Non-Availibility lodging/letter

[Dupe]

Dupe, as I recall, once your TLE period ends, you only get BAH after that. So you can stay wherever you want, because you won't actually get reimbursed anything else.

That's the data I needed. Thanks. Sounds like I'm just a consumer on the free market...as I'll be burning all my TLE at my current base. Its ashame that the AF-provided options don't come close to comparing to what I can find outside the gates. I'll take my Marriott points and like it.

[silverwolf0911]

I've got a strange question that may seem a bit unique.

I am currently TDY. When I called the base inn to book lodging prior to my trip, I was told they were all full and they'll issue me a non-availability letter. They could only fax it to me since their email was down that day...I was told to come by when I arrive in town to pick it up. So, I go ahead and book an off-base hotel for my stay.

On my travel day in (a Sunday), I called the base lodging to ask if I needed to come on base to pick up the non-availability letter BEFORE I check into the off-base hotel. I preferred to just pick up the letter when I come on base the next day (on Mon) when I'll be on base anyways for work. I wasn't sure if the "effective date" or "issue date" or whatever equivalent was based on when it was issued (when I called ahead of time) or when I picked it up (Sunday, my travel day). I also had a ~2hr drive from the airport to the hotel, the base was another 20 mins out, and the wx was going to shit... so I didn't want to drive out to base and back to my hotel in the shitty wx just to pick up a letter.

Anyways, the lady on the phone said I could just pick up the non-avail letter whenever because it was already input in their system.

So I checked into the off-base hotel and all was well--or so I thought.

On Monday, I drove by base lodging and now they said they can't give me the non-availability letter. At this point, due to the shitty wx, they had a lot of cancellations. So now they have rooms available and so she can't issue me the letter.

My question is whether the letter was already "issued" when I first called and attempted to book a room? My thought is... if I had a fax machine and they faxed it before I even left for this trip, I would be good to go. But due to that logistical issue (which seems trivial), no letter for me? Ideally, I'd like there to be some rule or something I can show base lodging that will "make" them print me this letter so I can claim my voucher appropriately.

Also, I don't mind moving hotels to get on base (even though that's a huge pain in the ass)... I just don't want to be forced to pay for the difference in lodging costs for the days I spent in the off-base hotel.

Any thoughts?

[HossHarris]

You checked for availability and there was none. You only have to check once.

You can self-certify non-a but most folks will give you the hairy eyeball.

Talk to the lodging manager and get him to print you out a non-a. The worker bee at the desk prolly doesn't have the leeway or authority to do it.

[stract]

you are only required to check once, so the originial non-a is valid. You technically don't even need an actual non-a slip, an MFR will suffice, according to the JFTR. I don't have the para handy, but it's definitely quoted elsewhere in this thread.

[HossHarris]

And dts will let you self certify non-a as well

[silverwolf0911]

Thanks. I did some searching thru the JFTR and found these:

Quote

U2560 GOV’T QTRS AVAILABLE

A. Checking GOV’T QTRS Availability

....

2. The member is not required to seek/check for GOV’T QTRS when TDY to a U.S. INSTALLATION/ RESERVATION after non-availability documentation has been initially provided.

Quote

U2570 TRAVEL ORDER/VOUCHER

A. Documentation. Availability/non-availability must be documented by the member by:

1. Confirmation number provided by the Service’s lodging registration process; or

2. The date the member attempted to make reservations, and the phone number and name of the billeting office PoC; or

3. Member certification that GOV’T QTRS were not available on arrival.

B. Authorization/Approval. When a member provides acceptable documentation of GOV’T QTRS nonavailability, the AO must authorize/approve reimbursement for commercial lodgings.

C. Paper Non-Availability Statement Not Required (Effective 1 October 1995). Per USD(P&R) memorandum, dated 29 August 1995, DoD travelers are not required to obtain paper non-availability statements to justify reimbursement for commercial lodging and per diem.

Spoke with my approving official and I think I'm good w/o the non-A slip.

[HossHarris]

A few tips:

-You don't have to convince billeting there that you are right, you have to convince the finance shop paying your voucher that you are right. They are usually more familiar with nuances of the JFTR.

-a non-a still solves all the problems, questions, and after the fact legwork. Go back in a week and talk to the lodging manager. Lay out your case and see if you can get that paper. A little effort up front, and the right attitude and demeanor, can save you a shit ton of work and convincing after the fact.

-you are plainly in the right...it's just a matter of how much effort you want to put into it.

[guardguy]

Just to make sure I got this right..... I am TDY for 100 days. Lodging provided me a non-a for 4 days, then reserved me a room on base for remainder. Sounds like I'm good to go for off base for the length of the TDY, correct? Should I bother bringing up the JFTR and having them change my non-a from 4 days to 100?

Also, I'll be on back to back orders. After the first 100 day order, will I have to check out since they are separate order numbers?

[nunya]

The issue is not with lodging. Your non-A does not have to say 100 days.

