Leave Questions

[Guest jkfaust]

This is probably an odd question, but I was wondering about vacation time. I know you guys get 30 days a year, but do you really get to use it all? If so, can it all be taken at once? I guess I’m having “commitment” issues, and was just wondering how sold my soul would be to the government for ten years or so of flying. Thanks.

[Guest C-21 Pilot]

I know you are talking about "Leave"...just some more info about it.

1.) You accumulate 2.5 days per month x 12 = 30 days per year.

2.) You are not allowed to carry more than 60 days of Leave past the fiscal year (1 Oct)...aka "Use or Lose". For example, you do the math and find out you will have 76 days of leave when 1 Oct comes around. You fail to take any leave and the AF will take away 16 days.

3.) With the above scenario, it is possible to have accumulated 90 days of leave.

4.) Enlisted folks can sell there leave back once. 30 days of leave equals 1 month base pay, then you get taxed 28%.

5.) Officers CANNOT do the above scenario.

6.) It look "bad" upon a member AND Commander for a person to accumulate a huge amount of leave. Some leadership will possibly question why a person hasn't taken leave, etc.

That's about all I can think of of the top of my head. I can guarantee you that you won't find any another organization in the U.S. where the leave accumulates like it does.

As far as getting to use it all, Leave is STRICTLY at the discretion of the Commander. As bullet #6 stated, if the mission permits, leave usually cannot be denied unless there are extreme circumstances.

It would be hard to justify to use it all at once. More than likely, it would be denied (anything over 3 weeks)...but again, it's mission/manning issues that run the show.

[Guest coexint]

I know it's somewhat of a long shot, but, are you granted any leave, weekend leave at UPT? I start @ Columbus on 30 Jul and was wondering if its feasible to go to a wedding on 21 Aug? I would have to leave the state and would only be gone the weekend. It would obviously be during Phase I, does that mean anything? Thanks!

[Guest JoeMama]

Just curious...how far can you go away from your UPT base on a weekend without taking leave, provided there's nothing going on that weekend?

If you want to leave Friday afternoon to visit your family 3 or 4 hours away and get back Sunday night, do you need permission?

[Toro]

Originally posted by Jordan:

how far can you go away from your UPT base on a weekend without taking leave, provided there's nothing going on that weekend?

Like Thebobgoat said, there is a radius designated at each base. From Columbus and Laughlin, I remember it being within a 4-5 hour drive (Austin was included for Laughlin, New Orleans and Atlanta for Columbus). It's basically a distance that you can drive safely and be able to return with enough rest time for the next duty day.

If you want to leave Friday afternoon to visit your family 3 or 4 hours away and get back Sunday night, do you need permission?

You don't need to take leave, but you're supposed to tell your flight commander for accountability sake.

[Guest guardhopefull]

I did a search but only got limited info. Basically I was wondering if they let you take leave to go home on the three and four day holiday weekends? Home will be about 750 miles away and I would fly commercial (if permitted).

With holidays that fall on Mondays do they usually take Friday off? Just wondering how the 4th of July will work as well as Memorial day. I will be at Laughlin by the way, I estimate I will hit the flight line around late June or early July. Thanks

[ 21. March 2005, 11:13: Message edited by: guard/reserve hopefull ]

[Bergman]

You will usually have the 3-4 day weekend off. What happened quite a few times (at Laughlin) was that we ended up flying on Saturday of the 3-day only to have Monday off. It's all dependant on the timeline...if you've had good WX and everyone is ahead of schedule, then you're golden. If it's the base is behind, you're flying Saturday!

Leave during those weekends will be on a case-by-case basis. If you have a good reason for needing leave (wedding, graduation, etc) then you should be OK. If you're just taking leave to go party in Dallas or something, then your Flt/CC will look at it more closely.

[Guest pcampbell]

The rule here at Sheppard is that we can go anywhere within a 6 hour drive. If we board an aircraft, we have to be on leave. The only leave we've been able to get approved was for Christmas, in between T-37 and T-38's, and emergency.

[Hotel]

Thread revival. I've searched on leave, and been reading through AFI 36-3003. Some questions for clarification...

I'm coming from a civilian job where I get 10 days of leave a year. So, I only use this for M-F dates. Holidays and weekends are freebies.

So, is it the same concept of M-F. Holidays and weekends don't count against my leave? The AFI was confusing on holidays:

4.10. Holidays. Public holidays established by Federal statute are non-working days, military operationspermitting. When a holiday falls on a Saturday, the non-working day is the preceding Friday.When a holiday falls on a Sunday, the non-working day is the following Monday. Holidays are chargeable leave days if they occur during an authorized period of leave. If departure on a period of leave is on a holiday, the holiday is not a day of leave. If return from an authorized period of leave is on a holiday, the holiday is a day of leave.

So, for example if I take leave from 3 July to 14 July the 4th of July, being chargeable (as I think it says in the AFI) would count as 1 day of leave. So instead of just having to take 9 days I would have to take 10 days.

Also, if I take leave and there happens to be a UTA over the weekend. I can just split up my UTA and make it up or come in on the alt UTA for that month. In doing so I'm not actually taking leave for a Sat and Sun?

