Lifestyle of Helicopter Pilots

[Guest Birdie]

This thread isn't dead yet

I have a few questions... (and yes I did multiple searches) regarding Army Warrant to Air Force RW.

I'm not even in the Army yet so I know certain details about the process will change by the time I get there (if), so I'll save those questions to revive this thread again in another six years. So I go into the Army, do my 7ish years, and now I'm CWx and want to go over to the blue.

1. If I'm a CWx do I go to an O-y with an equivalent salary? Or is the pay higher/lower?

2. Will those seven years in the Army mean that I can retire in another 13 or does the 20 start over after the transfer?

Hate to seem completely money-oriented but I want the full story before I sign any dotted line, and pretty much every other question I could think of has been answered before thanks to Rotorhead and the rest of you guys.

[Guest rotorhead]

1. If I'm a CWx do I go to an O-y with an equivalent salary? Or is the pay higher/lower?

2. Will those seven years in the Army mean that I can retire in another 13 or does the 20 start over after the transfer?

You will leave the USA one day as a W2 (etc.), then you have to go to USAF OTS (get the slot, etc.) then you become a USAF 2Lt. Your USA time counts with your USAF time as you sum to 20 years active.

[alwyn2d]

1) Your pay may decrease somewhat from CW2 to 2Lt depending on the regs.

2) All your federal military time counts towards retirement.

Three other points that must be mentioned. (all regs subject to change)

1) As an aviation Army Warrant Officer you MUST be AF commissioned by your 35th birthday as a 2nd Lt. Your Army Warrant Officer commission does not count. AF does not recognize the Army's Warrant Officer commission since the AF does not have Warrant Officers in their ranks. You can obtain an AF commission by attending OTS or thru ROTC.

2) You must have a 4 yr degree without exception since 1962.

3) If accepted into the AF as a LT, you'll have the option of attending fixed wing flight training with an additional 10 yr commitment as well. Need not attend flight school if you only want to fly helos. Flying a F-22A at super cruise is almost as good as flying low level in a helo or hovering.

The route you're mentioning has been done by 100s of ex Army aviation warrants. AF isn't a bad way to go. Aim higher.

[Guest jacob]

Hello,

I am a prior enlisted 2lt with experience on the KC-10 as a boom operator. I am currently on casual at Vance AFB. I am interested in Helicopters however I keep getting the “stink eye” when I express this interest to others. I am very open to going any track at this moment simply for the fact that I have no experience flying in anything but the 10. I was just wondering if an actual helicopter pilot could PM me some info regarding the helicopter path.

Besides Iraq and Afghanistan, where do HH-60, CV-22, and MH-53 crews go TDY to and how often?

Also what kind of commercial career can a retired USAF helicopter pilot expect to find?

Thanks

Edited January 23, 2008 by jacob

[alwyn2d]

Jacob

One point I would like to clarify. The HH-53 school house closed in the spring of '07. Helo assignments out of Ft Rucker are restricted to the HH-60, HH-1H and now the CV-22. First assignment instructor pilot (FAIP) assignments at Ft Rucker are a possibility in the UH-1 and the TH-1H in the future.

[stract]

I was just wondering if an actual helicopter pilot could PM me some info regarding the helicopter path.

Besides Iraq and Afghanistan, where do HH-60, CV-22, and MH-53 crews go TDY to and how often?

Path: UPT --> SUPT-H (Rucker) flying the UH-1H or TH-1 when it comes online --> Schoolhouse (Kirtland) --> Unit

TDY: for 60s, I know my unit goes down to Hurbie and up to Pope every once in a while, various Red Flags, etc.... I'm pretty sure DM goes to San Diego for water work and shipboard ops, Red Flags, etc. Not sure where Nellis goes. Have no idea about the overseas units and their TDYs.

Currently in 60s deployments are 4 on, 4 off, repeat. Sometimes you get lucky with a 3 on, 5 off... due to the extra taskings in both theaters right now. We also have this thing called GRF (global response force) where any one unit at any given time is on the hook to go anywhere in the world on XX (short) notice. I got to go to Pakistan in 06 for two weeks on this sort of response.

[MD]

Thread Revival, after UTFSF.

Just got selected for HH-60s with the Reserves as a traditional. After 12 years of fixed wing, I'll be making the changeover to helos. Additionally, I get to get the heck out of the MQ-1, finally; transferring from the ANG to the AFRES. As this will be my 4th FTU I've attended in my combined AD/ARC career (A-10/F-117/MQ-1), I've got a few questions for those in the know. Normally, I'm fairly familiar with how FTUs work for most airframes, but this is kind of a unique situation: Regards Rucker, there's still an unanswered question with my training shop guy about what and how a fixed-wing to rotary-wing guy will train. Thought it'd be with the 23rd in the H-1, but word is coming back that RWQC for a fixed-wing guy is actually with the Army side of Rucker in the TH-67, and is 89 training days. I hadn't heard the AF training with the Army...as I thought ALL the AF guys went with the 23rd there, but what's the true deal?

