Lifestyle of Helicopter Pilots

[Bdc866]

Hi all, first time poster. I've just started considering a possibility of a pilot career. I've been doing tons of reading to find out the process and in that time, helos caught my eye. However, searching and reading has left me kind of confused about the process. Is there a way someone can post a simplified helo pilot path? What base is Phase III at?

Edited November 1, 2007 by Bdc866

[stract]

Hi all, first time poster. I've just started considering a possibility of a pilot career. I've been doing tons of reading to find out the process and in that time, helicopters caught my eye. However, searching and reading has left me kind of confused about the process. Is there a way someone can post a simplified helicopter pilot path?

Right now I'm on my way to starting AFROTC and not familiar with most military terms...please take it easy on the acronyms. Thanks!

1. Get selected

2. Go to IFS

3. JSUPT (Make it known you want the heli slot in Phase II)

4. Heli training in Phase III

5. ??

--That's all I know as of now (or think I know)

IFS is at Pueblo. This came after my time (I did IFT at a local airport where I was casual and earned my PPL). I think you get something like 20 hrs in the DA-20, to make sure you have the aptitude for flying.

Yes, in UPT tell anyone and everyone you want a helo (not heli!) slot. But don't let that keep you from working hard to be at the top of your class. Contrary to popular belief, helos are hard to fly; if you suck at UPT and are at the bottom of your class and get the helo slot dumped on you b/c no one else wanted it, chances are that you'll wash out at Mother Rucker. However, the trend in the last 4-5 years is that the helo slots go to people who actually want them.

When I went through UPT (Pensacola/Whiting), Whiting had a 100% track record of getting helos slots for those who wanted them, and conversely you were also guaranteed NOT to get a helo if you didn't want one. Win-win situation. Not sure if that's still the case, but it was 4 years ago when I was there.

If you track helos, you'll PCS to Ft Rucker (Mother Rucker) to the 23 FTS. Geographically separated unit under the 58 SOW at Kirtland. You'll spend 6 months learning how to fly a Huey (UH-1H) with LSI contract instructors who all have upwards of 10,000 hrs in helos and some of whom flew in Vietnam and USAF IPs. About 3 weeks prior to graduation, you'll get your drop (what airframe and what base*) and then you'll graduate, get wings, and go off to Kirtland TDY enroute to learn your MWS (major weapons system).

*4 months for UH-1Ns (Andrews, Fairchild, Vandenberg, FE Warren, Malmstrom, Minot, Yokota), 6 months for HH-60Gs (Moody, Nellis, DM, Kadena, Lakenheath), and a year or so for CV-22s. The MH-53 pipeline has closed and it was a 10 month course. My understanding is that there ARE CV-22s in the drop at Rucker, but not many, and with this one, you'll actually PCS to Kirtland and find out there what base is next (Hurbie or Cannon, I guess).

[stract]

I've just discovered this site and have a few questions. I am a CW2 in the AD Army flying CH-47D. I have my Comm/Multi/Sgl FAA license with Instrument rating and a B.S. in Professional Aviation. I am 35 years old and have prior Air Force time in the AFRES. I currently have less than 10 years active duty service. Here's the questions: What are my chances of crossing over into the blue and do you have any clue about the process of doing so? I would like to remain active duty and retire in the military. Thanks for any info or advice that you might lend to an old airman that just wants to get back to where he belongs.

If you still check this thread....I happened to stop in at AFPC a couple months ago and talked to our helo assignments guy (who came from my SQ so I already knew him). At the time, he had IMMEDIATE slots available for any Warrant to go to OTS and then helos.

If anyone wants more info, please check out this site:

https://ask.afpc.randolph.af.mil/main_conte...mp;p_faqid=5118

there's contact info for the Helo functional; I'm sure he can give you more details if you're really interested.

Also, surprised no one's mentioned AMS. Academy of Military Science, somewhere in TN, with a direct commission to the Guard or Reserves, just get your degree withing 7 years of graduating. Get hired by one of the units that flies 60s (DM and Patrick for Reserves and NY, CA, and AK for Guard).

Edited April 30, 2007 by stract

[stract]

to answer some questions above that haven't really been answered...I fly HH-60s, been at Moody for 3 years. I've averaged about 270 hrs/yr as a copilot up to this point, and I'm going to Kirtland next week for AC upgrade.

