Customs and courtesies

[Gravedigger]

I don't think this is an AETC-wide issue. Some of the stuff posted here is unbelievable. I think the 29B's might be an AETC-wide thing, but certainly the enforcement is different. We had to fill them out in Space IQT when we were going farther than 250 miles, and only if you were under 26. We went to LA or San Francisco all the time and never had a problem.

My biggest complaint in IQT was having to wear Air Force PTUs once a week for squadron PT. Everyone was treated like an adult, absolutely nothing extra-curricular was mandatory. It was honeslty about as laid back and care-free as my casual time at Columbus.

Why the fuck are people wearing reflective belts CONUS?

ETA: We did have to take off our morale patches while I was in IQT (we wore bags then), because the AETC reg forbade them. The AFSPC reg at the time authorized them, but AETC leaders came for a visit and squashed that.

Edited February 9, 2014 by Gravedigger

[BitteEinBit]

When senior managers have time to make rules like that....it is how you know the war is over. If we aren't out there trying to kill people and break things, what else are we going to focus on? But hey, everyone has to feel like an important manager. We really should start tracking how many uniform violations have been corrected and make an OPR/EPR bullet out of it....would make a great push line in today's Air Force.

[HeloDude]

It is common for AETC enlisted training.

Still 'no'. I have rarely ever seen enlisted get harassed just to get harassed while spending quite a bit of time (as well as being an IP) over the years at Kirtland and my fixed-wing buds there said the same. Now was it haze for the A1C's (first term enlisted/non-crossflow), yes...because it's their tech school, just the way it is. Though I'm sure our first term airmen had it a lot better than tech school for mx or security forces.

So again, either something has drastically changed at 'all' the AETC bases/training units, or this is focused on certain career fields and bases.

[Kenny Powers]

I haven't noticed really any bullshit being on the ENJJPT side of the house here at Sheppard (other than the std queepy stuff). Maybe we are just sheltered from everything since we are physically pretty well separated from the rest of the base...

[one1]

Still 'no'. I have rarely ever seen enlisted get harassed just to get harassed while spending quite a bit of time (as well as being an IP) over the years at Kirtland and my fixed-wing buds there said the same. Now was it haze for the A1C's (first term enlisted/non-crossflow), yes...because it's their tech school, just the way it is. Though I'm sure our first term airmen had it a lot better than tech school for mx or security forces.

So again, either something has drastically changed at 'all' the AETC bases/training units, or this is focused on certain career fields and bases.

Absolutely. I completely agree with the difference between permanent party enlisted and the tech schoolers. The problem is they don't consider officers in training as permanent party and they lump us all in with the enlisted tech schoolers just because it is easier. It is much better to be an SrA at Goodfellow if you are permanent party than a 2d Lt in training. We can't make medical appointments, we are not allowed to make dental appointments, most of our out-processing and in-processing is lumped in with the enlisted tech schoolers so if you need any type of customer service at MPF/TMO/Legal you can't just walk in.

It is hard to compare things like UPT to intel training because UPT training squadrons don't also train new airmen. I think if we had a separate squadron just training intel officers things would be very different.

After the holiday, they pissed test every student on base. We stood in lines for 4 hours to piss in a cup. People almost pissed themselves in line. I am not saying that we are better than the enlisted students but just by the fact that we PCS for training, it would be nice to at very least be treated separately.

The weird part is, our CC and DO seem like legit people that come from solid backgrounds. I think they got here with these rules in place and just went with the status quo.

[Gravedigger]

It is hard to compare things like UPT to intel training because UPT training squadrons don't also train new airmen. I think if we had a separate squadron just training intel officers things would be very different.

The weird part is, our CC and DO seem like legit people that come from solid backgrounds. I think they got here with these rules in place and just went with the status quo.

Still no. Space Ops has both 13S and 1C6 training in the same squadron, and for some satellite systems enlisted and officer can be in the same class. We had a first-term Airman in my class; he was the only E in a group with 4 Captains and 8 Lts. He had to live in the dorms and follow first-term Airman rules there, but in class he was just another student. For the officers, we were treated as any other permanent party on base. If we had to miss class for a medical appointment we set up, so be it.

Somebody needs to unfuck Goodfellow quick-like. It's just going to breed more dumbasses that think this shit is acceptable when they move up in rank.

[GKinnear]

Speaking of young, impressionable Lts...

There were a couple of times the instructors told the students essentially that "if a pilot asks too many stupid questions during a brief just tell them to shut up and sit down."