After completing the RWQC, is one then able to mil-comp a Comm-Rotorcraft, Helicopter and Instrument-Helicopter to their existing FAA ATP/Instrument ticket, or does one have to complete their specific FTU first? I ask, because the training I get from the AF will have a direct effect on also crossing over from fixed-wing to rotary-wing permanently in my civil employment with CBP.

Having already completed water survival as a fixed-wing guy, will I be sent to somewhere to get the helo-dunker portion, or do I have to repeat SV-86(?) at P-Cola? If only the dunker, will that be at P-Cola, or at other places with dunkers (Miramar, Fairchild, etc)?

Gonna be interesting, going from being a former SANDY to now the JOLLYs I used to cover.....it's a very unique opportunity; just as unique as checking out of the roach motel of the UAV world. I've got a few Qs about the H-60 FTU which I'll post later due to time purposes.

Thanks in advance for helpful info.

[SCRIMP]

We just had a 135 dude go through...you still go through the 23d. You still fly the Huey. Life is still good. As far as a RWQ guy I am not sure about your civi tickets...I know we get both a inst and comm helo/fixed tickets. Hope this helps...PM me with any more questions.

There is a Helo Dunker here at Rucker that you will most likely go through if you need to redo it.

Edited November 10, 2008 by Redneck

[Anon Ymous]

The contact (Qual) portion of the RW transition syllabus is no different than the UPT syllabus (as of 1.5 years ago anyway). The mission portion is only 3 or 4 rides less. I can't imagine you're not going to get the Rotary wing licenses. There is a local FAA licensing dude in Enterprise that would know the answer for sure. As soon as you get to Rucker ask the registrar or any of the LSI guys about getting the FAA license. I can't remember his name but one of the LSI guys was the examiner to take the written tests.

What unit are you going to? There are many guys in the reserve units that were prior stuck wing that would know.

Enjoy the Huey and welcome to the Helo side. It's a damn good time.

[MD]

We just had a 135 dude go through...you still go through the 23d. You still fly the Huey. Life is still good. As far as a RWQ guy I am not sure about your civi tickets...I know we get both a inst and comm helo/fixed tickets. Hope this helps...PM me with any more questions.

There is a Helo Dunker here at Rucker that you will most likely go through if you need to redo it.

Good to know, thanks for the info. At least the dunker and training will be "one stop shopping", without having to go all over CONUS.

The contact (Qual) portion of the RW transition syllabus is no different than the UPT syllabus (as of 1.5 years ago anyway). The mission portion is only 3 or 4 rides less. I can't imagine you're not going to get the Rotary wing licenses. There is a local FAA licensing dude in Enterprise that would know the answer for sure. As soon as you get to Rucker ask the registrar or any of the LSI guys about getting the FAA license. I can't remember his name but one of the LSI guys was the examiner to take the written tests.

What unit are you going to? There are many guys in the reserve units that were prior stuck wing that would know.

Enjoy the Huey and welcome to the Helo side. It's a damn good time.

I'll have to do that regards the FAA certs, just would like to get them soon after RQ (or whenever eligible) in order to get that out of the way for the civvie side. Going to the 305th in Tucson. Am from Tucson, went AD, PALACE CHASEd to the AZANG to the MQ-1, then got on with the 305th. My civi job is just down the road and a good number of 305th guys work there too, so it's convenient in that respect.

Apprecite the info gents.

[Guest 60DriverPete]

Good to know, thanks for the info. At least the dunker and training will be "one stop shopping", without having to go all over CONUS.

I'll have to do that regards the FAA certs, just would like to get them soon after RQ (or whenever eligible) in order to get that out of the way for the civvie side. Going to the 305th in Tucson. Am from Tucson, went AD, PALACE CHASEd to the AZANG to the MQ-1, then got on with the 305th. My civi job is just down the road and a good number of 305th guys work there too, so it's convenient in that respect.

Apprecite the info gents.

Prior Air Guard here But now I fly for the 60's for the Army Guard. You can absolutely mil-comp for your commercial/instrument rotorcraft rating, most guys I went with did it at a place called the Hangar in Daleville. It's a small world I used to be in the AZANG at the 162nd then I moved to Nevada and decided I didn't want to fly C-130's so I went ARMY Guard. The fact that your going to Tucson is good news to me because I didn't realize that the Pavehawks at DM were still Reserve, I thought those guys went to Florida and they put an Active Duty unit's Hawks there. An option for me, i'd like to get back over to big blue some day and fly Hawks for them. Have fun, helicopters are alot of fun to fly. You take off squawk 1200 and come back 2.0 later, all on your own with your crew, treetop with some good challenging flying.