I've deployed 3 times (OIF in 2005, Pakistan and OEF in 2006) and going back to OIF this fall. We're an LDHD asset (low density, high demand for those not in the know). The Moody unit is bigger than the others, so we take the lion's share of deployments, with no end in sight. The big wigs don't seem to know what to do with us; right before I tracked helos, 60s moved to AFSOC, and while I was in Pakistan we moved back to ACC. ACC seems to be treating us better than AFSOC did, even though it sounded cooler to be in Spec Ops, not that we did anything but our CSAR role...

Kadena has stepped up lately to help us out on deployments in OEF now that we have the additional tasking for MEDEVAC with the Army on top of our CSAR role. Lakenheath (formerly at Keflavik) isn't mission ready yet b/c none of their birds have the upgrades/mods (better engines, etc) and who knows how long it will take them to get all their mods complete.

There is no crossflow between 60s and 53s. You fly one or the other. 60 pilots aren't being allowed to do much of anything other than stay in our MWS and go to school, that's how hurting we are for pilots right now. Now, I guess with the CV-22 coming online, 53 dudes are being given the choice of that or 60s, and some are coming over, but that's a one-time gig. The Huey pilots are the ones filling the 365 tours to OIF and OEF (learnin' up them militaries how to fly helos), and the JPRC at the CAOC, so they are deploying and taking the pressure off of us so we can do our primary missions.

[john]

I don't know if this is the right thread or not, but...

What is the career progression like for most helo drivers. Is it unlikely, or much more competitive than the fighter or heavy world to make rank? It would seem that with the smaller community, there would be much fewer staff and command positions. Do pilots thinking career expect to be career flyers, or do pilots usually get fed up with the deployments and get out before that becomes a decision. Also, are a lot of the newest 22 guys going to make GO, just like the first guys to fly eagles and probably just like the new raptor guys probably will?

john.

[Guest Pavehawk]

Hello everyone. Currently I am in college working on my fixed wing licenses. I have my private and instrument and I'm working on my commericial now. I've decided that I would like to fly helos and not fixed wing. I was looking into joining the military. My question is this... could you clarfiy exactly how you would go about getting a helicopter spot in the Air Force?

As I was browsing through I saw that if you are in the top of the class, you can pick helo. If your at the very bottom they can dump it on you. So if you are in the middle, I guess you get whatever they need? Is there anyway that you could say "I want helo" and get it? Or would you say its "safer" to go with the Army and basically be guaranteed in a way to fly choppers and not fixed wing.

Thanks!

[HerkDerka]

Is there anyway that you could say "I want helo" and get it? Or would you say its "safer" to go with the Army and basically be guaranteed in a way to fly choppers and not fixed wing.

Yes, in a manner of speaking.

Helos are one of the four tracks available to UPT students at track select.

Not all classes get a helo drop in their track select. But if you let your flight commander know that you are interested in helos, he might make a trade with a Flt/CC from another UPT base to get a helo for you. Helos work differently from class to class. In some classes there may be three guys who want a helo and that helo may go to someone high in the class ranking. In other classes no one may want a helo and it will get dropped to the lower end of the class.

It's not overly difficult to get a helo in the AF. Just do well in UPT and make sure your Flt/CC is aware of your interest in helos. If you are deadset on flying helos, the Army is the closest you'll get to a guaranteed helo.

HD

[Guest JorryFright21]

Like HD said, if you let them know early, your Flt/CC will try to make it happen even if you aren't the best dude in your class. For some reason in UPT helo's are like a pariah and most people think it's a bad thing to get one. If you're any good, the Sq/CC and other leadership figures will attempt to change your mind, but they'll still help to make it happen. Of course that isn't always the case. Occasionally you get freaks like me and others who are deadset on getting a helo.

Your best bet, do what HD said. Work hard, be the guy that is willing to help anyone and everyone, and your Flt/CC will work to make it happen for you.

[Kuma]

Like HD said, if you let them know early, your Flt/CC will try to make it happen even if you aren't the best dude in your class. For some reason in UPT helo's are like a pariah and most people think it's a bad thing to get one. If you're any good, the Sq/CC and other leadership figures will attempt to change your mind, but they'll still help to make it happen. Of course that isn't always the case. Occasionally you get freaks like me and others who are deadset on getting a helo.

