Classic Thread - CSAF congratulates CAP cadet

[AFCS_Actuator]

I was a CAP cadet too. It taught me a lot about what bad leadership is. I saw it in cadets and I saw it in the overweight senior members. CAP can be a good program if you can get with the right people (sts). Some really do care about the mission. There are a lot of washed up hitlers out there too, unfortunately. It is an outlet for their small-minded power trips.

[Guest usna10]

Okay, first post here, but I've been reading this thread for awhile and I have a few comments. I am an 18 year old CAP cadet (so flame away), and I have worked with people at the local, wing and national levels. I'll be the first (or second or whatever) to say that I definitely have seen my share of douche-nozzles--both cadets and seniors. I have also worked with some of the most outstanding people in the organization (and these people really are top-notch).

Like any organization, CAP has flaws; there is a lot of politicking at all levels. The cadet program has its weaknesses. The Spaatz examination does not even measure what it is intended to recognize. The award citation reads something like "...for demonstrated leadership ability..." or something like that, yet it is a test on a computer--no "demonstration" necessary! Most critics of the Spaatz award cite this as the biggest weakness because the awardees may not even be able to lead a horse to water (sts). It is just assumed that cadets who receive the Spaatz have learned about some leadership along the way, and have had a chance to practice it (though of course this is not always the case). Unfortunately, a lot of CAP cadets get on a power trip in the organization because thay are cadet OFFICERS or NCOs (which may or may not be the best idea in itself) in charge of other cadets, and the leadership they practice is their flawed perception of what a leader is.

Then again, there are cadet officers and NCOs who are the most humble people who may prove to be the best leaders in the future US military and in corporate America. It's not about the program, it's about the person.

About this new C/Col, though. I guess we shouldn't jump to conclusions; however:

1) Just last month she was promoted to C/Lt Col. From the looks of things, it seems that she is the type of person who sweeps through the program and passes all the tests ASAP just to get to Spaatz...and doesn't really learn anything in the process. But I can't judge her based on that.

2) But the fact that she's homeschooled and I have never seen her name on any national level activity boards or the like, leads me to believe that she is one of the kids who does indeed just run through the program to get Spaatz...and really contributes nothing nor participates actively in what CAP has to offer (and believe me, CAP has a lot to offer. I have gotten the opportunity to travel all over the place on CAP's dime, and much more...you get out of it what you put into it, I guess).

Finally, if you all think she is young, recently a Texas cadet received Spaatz. She is 13. But from what I've heard, she displays more maturity as a 13 year old than most 20 year olds do. It's about the person...age does not always determine a person's ability...

Just from my observations...but then again, I'm just a lowly CAP cadet.

[Mambo]

Hmmm, pretty good post for an 18 year old. Seems to have a grasp on the CAP program, coherent thoughts and spelling looks good.

I give it an 8 out of 10... -2 for improper use of the "sts".

[Guest Elwood3255]

Hello all you hypocritical idiots that want to tear at a program that you could likely not even complete. On short notice I cannot provide any real proof of the accomplishments that former CAP cadets have had or the sacrifices that they have made, but I will enclose a link to a former Cadet that went on to VMI, and died in Iraq as a member of Special Forces https://www.arlingtoncemetery.net/prsyverson3.htm. I was his friend and I can only imagine that he would stick by the CAP program 100 percent. I have known plenty of others that have worn the uniform of all the services, flew bombers, fighters, helicopters, drove tanks, and did just about every conceivable thing in the miltiary. Civil Air Patrol develops interest in serving in the military and certainly beats the hell out of some kid getting in with the wrong crowd to have regrets for the rest of their lives. So, since you just simply have no idea what it is to be a cadet you should just shut your trap doors just like your ma ma's thought you - if you do not have something nice to say just simply don't say it.

By the way, I completed the program and today I am a Combat Engineer in the US Army. I have no idea where I would be today, or what friends I would have had if I had not joined and stuck with the program. I say good work to the Cadet Colonel.

