Customs and courtesies

[one1]

If you're dead and you didn't fill out the paperwork, the CC could do a line of duty determination and your family gets $0.

That would be a dick move, especially since after a 29B gets filled out it normally gets filed in the "Who gives a fuck folder". The average MPF loses 69 tons of paperwork a year.

[xaarman]

I've heard that before, but 1) The SGLI will always be paid and 2) They have to prove gross negligence to even consider that. It's designed for the dude who goes out and gets in a fight and knows he'll both be injured, but he has insurance and the other guy doesn't so he'll be ok in the end.

I'm sick of hearing that threat for motorcycle riders, it's 100% false.

[Azimuth]

I've heard that before, but 1) The SGLI will always be paid and 2) They have to prove gross negligence to even consider that. It's designed for the dude who goes out and gets in a fight and knows he'll both be injured, but he has insurance and the other guy doesn't so he'll be ok in the end.

I'm sick of hearing that threat for motorcycle riders, it's 100% false.

I've seen it happen. Loadmaster goes out and buys an Yamaha R1. Doesn't do both motorcycle courses required by AMC. Gets into bad wreck where he breaks bones. Tricare refused to cover the injuries. YMMV, but the threat is real and I personally wouldn't want to roll the dice.

[hispeed7721]

I've heard that before, but 1) The SGLI will always be paid and 2) They have to prove gross negligence to even consider that. It's designed for the dude who goes out and gets in a fight and knows he'll both be injured, but he has insurance and the other guy doesn't so he'll be ok in the end.

I'm sick of hearing that threat for motorcycle riders, it's 100% false.

This statement is false. One of the airmen in my sqdn when I was at Shaw got into a motorcycle accident w/o PPE and Big Blue turned their back after a line of duty determination. And there ARE circumstances where SGLI will NOT be paid out. "Always" is a very seldom used word in today's AF

Edited February 18, 2014 by hispeed7721

[xaarman]

Not that I'm saying it's false, but I'd love to read the RoS on those. I can PM my .mil address if needed.

As for the SGLI, it's an Army link so yes, if you're AWOL or in prison, they won't pay the SGLI. However, the commonly claimed ones that the AF likes to throw out at Commanders Calls are bunk.

https://www.monterey.army.mil/legal/wills/sglideny.pdf

Edited February 18, 2014 by xaarman

[SuperWSO]

Not that I'm saying it's false, but I'd love to read the RoS on those. I can PM my .mil address if needed.

As for the SGLI, it's an Army link so yes, if you're AWOL or in prison, they won't pay the SGLI. However, the commonly claimed ones that the AF likes to throw out at Commanders Calls are bunk.

https://www.monterey.army.mil/legal/wills/sglideny.pdf

29B's were stupid, but you have to look at it this way; if you already lost the cosmic lottery and find yourself dead on the weekend, do you want your family to have to fight it out in court in order to get your SGLI? The 29Bs were stupid, but it was also fairly easy to print out 69 with all the relevant info plugged in and staple a google map with directions to the back.

Fight the power, but not if it has the potential to screw over your family.

[xaarman]

SGLI payout and Tricare coverage are two separate items. SGLI won't be denied, and I'm saying know your stuff so you can filter/advise what the CC is telling people. LoD is used for gross negligence, or say, joining knowing you had Cancer, hiding it from MEPS then trying to get Tricare to pay for it. AFI 36-2910 is the reg, and here's what it has to say about MC safety specifically:

A5.6.3. Illness, injury, disease or death incurred while not wearing safety devices such as seat belts or safety helmets is one factor to consider. Standing alone, the violation of a safety standard or regulation constitutes only simple negligence. The violation must, under the circumstances, amount to gross, willful, or wanton carelessness to constitute misconduct.

A5.6.3.1. The failure to use safety devices may have nothing to do with the proximate cause of the illness, injury, disease, or death. For example, the failure to wear a safety helmet may have nothing to do with a motorcyclist who breaks a leg.

A5.6.3.2. In other cases, failure to use safety devices can aggravate the illness, injuries, or disease but will not be the proximate cause of the illness, injuries, disease or death

A5.6.3.3. Do not focus solely upon whether or not the member was wearing seat belts or other protective devices at the time of the accident, instead carefully examine the facts and circumstances of each case.

Not filling out a 29B will not cause a justified LoD. I'll stop with the tangents...

Edited February 18, 2014 by xaarman

[Toro]

Not filling out a 29B will not cause a justified LoD. I'll stop with the tangents...

That 36-2910 excerpt clarifies the motorcycle situation, but there is also this:

A3.2. Investigating the Circumstances.

A3.2.2. Secure Reports. The IO should obtain copies of all pertinent records including:

A3.2.2.1. All relevant facts with respect to the duty, leave, pass or unauthorized absence status of the member at the time of the incident resulting in death, illness, injury or disease.

I think that the type of commander who has a hard on for 29Bs would lump the form under the bold section.

[Right Seat Driver]

The 29Bs were stupid, but it was also fairly easy to print out 69 with all the relevant info plugged in and staple a google map with directions to the back.

Fight the power, but not if it has the potential to screw over your family.

This. I had a stack in my locker at UPT pre-filed out for the weekends I drove to see the wife when she was stationed at Robins. My Flt/CC just told me to turn the form in before I left for the weekend. Never spoke to him once about it, but the 29B was on-file.