Your best bet, do what HD said. Work hard, be the guy that is willing to help anyone and everyone, and your Flt/CC will work to make it happen for you.

If you are going to work the numbers, then go Army...100% of army initial training is helos. In my day, 70% of Marine pilots went helo, about 50% Navy went helo and about 5% AF went helo. The only way to "guarantee" a helo slot is to to go army. For the other services, you are at the whim of the head honchos. Like everyone else said, your flight commander should be able to get you a helo slot if you want it, but sometimes, it is beyond his control.

You will love the aircraft that you fly. There is no doubt. If you want to trade later, then that will be available to you also. Good luck to you.

Kuma

[brabus]

Just FYI, if you decide to fly helos for the Army, it's better to go Warrant Officer than a commissioned officer if you want to fly for a career. All I've been told is Army officers are lucky to do about 3 yrs flying before practically the rest of their career is spent doing the leadership thing, with very minimal time in the cockpit.

[Guest JorryFright21]

If you are going to work the numbers, then go Army...100% of army initial training is helos. In my day, 70% of Marine pilots went helo, about 50% Navy went helo and about 5% AF went helo. The only way to "guarantee" a helo slot is to to go army. For the other services, you are at the whim of the head honchos. Like everyone else said, your flight commander should be able to get you a helo slot if you want it, but sometimes, it is beyond his control.

You will love the aircraft that you fly. There is no doubt. If you want to trade later, then that will be available to you also. Good luck to you.

Kuma

Don't go Army! Yeah, you'll get a helo for sure, but the rest of your life will go way up on the suck factor. 4 on 4 off isn't so bad compared to 15 on 12 off which is what the Army bubbas are doing. Then, if you want, go UH-1N's on the AF side and you'll barely deploy at all. I remember running into a buddy from Rucker who went Huey's a year and a half after graduating, and his sim refresher to Kirtland was is first TDY! I was already worn out by that time on the 60 side. Unless flying a helo is the only way you'll be happy, don't go Army.

[Guest troxm25]

Pavehawk...as you can see lots of opinion/ intraservice "leanings" when it comes to flying helicopters. Hindsight being 20/20, here is things I would consider if I was a college student interested in flying helos.

Ideally, I am just providing facts & personal opinions. In the end it should be a tough & educated decision!

1) What do you want to do in a helicopter, Attack, recon/convoy escort, heavy lift, CSAR/MEDEVAC, assault?

- If you want to fly attack or recon, then you are limited to the Marines or Army flying a AH-64, AH-1 or OH-58D.

- Heavy lift, the Army, Navy or Marines flying CH-47's, 46's or AF V-22 tilt rotor.

- CSAR and rescue is limited to the Air Force Pavehawks. Certain Army units retain a "Self" SAR capability, but as a contingency not a primary mission. I know the Army has dedicated MEDEVAC units globally, but I am honestly not sure about the other services.

- Assault. The Army has the most platforms dedicated to assault mission. The AF 53's and Navy HH-60's do some assault work, but the Army by far has the most assets dedicated to the mission.

2) Deployments. As a family man 3-4 month rotations are great. If I was single and looking to build NVG/combat time in a helicopter..I would be fine deploying 12-15 months. And yes, I have deployed for 12-months and multiple 2-3 month rotations.

3) Long term goals.

- If you want to do 20-years, flying may get old after a while? For me it has not, but I know plenty of guys who have flown 3000-4000 helicopter hours and are ready to "call it quits." The advantage of an Army Commissioned Officer or AF Officer is there are other options if you get tired of flying. Staff work, a professor at a military academy, etc.

- If you are a commissioned officer in the Army and want to continue to fly after 10-years (generally when you move out of the cockpit) you can pursue other options. I know guys who are now in the Coast Guard through the Direct Commission Aviator program or the Air Guard offers flying positions. Additionally, I know commissioned officers in the Army who have reverted to Warrant to stay in the cockpit.

- If you want to learn to fly, spend 6-7 years and then leave for a civilian rotary wing career, I would apply for a Warrant Officer program. A quick way to build 2000-3000 hours these days.

If you made it this far...congrats. Sorry for being long winded, hope this helps.

