Questions on ribbons/medals

[Mambo]

Question regarding parachutist badges:

While enlisted in the Marines, I qualified at Army Airborne. AFI 36-2903 is vague about whether or not a Basic Parachutist Badge would be authorized. AFI 11-402 is referenced. It appears I qualify to have had it awarded, but I can't find something that specifically says I can wear it. (Something about not in an active jump billet?)

Anyone got some more info on this?

Additionally, would an aviator who is jump qualified typically wear their wings above a parachutist badge?

I'm not sure about your situation but I have seen some aircrew with the parachutist badge, mostly Academy guys. The aircrew wings are worn above all other awarded badges.

[Guest L Unit]

I'm not sure about your situation but I have seen some aircrew with the parachutist badge, mostly Academy guys. The aircrew wings are worn above all other awarded badges.

Thanks, I'll look more into it. I understood about the aircrew wings, as far as 'seniority,' but was wondering if anyone went through the trouble to deal with even wearing the parachutist badge.

[FlyinGrunt]

I assume you have the documentation to prove it? Then wear em. I went to Army Airborne and I had some shoes give me the same song-and-dance about 36-2903 and 11-401 (btw, they kinda contradict each other) and I just wore em. I've never had anyone question me since I commissioned.

Not to mention I think it's official since I turned in the certificate to Flight Records when I got to UPT . . .

[stract]

all aeronautical badges are required to be worn, per 36-chow my hog. Parachutist badge is an aeronautical badge. I'll let you make the logical leap...

[FlyinGrunt]

I'll post the reference when I have more time, but you should check again on that one, stract. Jump wings aren't aeronautical badges (11-401, I believe, is where that's spelled out)

[Herk Driver]

I assume you have the documentation to prove it? Then wear em. I went to Army Airborne and I had some shoes give me the same song-and-dance about 36-2903 and 11-401 (btw, they kinda contradict each other) and I just wore em. I've never had anyone question me since I commissioned.

Not to mention I think it's official since I turned in the certificate to Flight Records when I got to UPT . . .

1) As mentioned in another post, rated aircrew badges are above all others except the Buzz Lightyear badge when performing or assigned Buzzlightyear duties, then it is worn first.

2) Note in 11-402, para 7.4.7, parachutist badge isnot an aviation badge, but it doesn't matter for purposes of this discussion.

3) 11-402 Table 7.2, p. 109, Note 6; All awarded parachutists badges are permanent unless revoked. USAF recognizes jump badges of sister services (elsewhere in 11-402) FYI, to be revoked, there are specific requirements listed in 11-402 that must be met and action must be taken to take it away. It doesn't just happen.

4) I take from the Note above that since it is a permanent badge that it can be worn. Especially since it can't be taken away except for specific instances. In addition, 11-402 says that one the training is complete, the HARM will publish the AO; once published, the AO is authority to wear the badge. The AO doesn't get rescinded unless your authorization to wear the badge is removed as discussed above.

Edited May 4, 2009 by Herk Driver

[FlyinGrunt]

11-402, yeah that's it. What he said.

[stract]

sorry, I got having AOs for it mixed up with it being an aeronautical badge. My bad. What they said above.

[drewpey]

Yes. I may have misread - I thought he was asking if his prior to time could be added to his current time to total 24 months.

Boofer - if you can prove (with flight records, should be easy) that you were CMR for 24 consecutive months, you should be able to get somebody to submit you for the medal.

Thread revival!

Just curious, but will flight records show a break in CMR? Was told they didn't keep track of DNIF breaks, etc. Would this be done at the unit level or above?

[Herk Driver]

Thread revival!

Just curious, but will flight records show a break in CMR? Was told they didn't keep track of DNIF breaks, etc. Would this be done at the unit level or above?

Not sure, but somehow I doubt it. Although the 1042 putting you back on flying status usually has a block with number of days DNIF. Why? How long was the DNIF break?

Is the question related to eligibility for a Combat Readiness Medal or something else?

Edit: Spelling and to clarify

Edited June 12, 2009 by Herk Driver

[drewpey]

Not sure, but somehow I doubt it. Although the 1042 putting you back on flying status usually has a block with number of days DNIF. Why? How long was the DNIF break?