The issue, however, is with your finance shop. Per the JFTR you can stay the other 96 days off base and they cannot legally refuse to pay you. You're a guard guy presumably staying with one unit for many, many years. You know your unit better than any of us. Will it burn bridges to spend several grand extra out of the budget? Sometimes what's legal and what's right are different.

[ARIs 'R' Us]

The issue is not with lodging. Your non-A does not have to say 100 days.

That's mostly correct, unless you're at an AETC base for "TDY-to-school" (non AETC bases, like Dover for C-5 training claim this too, but I don't believe the reg states that specifically, YMMV).

The reference reg is AFI 34-246. Bottom line, if you're at a school, they may have the option to move you one time on or off base. So it'd be better to start on base, so that your one move would place you, and keep you off base.

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Side note, I recommend all aircrew reading the non-A section in 34-246. That way when you go TDY to, say, Aviano and the General Manager (who's name might be Jeff) refuses to give you a non A unless you let him book the hotel room off base, you can politely tell him to go to hell with a reference to his own AFI.

It may not get you the non-A, but it will make getting the voucher paid easier, and (more importantly) it will make you feel better.

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[Herk Driver]

Read the JFTR. I'll let Finance Guy chime in, but unless something has changed...The JFTR has the force of law and AFIs do not. The bottom line is that finance pays your voucher not the dude at billeting. This is the age old functional trying to usurp JFTR authority that doesn't belong to him.

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Edited June 17, 2014 by Herk Driver

[ARIs 'R' Us]

Read the JFTR...The JFTR has the force of law and AFIs do not. The bottom line is that finance pays your voucher not the dude at billeting.

Agreed.

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[guardguy]

Any thoughts on the orders that start after the 100 day set?

[HossHarris]

If it's a new tdy, you have to check again.

[HeyWatchThis]

I was told that either way, you don't HAVE to stay on base because they can't force you to spend money at a certain location however they only have to give you the base rate if lodging is available and you still opt to stay off base while TDY?

[HossHarris]

True.

Read the jftr.

[stract]

That's mostly correct, unless you're at an AETC base for "TDY-to-school" (non AETC bases, like Dover for C-5 training claim this too, but I don't believe the reg states that specifically, YMMV).

The reference reg is AFI 34-246. Bottom line, if you're at a school, they may have the option to move you one time on or off base. So it'd be better to start on base, so that your one move would place you, and keep you off base.

Recommend you read the JFTR. An AFI cannot trump or contradict the JFTR, and is therefore a poor reference. As long as you know what the JFTR says (in this case it says you only have to check ONCE), then it doesn't matter what some AFI says.

[Learjetter]

....Will it burn bridges to spend several grand extra out of the budget? Sometimes what's legal and what's right are different.

Quoted for emphasis. Find out who's paying your bill...spend your taxpayer-alloyed funds wisely...especially if your TDY is unit funded. Talk to your unit FM or DTS or "TDY orders" guy and see what's "standard" for your unit--if it's jiggy with the JFTR, just do that.

I once agreed to let a guy PCS in then go unit-funded O&B TDY to training. I allocated $7K for the month's rental car, airfare, and on-base perdiem and lodging. He spent the month off-base and spent a LOT more, legally, but without our knowledge, and royally pissed off the commander before he'd even met the guy. We paid his bill, of course, but were then unable to accomplish 3-4 other TDYs that year....

Technique only.

[JS]

The issue is not with lodging. Your non-A does not have to say 100 days.

I am trying to figure this out as well. At a certain AMC/AETC combined base, the lodging folks are telling me that I have to stay on base for 3 days, then they will cut a non-A letter for 1 day only, then I will have to move back on base for the remaining 15 days of my TDY. They asked me three times if I was a student, which I replied all three times that I was not. Makes me think there is some kind of student policy about being forced to move back on base.

So, in reading the JTFR and these posts, here is where I think this is covered, as someone else already posted:

"1. A member ordered to use GOV’T QTRS on a U.S. INSTALLATION (as opposed to a town/city) is required

to check GOV’T QTRS availability (through the CTO) at (not near) the assigned U.S. INSTALLATION.

2. The member is not required to seek/check for GOV’T QTRS when TDY to a U.S. INSTALLATION/

RESERVATION after non-availability documentation has been initially provided.

3. Example: A member, who is required to check QTRS availability on arrival at a U.S. INSTALLATION,

does so and certifies non-availability, or is issued non-availability documentation. The member cannot be

required to re-check later for QTRS availability at that U.S. INSTALLATION during that TDY period there.

See par. U2570."

So, in playing devil's advocate, how could I justify staying off base the remaining 15 days with a non-A for only one day? The JTFR says I have to show "non availability documentation," in order to not have to come back on base, but it doesn't specify how many days that non-available documentation has to be good for. In other words, what makes the above quote about the non-A not having to state 100 days true? I could easily argue (if I were a finance weenie) that your non-A does indeed have to state 100 days, otherwise you are not complying with the "non-availability documentation" requirement of the JTFR.

