Lifestyle of Helicopter Pilots

[Guest ruckerstud]

Well, most Huey pilots go to Space Command, which along with Fairchild is pretty much a three year tour, give or take. If you go to Andrews, it is a 4 year controlled tour. If you go to Yokota, it is a 2 year tour. Even if they don't send everyone to Hueys, the odds are still good that half you class will get a Huey. Right now it is about one cross-flow slot per unit per year, again, give or take. Oh, and the only time you will fly an MH-53J is at Kirtland, operationally, they have moved on the MH-53M. Not a big difference, just didn't want you sounding like you didn't know

[busdriver]

Don't discount the 60, while I'll admit most of the time our mission is sitting alert, when a mission does come down it's pretty damn cool.

[Guest Flight]

Originally posted by busdriver:

Don't discount the 60, while I'll admit most of the time our mission is sitting alert, when a mission does come down it's pretty damn cool.

How much do you guy's fly in a month?

[busdriver]

Flight time comes and goes, when I first joined my unit, co pilots were getting the bare minimum of flight time. I was lucky to get one flight a month. This past summer a new co in my squad got upset that he was only getting two flights a week, after a good deal TDY that gave him several hundred hours. That being said, you can probably expect about 200 hours a year. Generally, it takes about two years to upgrade to aircraft commander.

[Toasty]

How often are -60's being dropped at Rucker?

[busdriver]

We haven't actually made the switch to ACC yet, but I doubt it'll change things too much as far as homestation.

[Wildo67]

I am at Rucker right now, I just finished contact phase. The drops lately seem to have been similar for at least the last 5 months. For a class of 6 the drop will be (3 hueys, 2 60s, and 1 53). The last class had three people and the drop was 1 huey, 1 60, and 1 53. The rumor on the CV-22's from here is that they will start dropping in 08.

That is all from me guys, off to bed, waking up at 3AM for some ever so sweet instrument simage.

PEACE!!

[HeloDude]

Not too sure when/what you're referring to bud. I went through when it was still half Army/Air Force and we never got to do anything like NOE.

Maybe the old school Air Force rotor guys got to do it back when they did all their time at Rucker vs flying half of UPT in the Tweet.

I wonder how the standards are with the contract IP's now that it's under an Air Force syllabus. I remember that no matter how bad me or the guys in my class flew, they would never hook you. Now flying with the Air Force IP's...that was another story.

[ 13. March 2006, 23:33: Message edited by: HeloDude ]

[Guest waxgoblin]

Time to resurrect my ol helo thread. I am about to graduate high school and I will be in AFROTC in the fall at U Illinois. I would like to fly helos, but I am not sure if I want to go the Army Warrant Officer route after college or AFROTC to UPT. What seems to be the major benefit of WO is that they "are always flying." One WO told me they fly about 250 hours a year... how does this compare to the Air Force?

Also, as far as getting rucker out of UPT goes, it seems like theres usually 1 rucker slot allocated to each class. If I show up wanting helos, do better than anybody else that wants helos, how likely is it that I can get a helo? or are there many cases where despite somebody wanting helo, they just dont have any helos for that class?

Also, by the time I am old enough for UPT, they should be dropping the osprey. How many of these do you think will be dropped per rucker class, and do you think they will be in high demand (top 3 people going osprey) or low demand (you got osprey? ouch)? I would kinda like to avoid them until they prove themselves but they look awesome to fly.

thanks

[Guest sweetpeteUH-60]

WAX

I was an Air Force F-16 crew chief for 9 years and currently in the ARMY learning to beat my way through the air. I'm a Warrant and I love it. The difference between the Army and Air Force is night and day. Now I never flew in the Air Force but I have experience there and can tell you there are a lot of differences. In the Air Force Helo Pilots are unfairly classified as sub-par or lesser aviators especially by single seaters (there are exceptions). In the ARMY the Aviation community is 95% Warrants who are very tightly knit and generaly held in high regards or at least envied by the real ARMY. The other big difference I can tell is the mission you will fly. If you go Blue you will more than likely fly SPEC OPS in 53's or 60's and might fly VIP/missle in Hueys (AF Helo guys correct me if i'm wrong). If you go Green, SPEC OPS guys fly for the 160th and they are all seasoned aviators with AT LEAST 4 or 5 years under their belts, these slots are competitive. However out of flight school in the ARMY you have a lot of choices. UH-60/AH-64A/AH-64D/OH-58D/CH-47, attack, scout, medevac, trash hauling you name it the mission dictates the aircraft. What mission do you want to fly, then what aircraft, then what service will let you do it the way you want. The Air Force and Army have both been good to me and I can tell you some of the pro's and con's of both.