[ 16. May 2006, 20:04: Message edited by: Elwood Blues ]

[Guest sleepy]

Elwood,

Have you read through this entire thread? LIkely couldn't complete? Please remove the anterior from the posterior. Geez.

Maybe I should resign, do my time with the CAP, then re-enlist. Oh shit, they told me I can't quit. Damn. Guess I'm doomed to a life of being a bad citizen and a pisspoor Airman.

[Guest Xtndr50boom]

Elwood, please step out of the car

Dude, relax. We're not saying CAP can't change people's lives for the better, or help them stay away from the wrong crowd, build a better future, yadda, yadda. What some of us are saying is it's a pretty lame way to get there, and IOHO it may turn more people off than on to the military since seeing all that buffoonery in the teenage years sometimes forces the "Kiss my a$$" reflex to kick in.

Something you really have to think about. Did the people you're referring to join the military because of their positive experiences in CAP? Or did they want to anyway, joined CAP, then joined the military in spite of their CAP experiences?

HD-The guy in the middle has waaaay too much hair to be M2

[Guest scottaxelson]

If you cant laugh at people in CAP then who can you laugh at? (I like many others on this board who have been makin funny comments did CAP(in ROTC) so weve been there)

[ 16. May 2006, 20:28: Message edited by: a nav ]

[Guest KoolKat]

"If you cant laugh at people in CAP then who can you laugh at?"

I ALWAYS have myself! Always. Every day. All the time. Alot. Even right now. Always.

But I still think this thread has been hilarious.

BENDY

[HerkDerka]

On the other hand Boom, if he's going to roll in like this on his first post, I think he needs a little wake up.

Originally posted by Elwood Blues:

Hello all you hypocritical idiots that want to tear at a program that you could likely not even complete.

Yeah you're right. I guess completing ROTC, UPT, FTU, and combat time in OIF, OEF, & OEF-HOA don't quite compare to the rigor of CAP.

On short notice I cannot provide any real proof of the accomplishments that former CAP cadets have had

I can.

CAP Accomplishments

but I will enclose a link to a former Cadet that went on to VMI, and died in Iraq as a member of Special Forces.

You don't need to preach to the choir here. The majority of the posters here have seen combat and some more than others.

So, since you just simply have no idea what it is to be a cadet you should just shut your trap doors just like your ma ma's thought you - if you do not have something nice to say just simply don't say it.

The best way to give advice is to have the ability to follow it yourself.

By the way, I completed the program and today I am a Combat Engineer in the US Army. I have no idea where I would be today, or what friends I would have had if I had not joined and stuck with the program.

Are you sure you're not getting it confused with Boy's Town?

Welcome to the board Elwood. However I suggest you read threads THOROUGHLY before you try to take the entire thread to a kindergarten level. This thread was not started as a "bash CAP" thread. A few might have taken it there, but overall not the point. The thread is for a laugh, period.

Second, before you start accusing people of the inability to complete a program like CAP you might want to keep your man-pleaser shut for a minute an contemplate the qualifications of a good majority of the posters in this forum.

Most of our posters are at least in the military and I think any accession training clearly proves the ability to pass military training even at the CAP level. Along the lines of specialties you are dealing mostly with pilots, a large number of seasoned IPs/EPs, WIC graduates, and almost all with extensive combat experience.

Please think this through before starting a flame war in your next post.

HD

[ 16. May 2006, 20:50: Message edited by: HerkDerka ]

[ClearedHot]

I never thought I would see the day there was a flame war over CAP.

[Guest thebronze]

On short notice I cannot provide any real proof of the accomplishments that former CAP cadets have had or the sacrifices that they have made, but I will enclose a link to a former Cadet that went on to VMI, and died in Iraq as a member of Special Forces

Are you THAT much a buffoon to think that the CAP did that?

Or do you think maybe it could've been the four years at VMI? Or maybe OCS? Or maybe OBC? Or maybe SFAS?