Pete

Edited November 10, 2008 by 60DriverPete

[Guest Brewdog]

I know there aren't a lot of Army folks lurking but are there any recent WOFT folks that can tell me how common age waivers are these days? If you know the max ages you've seen lately through training that would be great to know also, thanks.

[Guest 60DriverPete]

I know there aren't a lot of Army folks lurking but are there any recent WOFT folks that can tell me how common age waivers are these days? If you know the max ages you've seen lately through training that would be great to know also, thanks.

When I went through the course a few years back there was more than a few guys with age waivers. One in particullar was 37ish when we started, keep in mind he grew up in the Unit that sent him and had alot of people pull strings for him. Keep trying, you dont know unless you try. Army is short Aviators I know they still grant age waivers especially if your well quallified otherwise.

[CD512]

When I went through the course a few years back there was more than a few guys with age waivers. One in particullar was 37ish when we started, keep in mind he grew up in the Unit that sent him and had alot of people pull strings for him. Keep trying, you dont know unless you try. Army is short Aviators I know they still grant age waivers especially if your well quallified otherwise.

I am currently at Rucker about to start the -64 course. I am commissioned officer, so I had to get a waiver to attend OCS (I was 30 @ the time). However, to attend flight school the max age is 32 and is waiverable. I am not sure what the max waiverable age is, but they seem to be pretty easy to come by.

[MD]

Prior Air Guard here But now I fly for the 60's for the Army Guard. You can absolutely mil-comp for your commercial/instrument rotorcraft rating, most guys I went with did it at a place called the Hangar in Daleville. It's a small world I used to be in the AZANG at the 162nd then I moved to Nevada and decided I didn't want to fly C-130's so I went ARMY Guard. The fact that your going to Tucson is good news to me because I didn't realize that the Pavehawks at DM were still Reserve, I thought those guys went to Florida and they put an Active Duty unit's Hawks there. An option for me, i'd like to get back over to big blue some day and fly Hawks for them. Have fun, helicopters are alot of fun to fly. You take off squawk 1200 and come back 2.0 later, all on your own with your crew, treetop with some good challenging flying.

Pete

What they did at DM was add the AD Rescue Group with an HC-130 unit, an HH-60 unit, and a PJ unit (79th, 55th, and 48th, respectively); reporting to Moody IIRC (someone correct me if I'm wrong). The 305th is still here, with an AFRES PJ unit (306th) also, and reporting through their group to Patrick.

Also, if I'm not mistaken I believe the 48th was the H-60 unit at Holloman in the '90s when I went there.

[Guest CAVEMAN]

Does anyone have the current listing for Reserve and Guard helo units?

I think I have seen one for AD on here.

[Guest JorryFright21]

It's been a while since I went through, but it sounds like things have changed a little. We all went through Fairchild for the dunker before. We knew there was one at Rucker, but couldn't use it, except of course by the exception.

As far as the civil tickets goes. You should be able to get them after finishing the RWQ at Rucker, not the FTU at Kirtland.

Never heard of anyone, since they went all blue anyway, going through any army training.

EDIT: I could have sworn that the 305th just got accepted to move up to Fairchild. Anyone here anything similar?

[MD]

EDIT: I could have sworn that the 305th just got accepted to move up to Fairchild. Anyone here anything similar?

Last I heard, that was still rumor.....unless it's happened in the last month and its been kept close-hold. But the rumor is they were supposed to move to Fairchild to replace the 36th.

[busdriver]

Wow, MD i need to be good friends with you if that happens.

[MD]

Wow, MD i need to be good friends with you if that happens.

Sounds cool. PM me if you have any questions I could answer...at the least I could direct you to someone that could. Am always willing to help bro's out; I was helped out at times in my career, and you always pass along that torch IMO.

[stract]

Does anyone have the current listing for Reserve and Guard helo units?

I think I have seen one for AD on here.

the stickied thread at the top, what airframe/what base. I posted the info up there a while back.

Haven't heard the 305th to Fairchild rumor, but I'll ask my friends in the 301st who are just down HWY 1 from me at the moment. I've also got a few friends in the 305th; I'll see if any of them know more.

Have fun at Mother Rucker, MD! Flying the Huey is a blast. The Hangar (out the Daleville gate) is where to take the Mil Comp. If that old FAA dude is still alive, he'll hook you up with the needed stuff to get the RW add-on for Commercial and Instrument.

KIKR is also a good time, IMHO. It's an FTU just like all FTUs (AETC gayness), but you get to spend 6 months in ABQ.

And yes, the 48th was at Holloman. Those aircraft migrated to Moody back when the unit closed.

