classes as the Airmen. Some of these rules actually make sense for the new Airmen because they are just leaving BMT and the logic is, it is better for the Airmen to give them back their independence slowly. When I was at Pensacola doing CSO training it was a much better experience but AETC still sucked. It was different because everyone was an officer instead of officers being a minority. I heard similar stories from friends going through training at Keesler and Lackland. Edited February 9, 2014 by one1
panchbarnes Posted February 9, 2014 Posted February 9, 2014 Man, this thread is bringing back memories! There was an Lt smoking outside near the parking area after a Wing King call. An enlisted instructor told him he can't smoke there so he said okay and flicked the cigarette away. The enlisted instructor saw that as a sign of disrespect and proceeded to notify the people in charge. I think the Lt ended up getting paperwork and washed back to a different class for his "lack of respect."
KState_Poke22 Posted February 9, 2014 Posted February 9, 2014 That ridiculousness happens everywhere apparently. At Bagram, (where you'd think the priority of the flyers would be, you know, getting the mission done and helping out the bros on the ground) you can now get paperwork for not only having your hands in your pockets but also officers will get paperwork if they see someone anywhere with their hands in their pockets and don't correct them. I'm sure most of you know how cold it gets during the winter.
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