Well now I know why I've gotten in trouble for "raising my voice" at the intel briefer. If it's my ass sitting in the iron that's getting shot at, then I want my questions answered. And use common sense in briefing threats; no offense to FRED, but a C-5 Eng ain't Viz ID'ing a MANPAD up in the stratosphere. Most of the time Intel is just Ron Burgundy minus the good parts.

[Butters]

And use common sense in briefing threats; no offense to FRED, but a C-5 Eng ain't Viz ID'ing a MANPAD up in the stratosphere.

Maybe if they were looking for a MANPADS they would have a better chance.

[GKinnear]

Maybe if they were looking for a MANPADS they would have a better chance.

Well, when in Rome...

[Butters]

Well, when in Rome...

Yes, go on...

[Seriously]

When I think back to all the ROTC nazis that went intel, I can't say I'm surprised to hear about all this.

[SuperWSO]

As a recent victim graduate of the program, I can say that the stories are true, but its changed between the time Paunch and One1 were there. Hopefully it will reassure some of you to hear that the squadron leadership there when Paunch was there were both removed from command and may be facing prison time. No shit. Their deviations were so severe that it is amazing it didn't end sooner.

Current buffoonery can't be explained. The 29B process is the most painful for officers but the other silly rules add to the pain. I will give the lower level leadership a thumbs up for being open to change when they were able. The stupidity seemed to come from the squadron and above leadership.

[panchbarnes]

As a recent victim graduate of the program, I can say that the stories are true, but its changed between the time Paunch and One1 were there. Hopefully it will reassure some of you to hear that the squadron leadership there when Paunch was there were both removed from command and may be facing prison time retire with full pension. No shit. Their deviations were so severe that it is amazing it didn't end sooner.

FIFY...

So there was this one class preparing for their job drop. They picked and advertised the drop date without consulting/inviting the SQ CC. The Commander found out and was livid. Their drop was cancelled & postponed for a very long time until the person was properly invited.

There was a female E-3 nine months into her pregnancy and one block away from graduation. Her enlisted leadership pressured her into going to the week long capstone exercise which was very high-stressed and 18-hr days were not uncommon. The poor girl could barely waddle to class, and sure enough she went into labor 2 days into the exercise (thankfully it didn't happen during duty hours). The girl had a great attitude about the whole thing but I'd be pissed if that happened to my wife.

Edited February 11, 2014 by PanchBarnes

[Whiskey_Neat]

That ridiculousness happens everywhere apparently.

At Bagram, (where you'd think the priority of the flyers would be, you know, getting the mission done and helping out the bros on the ground) you can now get paperwork for not only having your hands in your pockets but also officers will get paperwork if they see someone anywhere with their hands in their pockets and don't correct them. I'm sure most of you know how cold it gets during the winter.

Seriously? I just left there and never heard this. I also had my hands in my pockets like 90% of the time I spent outside on the line, which was 4-6 hours a day. No-one, including pilots or mx leadership ever said a thing.

[Napoleon_Tanerite]

As a recent victim graduate of the program, I can say that the stories are true, but its changed between the time Paunch and One1 were there. Hopefully it will reassure some of you to hear that the squadron leadership there when Paunch was there were both removed from command and may be facing prison time. No shit. Their deviations were so severe that it is amazing it didn't end sooner.

Current buffoonery can't be explained. The 29B process is the most painful for officers but the other silly rules add to the pain. I will give the lower level leadership a thumbs up for being open to change when they were able. The stupidity seemed to come from the squadron and above leadership.

Interesting..... A topic of discussion at a recent staff meeting here was whether or not "hazing" occurs at UPT. Those kind of questions don't spontaneously pop up, so we made the assumption that maybe it was coming from certain shenanigans of one of the other squadrons on base. If there is leadership that may legitimately be facing charges for "hazing" maybe it's bigger than just my base level.

[panchbarnes]

It was way beyond hazing... Ask your local 14N CGO about it.

[HeyWatchThis]

I don't think this is an AETC-wide issue. Some of the stuff posted here is unbelievable. I think the 29B's might be an AETC-wide thing, but certainly the enforcement is different. We had to fill them out in Space IQT when we were going farther than 250 miles, and only if you were under 26. We went to LA or San Francisco all the time and never had a problem.

My biggest complaint in IQT was having to wear Air Force PTUs once a week for squadron PT. Everyone was treated like an adult, absolutely nothing extra-curricular was mandatory. It was honeslty about as laid back and care-free as my casual time at Columbus.

