RIF Beginning

[WHAP]

Most of the guys on this board havent seen a RIF (myself included), but is this what it was like after Gulf 1 and other historic AF RIFs?

Air Force notifies force shaping lieutenants

5/10/2006 - RANDOLPH AIR FORCE BASE, Texas (AFPN) -- Today, 2,084 lieutenants in the 2002 and 2003 accession year groups will learn if they were selected for retention by the Force Shaping Board.

Each officer is being notified personally of their status by their senior rater. Officers deployed will be notified by either the deployed commander or their home station senior rater.

The Force Shaping Board, led by a two-star board president, was broken down into panels of five consisting of one brigadier general and four colonels on each panel. Panel members were selected from the career fields of the officers affected.

"The members of this board were charged by the secretary of the Air Force to perform the complex task of right-sizing our junior officer force by specialty,” said Maj. Gen. Glenn Spears, director of force management policy, deputy chief of staff for manpower and personnel, Headquarters U.S. Air Force.

“The board members were acutely aware of the magnitude of their role in serving on the first board thus institutionalizing the FSB process and ensuring the officer corps is balanced and sustainable," General Spears said.

Officers were evaluated for retention based on information in their central selection record. The record contained evaluation reports, decorations and the Retention Recommendation Form.

Officers not selected for retention will be separated no later than Sept. 29 but are still eligible to apply for the Palace Chase or the Blue to Green programs.

"The Air Force values the selfless service and sacrifice of these officers who volunteered to serve,” General Spears said. “We wish them all the best in their future endeavors. It is our hope they will choose to continue their service to our great nation.”

Palace Chase applicants should first contact a local Guard or Reserve recruiter to secure a position and then their local military personnel flight for an application and assistance with filling out the forms. Officers interested in transferring to the Guard or Reserve may avoid a break in service provided they apply by Aug. 1.

Likewise, eligible officers interested in continuing their service in the Army must apply to the Blue to Green program by June 15 to ensure there is no impact on their service dates. Officers should contact their local military personnel flight and the U.S. Army Human Resources Command to begin the process.

Army human resources can be reached at www.hrc.army.mil/site/active/opdistacc/IST/CIST.HTM or via the Defense Switched Network at 221-3764 or commercial (703) 325-4471. Applicants must provide the Army a statement of qualification, a physical dated within one year, the officer's evaluation reports and copies of their college transcripts.

Those officers looking for opportunities to continue to serve as a civil service employee should visit the Office of Personnel Management Web site at www.usajobs.opm.gov for more information.

Officers not selected for retention will receive an information package explaining any entitlements they may be eligible for like separation pay and their transition benefits such as transitional healthcare coverage and permissive temporary duty. Officers should contact the appropriate base agency for more information regarding the benefits detailed in the package.

For the latest information on force shaping, visit www.afpc.randolph.af.mil/retsep/forceshaping/shape.htm.

[ 10. May 2006, 12:01: Message edited by: WHAP ]

[Guest Hydro130]

When I was in ROTC in the early 90s, my Det CC (A-10 dude, Gulf War vet and all -- great guy) was RIFd mid-year.

Talk about awkward...

That was hard to watch happen.

Hydro

Yes, rated guys could do ROTC gigs "back then". Man, I'm getting old, I guess...

[ 10. May 2006, 21:31: Message edited by: Hydro130 ]

[WHAP]

Yeah, Im waiting to hear how many of my friends didnt get retained. Its really unfortunate in so many ways, but i got into ROTC in 01 and they were handing out scholarships left and right to almost anybody who had a pulse and didnt weigh 250, by the time i graduated they were only actively recruiting engineers, nurses, and weather guys.

[C17Driver]

WHAP,

What's sad is they are now force shaping wx guys...go figure.

[HerkDerka]

Originally posted by WHAP:

"The Air Force values the selfless service and sacrifice of these officers who volunteered to serve,” General Spears said. “We wish them all the best in their future endeavors. It is our hope they will choose to continue their service to our great nation.”

This is one of the most bullshit statements I have ever heard plop out of a senior officer's mouth.

Translation:

"Ummmm yeah. Thanks for serving and all. We really do hope you continue to serve in the future......just not with us. Don't let the door hit you on the way out."

HD

[M2]

Go read CH's post about his Mom, then think about how much USAF "love" these lieutenants are feeling at this time. Now check your priorities...

Cheers! M2

[Bergman]

From the AFPC website

[Guest Pike]

Well, it looks like I'm out like a fat kid in dodge ball myself...

The things that piss me off about this whole subjective and not objective process: plenty of turds squeaked by and lots of solid people just got the axe. Guess the AF will be stocked with plenty of folks that are good at playing the game and fitting the AF PC mold like they want (not including the exceptions).

Prime example is a person in my office who has 14 yrs and is a contracting officer - got a lower rating just because she had just PCS'd into our office. She was a solid individual and had pretty good OPRs. It's a damn shame, but at least she'll get some money unlike most of us...even though that doesn't make up for being so close to retirement.