[Breckey]

Any non-A given to you by lodging is good for your entire stay per Para 2. The non-A documentation could be an MFR that you sign yourself. I believe that AETC has a reg somewhere that the commander of can force you back on base for good order and discipline or something of the sort. I've never ops tested the latter, all of my schools could care less if you're off base because they're not paying the bill.

Edit: Found it. It only applies to students at the school house but they can't force you to move back on base once they give you the non-a. I'm sure this is interpreted incorrectly by many lodging and finance weenies but the JFTR is the law and the AFI can't be more "restrictive"

AFI34-246

3.2 VQ Reservation Process. At the time lodging confirms the reservation request, the staff must inform TDY personnel whether their reservation is confirmed for on-base lodging or off-base lodging. If on-base lodging is not available, the guest has the option to accept a nonavailability number (NA) and find their own hotel or allow lodging to assist them with off-base lodging by staying at one of our contract lodging (CL) hotels. The member is authorized an NA or CL if adequate lodging is unavailable on base for the entire TDY period. If space becomes available in on-base lodging after CL reservation confirmation or NA number issuance, lodging should make an effort to maximize occupancy by attempting to notify the traveler of the change and encouraging the traveler to stay on base.

NOTES: The traveler is not required to stay in on-base lodging after he/she has already received a NA number or was issued a CL reservation confirmation.

3.2.1. Lodging Procedures for students who are TDY-to-school (AETC Bases) are as follows:
3.2.1.2. Managers must maximize the use of on base lodging. This means that managers may require students to be lodged both on and off base during the course of their TDY, provided students are only moved once and the length of stay in both locations is at least 5 days. For example, if students arrive and space is available for the first 5 days on base and the length of the TDY is 10 days, managers must place the students on base and then move them to off base lodging for the remaining 5 days. Students must receive 24-hour notice of any move on or off base.

Edited July 28, 2014 by Breckey

[Fuzz]

AFI 34-246:

3.2.1. Lodging Procedures for students who are TDY-to-school (AETC Bases) are as follows:

3.2.1.2. Managers must maximize the use of on base lodging. This means that managers may require students to be lodged both on and off base during the course of their TDY, provided students are only moved once and the length of stay in both locations is at least 5 days. For example, if students arrive and space is available for the first 5 days on base and the length of the TDY is 10 days, managers must place the students on base and then move them to off base lodging for the remaining 5 days. Students must receive 24-hour notice of any move on or off base.

Edited July 28, 2014 by Fuzz

[JS]

Any non-A given to you by lodging is good for your entire stay per Para 2. The non-A documentation could be an MFR that you sign yourself. I believe that AETC has a reg somewhere that the commander of can force you back on base for good order and discipline or something of the sort. I've never ops tested the latter, all of my schools could care less if you're off base because they're not paying the bill.

Edit: Found it. It only applies to students at the school house but they can't force you to move back on base once they give you the non-a. I'm sure this is interpreted incorrectly by many lodging and finance weenies but the JFTR is the law and the AFI can't be more "restrictive"

AFI34-246

Maybe we are talking about two different things, but they want to give me a non-A letter that is good for only one day. The reg you quoted talks about a non-availability for the entire TDY. It seems to me that they are trying to work around the system and get you to move back on base by giving you a non-A for only one day as opposed for the entire stay, which is probably what they are supposed to be doing.

So again, maybe I am missing it, but if the non-A letter is only good for one night, how does Para 2 that I quoted entitle you to stay in contract lodging for the entire TDY?

[Fuzz]

If they start you on base, then give you a Non-A, they must give it to you for the entire time. They can only move you once, either off base to on or on base to off. But they can't bounce you back and forth every other day to keep their rooms maxed out.

[ARIs 'R' Us]

So again, maybe I am missing it, but if the non-A letter is only good for one night, how does Para 2 that I quoted entitle you to stay in contract lodging for the entire TDY?

The problem, of course, is that aircrew generally like staying off base, and the finance/lodging folks know it and hate us for it.

1. According to the JFTR, if they can't give you availability for your entire stay, that's considered "non-a," which you can either get them to certify, or you can yourself if the refuse. In the second case you're right, but expect some pushback when filling out the voucher.

2. According to the AFI, you should stay in lodging for the first few days, and then move (and stay) off base...or vise versa. You should be able to convince them of that by citing their own reg, which also instructs lodging managers to maximize their occupancy rates by "encouraging" members to stay on base.

Either way, you have a valid case for not moving back on base after one day, which would be stupid. The only thing you want to consider is how hard it will be to get your reasoning past your unit's DTS shop.

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[Chicken]

Quick question regarding TDY location.. tried to make reservations at Mildenhall for 30ish people. Mildenhall had no rooms but made reservations for us at Lakenheath.. if my TDY location is Mildenhall, am I in my right to secure my own lodging off base or do I have to accept lodging at Lakenheath because of its proximity?

Thanks.