Edited November 30, 2007 by troxm25

[Guest Pavehawk]

Hey guys, thanks for the replies! Really helped me alot! I have been looking into flying for the Coast Guard. I think thats the perfect option for me. The only thing is that joining as a civilian, you are not guaranteed a flight slot. So I'm going to have to try my best to get that slot. I think the CG would be perfect for me because I'll be saving lives, flying a helo, and most important of all, being able to stay stateside with my family. Any of you guys know anyone who flies for the CG?

[Guest ElRoy]

Any changes in the number of helo drops with the closing of the overseas -53 squadrons? Or are they just sending more to UH-1's and -60's?

[kapilot]

If I were you I would look into the 920th reserve squadron in FL. https://www.920rqw.afrc.af.mil/ This way your in the airforce flying helos. You stated that being home close to family is important. This could be what your looking for. I believe their primary mission is combat rescue (saving lives) but I'm pretty sure they perfrom missions just like the coast guard does while based in FL. Plus you mid air refuel with C-130s. Does the CG do that?!

Edited December 16, 2007 by kapilot

[stract]

the 301st deploys, too. In fact they just got back from their 4 monther to OEF. Granted they don't do it that often like us AD units, but they DO deploy.

a good friend of mine from UPT (I went through Whiting) flies HH-65s for the CG. She was in Houston, but just recently PCSd to JAX. Let me see if I can dig up her new contact info for you (she moved while I was deployed and I've just upgraded to Vista so this might be a challenge).

Edited December 17, 2007 by stract

[Guest DDerrick51]

Depends on the personality. Coming from an ex AF enlisted guy who is now a Army O. If you want to fly the best and newest helicopters, then go Army. If you want to kill thiings, go Army. We are doing better than our other branches on aircraft. Currently in the Army we are fielding, Block III Longbows, M model 60's, F model Chinooks, ARH (although my bet is this program is going to get canned in favor or UAS hummingbirds) and LUH. The USMC does a great job for what they have but their aircraft are in hard shape. The CG gig is not bad from what I hear though. There are a lot of Army pilots that go there to fly. I think there would be a great sense of satisfaction in saving people.

[Guest jkfaust]

There is a guaranteed aviation program in the Coast Guard called Blue 21. Its got some very unusual criteria though.

[AOF_ATC]

I am also considering helicopters. One thing I was wondering was what the deployment rate was like. I assume it is different depending on the model. I'm wondering if it is harder on family life than any other airframe or AFSC. I was hoping some helo guys could answer this question.

Thanks

[AOF_ATC]

Any chance they will be bringing back UPT-H anytime soon?

[contraildash]

There is a guaranteed aviation program in the Coast Guard called Blue 21. Its got some very unusual criteria though.

Very unusual indeed. The CG was an awesome service to grow up around...old man flew '3, '52s, '65s, 60's, and then converted to '130s at his last command. I've been up in '65s more than a few times, and loved every minute. We still have a lot of friends in the service, and for those of ya that live in the SF area you've seen my uncle on TV more than a few times recently.

I'm not sure what path my AF career is going to take, but I will always have that "direct commission" to the CG in the back of my mind....I'm a CG brat! What can I say?

[usaf36031]

So what has been the trend with rotary guys and the shift to to UAVs? are THEY safe? (nobody else seems to be)

[stract]

the only RW dudes who've gone went voluntarily (the 2 I'm aware of). One was medically DNIF for his back but he wanted to keep flight pay, so he took a job with preds. I've heard he's trying to get a waiver and come back to the 60 community. The other guy did a tour in Global Hawks and now he's back at Mother Rucker as a huey IP.

Our community is undermanned, so the quick answer is no, no UAVs for us.

[Anon Ymous]

Any chance they will be bringing back UPT-H anytime soon?

Not that thigns don't change but the reasoning I was given at Rucker when I went through a year ago was this. The overall idea was to have everyone, regardless of airframe later in life, get generalized training in a fixed wing aircraft. Just so everyone has a foundation they all understand and can relate.

With regards to Helo guys going UAVs every brief I have gotten was that anything is possible. Basically we are not immune regardless of past experience.

[stract]

no, we're not immune, but we are pretty undermanned with all these additional taskings we're getting, which is causing all the huey folks to get the 365s to teach Iraqis and Afghanis how to fly helos. AFPC isn't even letting us PALACE CHASE to 60 Guard/Reserve units (there are some exceptions, I know, but for the most part people are getting turned down).