Pete

[Guest SuperStallionIP]

Wax Doggy-dog,

I will go out on a limb here and say average of 300-400 hours annually give or take, depending on deployments as well as quals & designations held. The more you are deployed (as a pilot) the more you will fly. That is straight across the board for any type/model/series in any service. Specifically for the Air Force...Pavesooner, Rotorhead, Jorry Fright, Heloguy, helodude, etc. could all tell you an accurate figure.

[ 03. June 2006, 14:32: Message edited by: BigIron ]

[Guest rotorhead]

I predict you see HH-60G pilots getting all the flying they can handle....

55 SOS closed...half those pilots went out of the 60 family. Worldwide manning did not improve despite the closed unit. Then the 55 RQS opened. WW manning got worse. Then the Osprey needed folks, and took several from the 60. WW manning got worse. Now they need lots of IPs to train foreign pilots. FID will expand in coming months. WW manning will get worse. When the 105+/- aircraft helo CSAR force becomes a 141+/- aircraft helo CSAR force, WW manning will get much worse. Want flying time? It will be there.

[Guest ruckerstud]

Wax,

I can't speak to the ACC/AFSOC side of the house. But for the AMC/AFSPC side of thing, figure 400-500 hrs your first year as a co-pilot (you be a mission pilot who has been admisitratively down graded). For a first tour, figure on about 1100-1500 hrs in 3 years. That is a bunch of hours. You will fly pretty much every day, you will twice a lot of days. Combine that number of hours with the fact that all the flight commanders in a space unit are first assignment guys and it makes for some long days.

[Guest hubclasstnick]

great thread! wax, i'm also looking to track helos out of UPT; good questions, i'd been looking for a lot of the info that was posted - one quick question, are all USAF helo candidates sent down to Mother Rucker after UPT, or just a few select flyers?

[Guest ruckerstud]

If you track helos out of T-6s, you will be going to Rucker, that is the way it works for everyone

[Guest stewartfish]

Hey all. I'm just trying to get a feel for what the next few years of my life will be like. I was selected last fall to fly H-60's in the Guard. My package was just approved by NGB, and I should be getting an AMS date soon (I'm guessing I'll be going to the October class).

I'm wondering what the flow will be like after that. My recruiter told me to expect to be going to the next availible UPT class after I finish AMS. Does anybody know when that is for Helo's?

In general, I'm trying to get a feel for what my schedual will be like once I finish AMS. Anyone have any idea what my wait time will be between AMS and UPT or what I'll be doing between the two schools (besides going to Brooks)? My commander said something about going on active duty when I start AMS, and staying on active all through training. I've never heard of this before, is this true (or possible)? Or will it be the case that I'll be back to playing the waiting game for a while once I finish AMS?

I've got a lot going on in my civilian life right now, so I really want to get a feel for what I'm going to be doing in the near future. Thanks to anybody that can help me figure that out.

[Guest ruckerstud]

Based on what I saw from the folks I knew, two from the 106th, one from California. You will go to AMS, I have no idea how long that takes. You the may or may not go to ASBC for 6 weeks. You will then do some form of IFS, figure on a month for that. Then off to pilot training at one of the three UPT bases for roughly 8 months (with possible casual time thrown in). Then a 3 to 6 week break in training to PCS to Ft Rucker with a 3 day TDY to Fairchild for dunker. Training at Rucker is 6 months. Then another break in training, length depends on when the next class starts at Kirtland. There should be a 3 week TDY enroute to Kirtland for SERE. Roughly 6 more months at Kirtland depending on a number of factors. All in all, figure on at something like 28 months from the word go until you go back to your unit. What you do and where you go on casual is men's freestyle. You might be as the snacko at your unit, you might be making copies at your UPT base

[Guest hoke82]

ruckerstud is right on. Fortunately for you the 60 guys are getting out of Rucker quick after graduation, and the Gaurd guys go to Kirtland even quicker. It has been about a month or two for the last few guys at Rucker. Most of the gaurd guys here did SERE before starting UPT.

[rescue]

Talk to the folks in your unit...especially the ones that have recently gotten back from Kirtland. PM me if nobody will help you from your unit.

Unlike what the other posts said, I had a week between my graduation from Laughlin and when my Rucker class started. I had about 10 days between my Rucker graduation and the start at Kirtland. The dudes in my unit now that are starting UPT went to AMS and came back home before beginning UPT. The time they had to wait between AMS and UPT varied from person to person. Just be patient cause when it's all finished and you are done with your 90 days home seasoning orders, you'll be scrounging for work.