[Hercster]

Hmmm...interesting. I haven't heard that rumor. I'll have to ask the guys back at the 36th if that's true.

[HeloDude]

Last I heard, that was still rumor.....unless it's happened in the last month and its been kept close-hold. But the rumor is they were supposed to move to Fairchild to replace the 36th.

Hmmm, I have to admit, I haven't heard that one yet...and you could say I know the 36th pretty damn well. I've been deployed for over 6 months now, but I'll write my guys at the unit and ask them if they've heard of anything. You've got to love rumors.

On a much more kick ass note...good on ya MD for becoming one of the red headed step children of the Air Force! I should try and find that picture of that dragonfly (or whatever insect) that's hovering while mating...basically combining the two greatest things ever--hovering and sex.

[MD]

the stickied thread at the top, what airframe/what base. I posted the info up there a while back.

Haven't heard the 305th to Fairchild rumor, but I'll ask my friends in the 301st who are just down HWY 1 from me at the moment. I've also got a few friends in the 305th; I'll see if any of them know more.

Have fun at Mother Rucker, MD! Flying the Huey is a blast. The Hangar (out the Daleville gate) is where to take the Mil Comp. If that old FAA dude is still alive, he'll hook you up with the needed stuff to get the RW add-on for Commercial and Instrument.

KIKR is also a good time, IMHO. It's an FTU just like all FTUs (AETC gayness), but you get to spend 6 months in ABQ.

And yes, the 48th was at Holloman. Those aircraft migrated to Moody back when the unit closed.

Hmmm, I have to admit, I haven't heard that one yet...and you could say I know the 36th pretty damn well. I've been deployed for over 6 months now, but I'll write my guys at the unit and ask them if they've heard of anything. You've got to love rumors.

On a much more kick ass note...good on ya MD for becoming one of the red headed step children of the Air Force! I should try and find that picture of that dragonfly (or whatever insect) that's hovering while mating...basically combining the two greatest things ever--hovering and sex.

I'll have to definitely look the guy up for the FAA certs, and am looking forward to Rucker. Starting the process of transferring from the Guard to the Reserve. Not looking forward to having anything to do with ATC again, but that comes with the territory, though I do love ABQ.....was one of the places to get away to from Holloman during my time there and when I didn't feel like driving all the way home to TUS.

More tidbits on the move rumor. Still don't know if it's approved yet, but if it were to happen, it'd be something to happen in the next few years. Idea is, apparently, to replace the UH-1s at Fairchild by moving the 305th up there, however opening up a Reserve Associate unit down at DM to fly with the AD H-60s here of the 55th. At least that's all I know of the proposal, the progress of it....I'm not too sure of yet.

Yeah, am big time looking forward to closing out my logbook fixed-wing wise, for the most part, and beginning it rotary-wing. As a sidenote, as much as I hate the B.S. of what I've come to know as the "Church of the Air Force" (courtesy to John Halliday's "Flying Through Midnight", for the term), I'm very much into many of the old-school traditions of the AF, most of which have fallen by the wayside these days. While deployed down to the Kun one Friday, I'm at the club which is bristling wth the usual suspects of the 8th wing. In come a couple of ROKAF guys that were with a couple of AF types, the patches, the method of outside-collar dogtag wear, etc, giving them away as SAR helo dudes. They approach the bar and order drinks....which they then begin to pay for. Wtf? Why are Jolly crews paying for their own alchohol? At a fighter wing, no less?? At the Wolfpack, no less??? Olds and James should be rolling in their graves right about now! Yet, no one seems to notice. Of course, this foul deserves a healthy ring of the bell, to when announced as to why...I get looks of puzzlement, even from a few O-6s (and some of my own O-5s......ex- F-4 and F-111 guys, no less). YGBSM. Are we that far out of touch with our own heritage? This crap would've never passed muster at places like NKP, Phu Cat, Zweibrucken, or Upper Heyford......at least I'd like to think that. Especially since a few years later, the same ROK unit will fish an 8th pilot out of the Yellow Sea. Realizing that yet another tradition has been replaced by CBTs, reflective belts, SARC briefings, etc, etc; I pay the tab for the crew and myself, slap down another round, and after some interesting conversation, retire back to the Q room, wondering what traditions there actually left that haven't been deemed "socially unacceptable" or "non-MEO compliant".

[Guest Hueypilot812]

There are times I wish I could go jump back in a Huey. I had plenty of good times flying those old UH-1H/V aircraft with the LAARNG. I have briefly toyed with the idea of going back to the ARNG, but I honestly think that I'm going to clock my 20 years and retire. Maybe some day in the future I'll be able to put daylight under the skids again, but probably not in a military helicopter. As for Rucker, I've been meaning to pass back through there again one day. I'm sure the next time I take a vacation to Florida, my family will ask why the divert through UCLA...