Why the ###### are people wearing reflective belts CONUS?

ETA: We did have to take off our morale patches while I was in IQT (we wore bags then), because the AETC reg forbade them. The AFSPC reg at the time authorized them, but AETC leaders came for a visit and squashed that.

Good ol Laughlin has us filling out 29B's (no matter rank or age) for travel outside 30 miles.......

[Spoo]

Alright, I give up. WTF is a 29B?

[hispeed7721]

Alright, I give up. WTF is a 29B?

It is a stupid AETC form...basically a locator for where/when you're going, how you're getting there, driving directions, etc

[HeloDude]

Alright, I give up. WTF is a 29B?

We will all politely now back up, and get off of your lawn.

[Azimuth]

Good ol Laughlin has us filling out 29B's (no matter rank or age) for travel outside 30 miles.......

Students are required to fill out a 29B regardless of rank/age. Permanent party instructors in AETC, that are under 26, have too as well.

It's an accountability thing more than anything. Some AETC based don't have a local area defined.9

[one1]

The one thing they do here that is a surprisingly positive rule, we are allowed to go anywhere as long as we fill out a turn by turn 29B for the weekend. I can go to Miami for a four day weekend as long as I am back by 2200 the night before training. That is a rare plus for AETC. All the other bases I have been to have a 300 mile radius or less.

[HeloDude]

The one thing they do here that is a surprisingly positive rule, we are allowed to go anywhere as long as we fill out a turn by turn 29B for the weekend. I can go to Miami for a four day weekend as long as I am back by 2200 the night before training. That is a rare plus for AETC. All the other bases I have been to have a 300 mile radius or less.

Kirtland 58 SOW units had the same thing. This is nothing cosmic as it's in the leave AFI (ie no distance restriction on a pass). I'm not trying to bust your balls on purpose each time, but you throw out a lot of information in which your assumptions turn out to not be accurate. Notice how I never comment on what Goodfellow does because I have never been there. Hopefully there is some learning going on here.

[Fuzz]

The one thing they do here that is a surprisingly positive rule, we are allowed to go anywhere as long as we fill out a turn by turn 29B for the weekend. I can go to Miami for a four day weekend as long as I am back by 2200 the night before training. That is a rare plus for AETC. All the other bases I have been to have a 300 mile radius or less.

Vance had that policy as well when I was there, knew guys that would fly to NYC for a weekend.

[one1]

Kirtland 58 SOW units had the same thing. This is nothing cosmic as it's in the leave AFI (ie no distance restriction on a pass). I'm not trying to bust your balls on purpose each time, but you throw out a lot of information in which your assumptions turn out to not be accurate. Notice how I never comment on what Goodfellow does because I have never been there. Hopefully there is some learning going on here.

I just left from Pensacola and we had to take leave (sometimes) and get permission to leave a 300 mile radius. My assumptions are all based on my experiences as I haven't made some type of special tour to visit all AETC bases. I have only been to a few AETC bases. I didn't say that all AETC bases have this rule, only that it is surprising that Goodfellow isn't not more strict considering they are strict with everything else. I have been to some operational bases that wouldn't let you leave a local area without taking leave. In Hawaii, we were not allowed to leave the island without taking leave with exception of going to the Big Island or Maui on four day weekends. I am talking about the differences between Pensacola, Goodfellow, and my technical training when I was enlisted.

Still 'no'. I have rarely ever seen enlisted get harassed just to get harassed while spending quite a bit of time (as well as being an IP) over the years at Kirtland and my fixed-wing buds there said the same. Now was it haze for the A1C's (first term enlisted/non-crossflow), yes...because it's their tech school, just the way it is. Though I'm sure our first term airmen had it a lot better than tech school for mx or security forces.

So again, either something has drastically changed at 'all' the AETC bases/training units, or this is focused on certain career fields and bases.

You are more than welcome to disagree but it is interesting how you seem to be able to tell me how I am wrong about my own personal experiences as an enlisted airman going through training. Please, tell me more about how airmen get treated at all AETC training units. It is very different from base to base and unit to unit.

ETA: To qualify my statement, I only have a very narrow and negative view of AETC. I hated AETC as a student, instructor, and officer student. Almost all of my experience is based off 16 months in Pensacola and 24 months at Goodfellow. AETC might be awesome outside of my small world.

Edited February 12, 2014 by one1