Basically, Tweets/Texans were fun but there's not much practical application in being proficient at doing barrel rolls to doing a live hoist off a mountain top 7,000 ft in the air. Just put up with stuck-wing stuff and get through it (you don't have to be the top in your class...I used to joke by saying that I had to hook rides cause if I didn't finish in the bottom of the class, they wouldn't let me fly helos). Flying the huey was a blast. So much history behind that aircraft. Your first auto will feel much more like a rollercoaster than any acro in a T-37 or T-6. Maybe by the time you get there, they'll have the TH-1H huey (glass cockpit, new engine, etc)! I had the best time at Rucker. Then you go to Kirtland...no comment from me there. Then you go home, get 90 days of home seasoning.

It's awesome flying and being in the rescue business is rewarding.

[Guest stewartfish]

Thanks guys. I had the training part pretty much mapped out for me by Base Training, what I haven't been able to get a feel for is how much time I'll have in between the different parts of training, and what I'll be doing with that time.

Rescue, you said the time your guys were home varied. Do you know about what the average time home was?

Also, I've heard something to the effect that Helo UPT slots are less frequent and therefore there can be a bit more of a wait. Anybody know anything about this?

If I do have breaks where I'll be coming home during training, will I be expected to work at the unit during those periods? Or will it be up to me to decide if I want to work at the unit during my down time? Or is it possible that there may not be any work availible at all at my unit, and I'll be on my own while I'm waiting to go to the next step in training?

During our next drill I'll ask around at the unit and see what guys have been through, but until then I won't have a chance to talk to anyone thats been through UPT recently (in the last 5 or 10 years).

[Guest Rainman A-10]

Why only 90 days of seasoning?

Fighter guys get 2 x 254 days (or used to a few months ago).

[rescue]

ren - What unit are you going to? The average time studs were home varied from a couple of weeks to almost a year. From what I was told...Yes, helo slots are fewer than fixed-wing...only about 4 each year for the guard. Once you start in the pipeline, (Phase I, I don’t think IFT or AMS count) you stay on active duty orders until you are done with everything, including your home seasoning. If it's a long break between pilot training bases, they'll keep you at that base (or PCS you to the next base) doing admin-type work. I was halfway done with Phase II before I got dates to Rucker...and halfway complete with Rucker before I got my dates for Kirtland. Basically, you'll just have to be patient.

Rainman...I don't know exactly why only 90 days. We come out of Kirtland (equiv to FTU) fully MQT. It's a 6+ month long course so they throw a lot at students. Studs start tac training (very basic) while at Rucker now (NVGs and tac form) too. So, maybe that's why only 90 days home seasoning to get LMQT (slings, day water, night water, etc.). It's hard to get/stay proficient with only 90 days. Plus, there’s only one place with a Pavehawk sim, so we can’t even practice at our home unit.

[Guest stewartfish]

Thanks, rescue, I'm getting a better idea of whats coming now. I do wish I had some way of find out the Helo UPT start dates, so I could start guessing at when I might start training. Not so much because I'm in a hurry (its taken 3.5 years to get this far, I can be patient), but it would be nice to be able to guess at when I'll be entering the "pipe" and plan the rest of my life accordingly. Like I said, I've got a lot going on in my civilian life right now, and I'm really wondering when the time will come to start winding it all down and commit my time fully to the Guard. So far I'm pretty sure I'll be going to AMS in October (I'm told the August class is full), but after that I'm in the dark. I don't know if I'll be going back to the civilian world after AMS, and if so, for how long. I do know I'll have to go to Brooks for more medical screening at some point, and I'll be skipping IFT since I've already got my private pilots licence. I'm in the 129th RQS at Moffett Field in CA, by the way. Thanks

[Guest ruckerstud]

I think you need to caveat that, the Huey is fine machine, an Air Force Huey is a war horse that has been castrated. No guns, no counter measures, no RAWH (or whatever the term is) gear, no armored seats, and the list goes on. Yes, the Air Force has more or less lost the heavy lift SOF mission to the green machine, but rescue is still our ballgame, and with the number of aircraft going up with the CSAR X, they have already started ramping up pilot production to have the manning to fill it. Plus there is the CV-22, which has a lot of potential. So, if you want to fly helicopters in the Air Force, like Big Iron side, keep pressing, just know that there is about a 50/50 shot you will have to do a tour in the Huey with all that that includes.

[Guest waxgoblin]

I'm totally fine with doing a tour in the huey. In fact, I was planning on trying to go huey for a few years, but not 20. I guess I'm just wondering if I'll be able to fly CSAR and move PJ/CCT in pave hawks or if that dream is pretty much replaced with flying hueys at a space base. The osprey looks fun, I'd fly that :D