Sorry, this AFI and the fact that military duty isn't a 9-5 M-F schedule made me wonder if leave is totally different than my civilian experience. Sounds like I'll have so much leave stored up it won't matter if I'm charged for holidays or weekends anyway, but wanted to clarify.

Oh, and I see previous posts about not having to take leave over the weekends at UPT if you're within x hours of base. But, friend of mine who graduated last year never took leave (that I know of) for a normal weekend in San Antonio, or for a 3 day weekends due to Labor Day and the like.

Thanks

[ 24. March 2006, 13:04: Message edited by: Hotel ]

[Toro]

Originally posted by Hotel:

So, for example if I take leave from 3 July to 14 July the 4th of July, being chargeable (as I think it says in the AFI) would count as 1 day of leave. So instead of just having to take 9 days I would have to take 10 days.

True - just like if you left down Friday and returned to work Monday you would have to take four days of leave to include Saturday and Sunday.

I don't know for sure on your UTA question, but big picture - if your leave brackets the weekend and you're not actually working on the weekend, then you should be charged leave for the weekend.

Originally posted by Hotel:

Oh, and I see previous posts about not having to take leave over the weekends at UPT if you're within x hours of base. But, friend of mine who graduated last year never took leave (that I know of) for a normal weekend in San Antonio, or for a 3 day weekends due to Labor Day and the like.

I went to UPT at Laughlin - went to San Antonio, Corpus Christi, Houston, - never took a day of leave.

[Guest swiney]

I have an interesting situation that I'm looking for advice on.

I commission on Thursday and begin my casual status assignment the following Wednesday. The problem is that I'm getting married on 30 Dec and we are supposed to be on a cruise for the first week of Jan. My cadre mentioned something about taking leave early and being in the hole (sts). I have heard of this done before but wanted some experienced thoughts on the subject. Will I be able to take leave or does this reflect badly on me? Should I contact my boss early to try to figure this out or just talk to him when I report in? Any thoughts or suggestions from people with similar experiences would be very helpful, Thanks!!

[Toro]

Confirm you're going to be a UPT student? Going 'in the hole' for leave isn't a problem at all - once you start training you're not going to take much/any leave for a couple years. 2.5 days a month times 24 months = you're pushing 'Use or Lose' leave by the end of that time. IMHO, it absolutely does not reflect badly on you to want to take some leave prior to starting UPT - especially for a wedding.

Call the orderly room wherever you're going (the number should be on your orders) and talk to somebody there. If you do have a sponsor, they should be able to help you out as well.

[Guest Fogo]

Before I start, I figured this was something I could search for, but couldn't find anything. If someone can point a thread out though; I'll gladly take my lumps and then read up.

Anyway, never had this situation come up in my short time, and I was looking for some answers before I tried to do it.

If your unit is having a down day on a Friday before a holiday on Monday (i.e. Columbus day upcoming) could I leave Thursday, after being done for the day, and not have to take any leave, and come back on Monday? Does it matter whether flying or driving etc? I wasn't sure about the specifics of beginning and ending in local area and working enough for a day to count, etc. I know it seems like a simple yes, but the flight I am looking to get leaves in the middle of the afternoon Thursday.

I'm just curious; I've got the days to use but why do that if I didn't have to?

Thanks

Edited September 13, 2007 by Fogo

[brabus]

This is what I've been told and have done several times: If you work a half day on Thu, then take off (regardless of flying/driving), you don't have to take leave for that day. My Flt/CC's through UPT have been cool about just writing us passes for such an event and we didn't take any leave. If that doesn't happen to you, you still will only take leave Fri-Mon. Plus, unless your boss his a huge douche and actually determines what "half day" is, you could really just peace out late morning to give yourself enough time to get to the airport, etc. It shouldn't be a big deal.

[Guest Boom]

The Wing Commander is the one who defines the "local area." Some bases have a 350 miles radius, some bases have an "must be able to get back within ___ hours after being recalled."

If you stay within the defined local area since it's technically a three day pass/holiday then go ahead and do it. If you go out of the local area, you have to be on leave.

[Herk Driver]

The Wing Commander is the one who defines the "local area." Some bases have a 350 miles radius, some bases have an "must be able to get back within ___ hours after being recalled."

If you stay within the defined local area since it's technically a three day pass/holiday then go ahead and do it. If you go out of the local area, you have to be on leave.

All true. But, 4-day passes are allowed these days so no technicality involved.

[dmeg130]

Just tell your SQ/CC or DO what your plans are and how they would like you to proceed. They're the ones who have to answer the mail if you end up at the Key West hospital without leave paperwork, and know what the Wing King's "intent" is. The half-day thing only counts for chargeable days of leave, it's not an official definition of a work day, otherwise I'd be home at noon everyday. Usually they'll say "as long as I can get ahold of you, that's cool". Using leave always covers your ass, but so does a well-informed commander.