Is the question related to eligibility for a Combat Readiness Medal or something else?

Edit: Spelling and to clarify

question came up when many people came in asking for it. Looked into it and realized we have no way to verify...aside from just taking guys' word for it (could have been close for a few people)...just wondering how other folks do it. No specific case to speak about...

[Toro]

Just curious, but will flight records show a break in CMR? Was told they didn't keep track of DNIF breaks, etc. Would this be done at the unit level or above?

Your flight records won't actually display "Non CMR" but it wouldn't take too much work to figure out when that occurs. It would be a matter of looking at your 112F-MDS specific Vol 2, which will dictate how long of a break in flying (dictated by events) results in non-CMR.

[KWings06j]

For the longest time none of my ribbons were displayed on vMPF. At my last assignment though MPF apparently magically updated it and added all of them. Not a big deal considering "all of them" was GWOT, NDSM, and the training ribbon. However they also put on there that I was authorized the AF Longevity ribbon. I've only been active duty for just over 2 years. I was ROTC and was on scholarship for 4 of my 5 years in college. Reading this thread I think that's a mistake and I shouldn't have the longevity award but I wanted to check if anyone knew for sure...

[stract]

have you looked up the reg reference? I can't speak to ROTC, but those who went to the Zoo got Longevity upon graduation.

[Champ Kind]

For the longest time none of my ribbons were displayed on vMPF. At my last assignment though MPF apparently magically updated it and added all of them. Not a big deal considering "all of them" was GWOT, NDSM, and the training ribbon. However they also put on there that I was authorized the AF Longevity ribbon. I've only been active duty for just over 2 years. I was ROTC and was on scholarship for 4 of my 5 years in college. Reading this thread I think that's a mistake and I shouldn't have the longevity award but I wanted to check if anyone knew for sure...

ROTC time doesn't count.

[Guest Hueypilot812]

I wanted to double check my logic on this one...

According to the Awards and Decs AFI (36-something or other), there's a 24 month time limit on submitting awards. It basically states that for ALL medals (except the Purple Heart), the award must be submitted within 24 months of the action, act or service.

The AFCENT Decoration Guide clarifies that nebulous requirement by stating for aerial medals, it must be submitted within 24 months of the LAST act, and the last act is defined as the LAST mission flown for the period awarded.

Further, the AFCENT Decorations web page FAQ states that missions greater than 24 months old do not automatically expire, and that they must be listed in chronological order and the last mission for the award period must be within 24 months.

So...now the guys here are telling me that Air Medal packages will be denied if ANY missions are over 24 months old, even though my last mission flown was only a week ago. I had some missions from a previous deployment and combined them with those flown here. I cut and pasted the AFI and AFCENT Guide, and still got the "we're sticking to our original stance" and that my Air Medal missions won't be allowed to be counted towards an Air Medal.

Am I somehow reading the AFI and Decoration Guide wrong?

For what it's worth, the AFI clearly states the 24 month timeline applies to all medals (including AFAMs, AFCMs, etc)...so using their logic, you couldn't get a PCS medal for anything over 24 months from when you sent up the package...

Edited November 29, 2011 by Hueypilot812

[XL0901]

I wanted to double check my logic on this one...

According to the Awards and Decs AFI (36-something or other), there's a 24 month time limit on submitting awards. It basically states that for ALL medals (except the Purple Heart), the award must be submitted within 24 months of the action, act or service.

The AFCENT Decoration Guide clarifies that nebulous requirement by stating for aerial medals, it must be submitted within 24 months of the LAST act, and the last act is defined as the LAST mission flown for the period awarded.

Further, the AFCENT Decorations web page FAQ states that missions greater than 24 months old do not automatically expire, and that they must be listed in chronological order and the last mission for the award period must be within 24 months.

So...now the guys here are telling me that Air Medal packages will be denied if ANY missions are over 24 months old, even though my last mission flown was only a week ago. I had some missions from a previous deployment and combined them with those flown here. I cut and pasted the AFI and AFCENT Guide, and still got the "we're sticking to our original stance" and that my Air Medal missions won't be allowed to be counted towards an Air Medal.