If you don't know what those are, then you ARE a buffoon.

If you EVER had the gonads to tell one of his SF buddies that he got the way he was due to being in the CAP, they'd kick your ass off planet Earth...that is after they got done laughing at you.

Congratulations Rookie-Beotch, you just let everyone on this board know that you're a complete fool!

*Edited for spelling.

Sorry, pulled a Bender...

[ 16. May 2006, 22:36: Message edited by: Johann ]

[Guest HiWattStack]

Hi everyone...middle-aged FNG here.

Did time in both the Guard and CAP. I support the Air Force now through being active in the Air Force Association.

I wasn't a cadet, though - I was a senior member. I wore CAP railroad tracks but I tried not to be one of these types that think they're actually military officers with right of command over military personnel. If I got a salute, cool; returned it, got on with things. If I didn't, I usually said "good morning/afternoon/evening, Airman/Sergeant" and got on with things. Didn't try to go to the O-Club and only went to the BX to get uniform items.

It always embarrassed the crap out of me to see the CAP people who didn't take the time to wear the uniform properly; i.e., have it cleaned/pressed, etc. But then I had been in the military so I knew how to do that.

It embarrassed the crap out of me even more to see CAP officers trying to coerce salutes from military people who could be called upon to take a bullet (by the way, to all you who saw combat or may see combat; hell, to all of you who served and/or are serving honorably - ) while CAP people don't have to. CAP personnel do not, repeat, do not, have the right to do that. CAP regulations state that military personnel are not obligated to render salutes to CAP personnel, but can do so if they wish. Little-known corollary to that: CAP personnel must, per CAP and Air Force regs, render military C&C's to Armed Forces commissioned officers and warrant officers, and military officers can chew them a new poop chute if they don't. CAP officers are also supposed to salute one another, but that's the exception, not the rule.

The SP's on the gates of the bases where I went usually got to know me and knew I wasn't going to pull rank I didn't have or try to go somewhere I wasn't supposed to, so I didn't have too many problems with them.

I think CAP was a good program at one time for both kids and adults, but I don't think it really is any more, which is why I decided to get out. It isn't worth paying $50-odd bucks a year, plus buying all your own uniforms, to put up with the politics and BS.

I knew some of the Hitlerjugend cadets you're talking about (I was usually pretty good at deflating those), but even worse were the "helicopter parents" (most of whom never served) with the Little League mentality. However, there were also some kids who really did try, and they were cool...though I always told them not to miss out on life, friends, family, school, religious activities, etc. by making CAP 24/7/365.

Two former CAP cadets who went on to bigger and better:

CPT Scott O'Grady

CPT (or is it MAJ now?) Nicole Malachowski

I never approved of CAP making everyone an "officer". All you have to do is show up for six months and you get 2LT. I always thought there should have been enlisted ranks. I guess there were at one time but not now.

As far as uniforms and bling go, CAP is getting a new uniform that kind of looks like a cross between a Navy and AF uni (double-breasted, AF blue), and I think that'll probably eventually replace the modified AF uni they wear now, but I don't know that for sure. On this new uni they can only wear CAP ribbons; no military ribbons or devices. They've also got "distinctive" dark-blue BDU's and flight suits too, which I think is a good thing, but some of them are already wanting to wear the new Air Force combat uniform, and I don't think that's needed.

Actually, to be a Spaatz Cadet does take some work, so I wouldn't be too quick to dismiss this girl who achieved it. Whether or not it'll prepare her for the military is another story. The TI's aren't really going to be impressed with her CAP bling and it wouldn't be a good idea to advertise it.

I used to wear my ribbons just on my service coat, and I only wore that a couple of times a year.

There are senior members who take it seriously, too, but unfortunately the ones who act like they're really in the AF are the ones who get all the bad publicity.

CAP is (for now) an auxiliary of the Air Force - but only when performing Air Force assigned missions. At all other times, it's a volunteer, nonprofit organization.