[BADFNZ]

I have a question regarding this upcoming 3-day weekend. If I wanted to make this 3-day weekend into a 5-day weekend with taking the least amount of leave possible, would it be best to take leave on Tue and Wed? Would that mean Sat-Mon would not be leave? I know not to bracket the weekend, but if I use 2 consecutive days after a weekend, yet still fill out a Form 29B for Sat-Wed, will the whole trip be counted as leave even if I'm staying within the local area?

[Toro]

If I wanted to make this 3-day weekend into a 5-day weekend with taking the least amount of leave possible, would it be best to take leave on Tue and Wed?

Are you trying to go somewhere or no kidding stay in the local area?

If you are going somewhere, the only way to 'maximize' your leave is to start on Saturday. If you start your leave on a non-duty day, then that day is not counted against leave. Everything else is counted. So if you left on Saturday and came back on Wednesday, you'd be charged four days of leave.

Leave starts and ends in the local area, so if you are staying in the local area, you can start your leave on Tuesday (since Monday is a holiday) and you will be charged two days of leave.

[Finance_Guy]

I have a question regarding this upcoming 3-day weekend. If I wanted to make this 3-day weekend into a 5-day weekend with taking the least amount of leave possible, would it be best to take leave on Tue and Wed? Would that mean Sat-Mon would not be leave? I know not to bracket the weekend, but if I use 2 consecutive days after a weekend, yet still fill out a Form 29B for Sat-Wed, will the whole trip be counted as leave even if I'm staying within the local area?

See attached. Appears you can take LV and a Pass in conjunction with no duty days between. Leave rules are a personnel thing, but it seems finance always gets the questions. Leave is in AFI-36-3003. Attached is an MPF Memo from Mar 2007.

MPFM0720_LV_Pass.DOC

[BADFNZ]

Here's the scenario:

I graduated from OTS on 30 April and had PCS orders to XL with a TDY enroute to Brooks for MFS. I had three travel days from Maxwell to Brooks, which means I'd have to get there by the Saturday the 3rd if I didn't want to burn any leave. My MFS RNLTD was Tuesday 6 May, meaning I had Sunday and Monday to do jack shit. After MFS, I head to XL and later fill out my travel voucher.

Last Friday, I check my LES and it shows 2 days of leave were used, so I think WTF, I didn't use leave anywhere. I talk to the dude in Finance working on my voucher and he says since I had 2 days between the end of my travel days and the start of MFS, I am charged leave for those days. I tell him I was in the local area and have proof but he says it doesn't matter. He said OTS screwed up by out processing us on 30 April instead of 2 May, which would have left no gap between the travel days and the RNLTD to Brooks. Bullshit. I could be totally wrong here but I'm pretty sure this isn't how it's supposed to work.

So should I be charged leave for those 2 days?

[Butters]

He said OTS screwed up by out processing us on 30 April instead of 2 May, which would have left no gap between the travel days and the RNLTD to Brooks.

True statement

So should I be charged leave for those 2 days?

Yes. I know it sucks but they are right. They count from the day you outprocess to the day you show up, then subtract travel days, the remaining days are charged as leave.

Welcome to AD.

Edit: Because it was a TDY enroute they should not give you extra days like that, the travel days should mach the RNTD. If it was a straight PCS they count from the day you final out to the day you drive through the gate. Since, MFS is a TDY, they do not let you get there early. If you do it's leave.

Yes, I know that would have been usefull information 26 days ago, but that is how we learn in the AF.

Edited May 26, 2008 by Nole_96

[BADFNZ]

I understand the reasoning somewhat, but then why was I not charged leave for the 3 days early I showed up at XL? My RNLTD was 12 May for XL, but MFS was completed on 8 May. I get one travel day from Brooks to XL so if you use their logic, I should be charged 3 days for that too.

For those offering your days, paypal them to me. I know 2 days means nothing when you have 60, but when you have 8 and a year casual until UPT, it makes a difference.

[CHS17]

I understand the reasoning somewhat, but then why was I not charged leave for the 3 days early I showed up at XL? My RNLTD was 12 May for XL, but MFS was completed on 8 May. I get one travel day from Brooks to XL so if you use their logic, I should be charged 3 days for that too.

No. If you would have shown up on 12 May, they would have charged you 3 days leave. For a PCS, a RNLTD is just that: Report No Later Than Date. When you show up at your new duty location, your travel ends. You have 'Reported.' If you would have exceeded that one travel day, you would have been charged leave.

Lesson to be learned from all this, including TDY's enroute. Take the day you want/need to show up and count backwards. Then tell the losing base that's the day you want to leave. Even if it's a weekend, that's the day you are leaving. Now if you say you are leaving on a Sunday and you leave the Friday prior, you are getting into a gray area of duty status you don't want to be in, especially if something bad happens.

[HerkDerka]

I understand the reasoning somewhat, but then why was I not charged leave for the 3 days early I showed up at XL?

My guess is you inprocessed when you showed up three days early. All they care about is the date you left your last duty station, the date you arrived at your new duty station, and how many travel days you were authorized in between. If you are authorized two days of travel and you don't check in within two days, then everything after that point is charged as leave. Your RNLTD only means you have to be checked in by that date.

HD