Am I somehow reading the AFI and Decoration Guide wrong?

For what it's worth, the AFI clearly states the 24 month timeline applies to all medals (including AFAMs, AFCMs, etc)...so using their logic, you couldn't get a PCS medal for anything over 24 months from when you sent up the package...

Everything you said is 100% correct. Whoever "they" are is wrong. Your chain does not approve AMs...AFCENT does. We do exactly what you are trying to do all the time and it has always been approved by AFCENT. Sounds like you've got some shitty exec that doesn't want to do their job. If in doubt, get in the AFCENT dec guide or on the website and find a number for UDPU (USAFCENT Decoration Processing Unit), they can give you the official answer.

Edit: https://mydirect.sha...es/default.aspx

Left side - click on AFCENT Awds/Decs

<CAC Required>

Edited November 29, 2011 by XL0901

[Homestar]

I've noticed that the downrange CSS I submit AMs through is severely overworked and most of their job is taken up by processing AMs, so part of me thinks that the EOG just comes up with queep to make the submission of AMs so difficult so as to stop officers from submitting them (lots of guys just quit pushing them through as a direct result). Sometimes the enlisted follow suit then act surprised when they miss promotion by a fraction of a point that that last AM would have given them.

[ThreeHoler]

I've noticed that the downrange CSS I submit AMs through is severely overworked and most of their job is taken up by processing AMs, so part of me thinks that the EOG just comes up with queep to make the submission of AMs so difficult so as to stop officers from submitting them (lots of guys just quit pushing them through as a direct result). Sometimes the enlisted follow suit then act surprised when they miss promotion by a fraction of a point that that last AM would have given them.

If the crew's immediate supervision (AC, MC, etc) isn't working to push award packages through for their enlisted crew, they're doing it wrong. At least until their guys all have 25 points.

[ARAMP1]

I just separated from Air Force active duty and was perusing my DD214 and noticed my last medal is missing.  I think it could be one of two reasons...  

1)  it was the Navy and Marine Corps Commendation Medal and a medal from another service wouldn't show up on my AF records (it also wasn't in vMPF) or 2)  it was signed and presented to me the week I separated and there wasn't time to put it in my records.  (although my DD214 was available to me the same day I signed out)

Anyone have any ideas?  Both scenarios seem plausible.  

[nunya]

I had to personally send my Navy medal to the Awards guy at MPF, then it shows up on vMPF and my 214. If you didn't do that, I don't think it's going to show up.

[GKinnear]

I just separated from Air Force active duty and was perusing my DD214 and noticed my last medal is missing.  I think it could be one of two reasons...  

1)  it was the Navy and Marine Corps Commendation Medal and a medal from another service wouldn't show up on my AF records (it also wasn't in vMPF) or 2)  it was signed and presented to me the week I separated and there wasn't time to put it in my records.  (although my DD214 was available to me the same day I signed out)

Anyone have any ideas?  Both scenarios seem plausible.  

Sister Service medals will be displayed in your personnel records (SURF), provided they are "individually achieved" medals, ArComs, etc. vMPF will reflect all of the decorations.

To caveat Nunya's advice, I'd walk it over and stare down FSS and watch him enter it into your records. I've more than once had to chase down a medal or OPR/EPR for someone and it's just sitting literally on a file cabinet for weeks. Or a stack of CRMs returned for corrections that were forgotten about for 3 months for a simple Paragraph citation error. Don't trust, and verify.

[ARAMP1]

Sister Service medals will be displayed in your personnel records (vMPF, -214, etc), provided they are "individually achieved" medals, ArComs, etc.

I just checked my vMPF rack (STS) and it includes a Navy Meritorious Unit Commendation, though I was part of the unit when we earned it.  

Looks like it wasn't updated.  It's probably going to be an asspain now that I'm separated and already have a DD214.  

[GKinnear]

I misspoke. I meant SURF. vMPF reflects all decorations.

[Cap-10]

When separating/retiring, all the queep stuff (medals/opr's) are supposed to be closed out 30 days prior to ensure time to get into our records.

I have personally had success walking into AFPC down at Randolph, had corrections made to my DD-214, and walked out w th an updated DD-214 about 15 minutes later....mind blown!!