Another example is a close friend of mine who was ranked 2/6 as a loggy by a Maj and his Col changed his ranking to 4/6 and so he got axed - even though the Maj was directly responsible for all 6 individuals - WTF?!? Of course his Maj was a ###### and didn't cowboy up for him, no he just let it go - also have seen that in quite a few instances...supervisors not agreeing with ratings but not willing to go to bat for anyone. Maybe I don't fit "the mold", but I'm sorry, if I see my Lt getting screwed and he has worked his ass off for me, I'm not just going to sit and watch it happen. At certain times, you have to think about more than just yourself and your own career.

Also, it goes to show you it's not always how hard you work...it's about doing the "visible" things, who you know/blow, and being at the right place/position at the right time...

I know this wasn't an easy task for a lot of higher-ups that had to make these decisions...but this should've been done as objectively as possible and not such a damn popularity contest...

I also know plenty of people look great on paper, because of strong OPR writers or just being at the right place at the right time, but still suck.

Anyways, I'm done ranting...just a little bitter, I'll get over myself. Life goes on and I'll be stronger for it.

Looking forward to the next stage in life. Hopefully going to UPT for a guard/reserve unit and fulfilling my real dream.

[Guest SpectrePilot]

I feel bad for the guy in the last post, so I really hate to make any comments.

But y'all know me!

Let's look at some of those career fields. The ones we all know are typically absolute quagmires of bureaucracy and inaction, specifically: finance, contracting, maintenance, and security forces. (don't get me started on the last one...)

Anyway, does anyone think those areas could work any worse without a LT hanging around and "in charge"?

A new officer put into those career fields has absolutely no chance of making a real difference anyway, just due the nature of the goat-rope they already are.

So, I guess they picked some of the right areas. If it's so f--ked up a LT can't fix it, why have the LT??

Bummer.

[Guest Pike]

Good points. Some times in life you don't choose your career field you go into, it chooses you.

Some one has to do these jobs...believe me, I'd rather be flying any day of the week. I'd still rather stay and serve in the AF, contribute any way I can and not fly then be out of the AF and not fly (at least I used to think this). Who knows, maybe this will change my tune...

[Guest KoolKat]

Maj, I have to disagree to a certain extent...

Some LTs can make a difference, even in those career fields.

The real problem is that MOST LTs are not capable of stepping up right away and making a difference.

I wish they were, but that's just not the case.

I agree with you for the most part, I feel bad for Pike too. That sucks. But, there isn't a single field where we didn't keep an LT.

There are some really sharpe Lts in service, and they do make a difference...

I don't evny the people on those boards...and I don't envy the people that got bad news today.

BENDY

[Guest Hydro130]

"Needs of the Air Force..."

Questions?

Sucks, but that's how it works, Hydro

[Guest SpectrePilot]

Until you can "hire & fire" in the Air Force, like the real world, it will be impossible to make a difference in any career field.

I happen to be in one of very few specialties right now where I can almost do that. But in general, you can't even do that with pilots, no matter how dangerous-- or great-- they may be.

So I stand by my statement. No 23-year-old LT can fix the mess of those career fields. Hell, except for recommending disenrollment of the occasional UPT student (and usually overridden), no MAJOR can fix anything either!

[Guest KoolKat]

Understand, Sir. Didn't consider it as one person fixing it, only making good strides towards fixing it, even a real difference.

Agree completely, the system has to change to allow one the time to actually fix something. That isn't provided for a new LT, even if he could.

We put civilians in those positions...maybe we should let them get shot at every now and then...

That could help.

BENDY

[Guest KoolKat]

OPRs & similar documents are well within your control. Especially for non-rated career fields.

I feel sympathy for all of you that got bad news yesterday. It's tough enough making changes that big in your life when you choose to do it in advance. Doing it on short notice when you didn't choose it, that has to be stressful.

I wish you the best.

I don't think for a bloddy second that what happened was the AF removing the tools from our LT force. That would be idealistic, I'm well past that point.

We reduced the numbers, some tools remain, some good LTs go...like Hydro said, it's the way it is.

You still have to opportunity to get back in the AF or go fly fo the army or even the marines, if that's intersting to you.

I was just poking at you...your a good sport. I shouldn't poke at you right now.

Good luck, Pike.

BENDY

[Guest Pike]

Thanks dude, no biggie.

I'm definitely open to any advice. I'm applying to numerous units this summer, so hopefully I get picked up by one.

[Guest SpectrePilot]

Marines are still actively seeking pilots. However, their standards are tougher and they don't "promise" you a pilot slot. They expect you to be a Marine/ warrior first. Period.

(Maybe the AF should try this approach??)

If already a commissioned officer, you still must go through their TBS-- platoon leader school.

You'll have to be ready to kick ass and shave your head. But, the chances of getting what they call an "aviation contract" are good if you got the smarts.

In my career, the most well-rounded, whole-person, top-character pilots I've ever met have been Marines. (A lot of "buzz-words" used there, but they actually mean something in the Corps!)