I was aircrew (observer) but didn't belong to a squadron with an airplane so I didn't get to do as much flying as some of the ones who burn up AVGAS on the Air Force's dime. I did do some interesting counterdrug flying, though.

If it were stripped-down, top to bottom, and completely reorganized along something like the U.S. Coast Guard Auxiliary is (they actually get to serve alongside the active CG), I might shave off my beard, get a haircut and rejoin CAP, but I don't see that happening soon, because too many people at the top level of that organization have a vested interest in maintaining the "status quo" and don't want the Air Force looking over their shoulder too much.

Makes the ones who really are dedicated to CAP's missions look bad.

[ 16. May 2006, 23:10: Message edited by: HiWattStack ]

[Guest KoolKat]

4 words... I wonder what my first post on this forum was...Wow.

Wow.

"Look, I know you've been in the AF for 23 years...I know you've flown into combat 198 times....I know your still serving, but your an idiot. Shut your trap, you don't know what CAP is like!"

Yeah...pretty sure that wasn't it...

Thanks for the F'ing laugh there pal...STFU!

BENDY

[Guest thebronze]

"It's a CAP thing, you wouldn't understand..."

Tool...

[PapaJu]

I think there's been too much talk of CAP on here. Might be violating their OPSEC. :rolleyes:

[Hacker]

Originally posted by HiWattStack:

Two former CAP cadets who went on to bigger and better:

CPT Scott O'Grady

CPT (or is it MAJ now?) Nicole Malachowski

Dude...please do not ever make the mistake of putting FiFi in the same sentence as Zulu. FiFi has some legitimate accomplishments. Aside from not being captured while on the ground in Bosnia, I'm still searching for those "bigger and better" things for Zulu. Besides, if I were trying to show the great people that CAP has produced, I would certainly NOT use O'Grady as an example!

[ 17. May 2006, 04:17: Message edited by: Hacker ]

[noodles]

Great stuff: AF members in CAP

[matmacwc]

F-ing dorks, but they dont know better. I was hoping some common sense infiltrator would show up, but no avail. I would but I'm shining my CAP ribbons right now......

[M2]

I'm shining my CAP ribbons right now......

STS...e.g.

[matmacwc]

STS...e.g.

You've been waiting months for a post to follow up with that......

[Napoleon_Tanerite]

Great stuff: AF members in CAP

facepalm.gif

I volunteer with CAP and more often than not I wear my bag when I'm there. I do have a set of CAP uniforms that I wore when I worked their encampment last summer, but I rarely wear any CAP uniform other than their polo shirt.

The same thing applies in 2011 as applied in 2006 when this thread was new. CAP is a solid program with a lot to offer young people. I was a CAP cadet back in high school, and I got a lot out of it, and I think it directly contributed to where I am today. That's why I am back with the program now-- to offer the same opportunity to today's cadets.

The problem comes when people (especially senior members) take it too seriously and convince themselves that CAP is anything more than a volunteer service organization that has received the blessing of the AF to wear the AF uniform and associate themselves with the AF image. Aside from a few adopted practices and customs, CAP is nothing like the military, and should never be confused for it. I've "counseled" several cadets and SMs regarding that subject.

I disagree with people who generalize CAP as being nothing but a bunch of ate up toolbags playing military. Yes there is that element, and poor leadership allows for it; however, at it's foundation (and when properly executed) the CAP cadet program is one of the best leadership and character development program available to teenagers. If you think CAP is that jacked up and producing shit-tier cadets-- VOLUNTEER and offer your expertise. I've actually learned a LOT about leadership by working with CAP, so there are benefits there for adult members as well.

[nrodgsxr]

I just joined CAP so i can feel like a pilot again. I'm hoping to volunteer and do some fun and rewarding missions since I get none of that satisfaction anymore at work. It really seems like a good program. Most of the guys in the group I joined are retired AF pilots anyways.