Get stuck in a ditch in the middle of the night with a fat chick and need somebody to wake up and come pull you out without telling anyone, call a Marine. (Haven't tested this exact scenario yet, but I guarantee it would apply!)

[BFM this]

I'm hoping, for what little faith I have left in my fellow officers' common sense, that noone expected this process to actually be productive or useful. That it (the process) would in any way be able to separate the wheat from the chaff, the turds from the punch, the weak swimmers from strong performers, the tools from the...whatever. I lost all hope when they said FY 02 and 03.

I was OTS class 04-01. That's right: my senior class was three weeks inside the threat ring, and my class missed it by 4. I know in my heart of hearts that there were some awesome peeps in 03-14 that got the axe and some in my own class whose names I would gladly see submitted to the board and whom I'm sure to meet as a Capt or beyond someday.

There was no way that this was going to be equitible or even, in pessimistic terms, in the best interest of the Air Force. No F'in way.

Our best hope would have been to have the Office Space Bobs visit every base and pose the question to every LT: "So what is it, exactly, that ya do here?"

[Guest SuperStallionIP]

Originally posted by Safe&Clear:

Marines are still actively seeking pilots. However, their standards are tougher and they don't "promise" you a pilot slot. They expect you to be a Marine/ warrior first. Period.

(Maybe the AF should try this approach??)

If already a commissioned officer, you still must go through their TBS-- platoon leader school.

You'll have to be ready to kick ass and shave your head. But, the chances of getting what they call an "aviation contract" are good if you got the smarts.

In my career, the most well-rounded, whole-person, top-character pilots I've ever met have been Marines. (A lot of "buzz-words" used there, but they actually mean something in the Corps!)

Get stuck in a ditch in the middle of the night with a fat chick and need somebody to wake up and come pull you out without telling anyone, call a Marine. (Haven't tested this exact scenario yet, but I guarantee it would apply!)

Just to add...TBS is not OCS where you do shave your head. It is a basic exposure different aspects of the Corps, mostly in the form of academics but also some field time as well. It's not the most fun thing, but it isn't that bad either. The best thing about it is graduating and heading to Pensacola.

[Stiffler]

They should put me in charge of the RIF board. Id cut all the D-bags and keep the cool guys, in hopes of turning this ship around to the old days I keep hearing so much about.

[flynhigh]

Originally posted by Pike:

Ha, no, just restating my original point. That the way I saw this process performed sucked...and quite a few staying are tools...

Sucked to say the least. It is purely a numbers game, of which I am one. There has been no apparent logic behind who stays and who goes, other than luck of the draw. I was among a board of ~10 of which all of us were INVOLUNTARILY separated. Not more than a month later another board of approximatley the same number went up, and everyone was retained? Talk about bad timing!

Originally posted by Bender:

I feel sympathy for all of you that got bad news yesterday. It's tough enough making changes that big in your life when you choose to do it in advance. Doing it on short notice when you didn't choose it, that has to be stressful.

I wish you the best.

I don't think for a bloddy second that what happened was the AF removing the tools from our LT force. That would be idealistic, I'm well past that point.

I can deal with the separation, but as Bender said, it is a huge pain in the @ss to try and turn your life in a new direction, especially with a family.

Hopefully these INVOLUNTARY separations prove to be beneficial to the AF and increase our war fighting capability.

[Bergman]

Originally posted by KC135GuardDude:

They should put me in charge of the RIF board. Id cut all the D-bags and keep the cool guys, in hopes of turning this ship around to the old days I keep hearing so much about.

The tough part is trying to figure out who the douchebags are. Apparently, local commanders ranked everyone (thus pointing out the douchebags, I hope) but then, as usual, HHQ didn't seem to listen to their recommendations. WTF!? Again...typical.

I have battled this syndrome repeatedly at AMS. The staff will highlight someone who should NOT become an Officer...the paper trail is squared away...but the staff gets overruled. Thus, the douchebag gets commissioned and the Capts/Majs that are doing their best to weed out the a-holes get nice emails from the rest of the class saying "How did you guys let this happen?!"

Just a reminder that while the AF is a great career, we are serving at the convenience of Big Blue....and it's a one-way contract. We sign an ADSC. They can ditch us at any time. It sucks, but it's the price of admission.

Lastly...a reminder on the 3 truisms of the Air Force:

1. Life isn't fair

2. Timing is everything

3. There is no justice

[M2]

I have yet to see a force reduction done by the USAF that made any sense. It didn't back in the early 90's, and it doesn't now.

Berman's 3 truisms of the Air Force are spot on, it has nothing to do with how good of an officer you are. I've seen a lot of damn good officers shown the door, while some total douchebags go on to make O-6. Don't take it personally...

Cheers! M2

[Nanook]

Take it from someone who's been there (RIF; class of '93), the active duty AF has done you a huge favor. I know it sucks today, but take it as an opportunity to move onward and upward. Life gets better, I promise.

[Bergman]

Hope this hasn't been posted yet...best out-of-office reply ever:

I have been force shaped and I am no longer in the Air Force, in my absence your emails will be handled as follows:

Many thanks

P.S. Is your organization hiring?