Private Pilot License (PPL) questions

[Gravedigger]

I went and picked up a new 172 out in Independence, Kansas from the factory and you have to work there for a year our two to be eligible for the flight training. The will allot like 5,000 for your private and give you very cheap rates after that. Problem is, they're firing, not hiring. Oh well.

[flynhigh]

If you want to get your PPL for cheap, get a job at CESSNA! Of course, that means you pretty much have to be an engineer. I had an internship down there in the summer of 2001 and was able to take advantage of their EMPLOYEE FLYING CLUB. You have to pay monthly dues but they are like 30 bucks a month or something stupid like that. Renting a NICE 172 cost $33/hr, talking a 1997 R model complete with Garmin GPS. Anyways, I figure I spent just over $2000 out of my pocket. THEN, Cessna decides to reimburse you for "educational expenses" when you solo, and then when you get your PPL.

Solo=$500

PPL=$1000

Of course they tax the crap out of this... so you get.

Solo~$350

PPL~$700

So all in all I figure I payed right around $1000 for my PPL. So if you're an engineer and you have time to do an internship...

GO WORK AT CESSNA!!!

[Guest vikram1278]

As of June 2004, you MUST have apprx +/- $7,000 for the complete PPL package. It probably won't matter even if you get the cheapest rate/aircraft/instructor/materials/flight school...etc. I am so confident that I feel like challenging anyone who wants to contest this figure. And it probably will not be any cheaper for all those who think that you will slide into some small run down municipal airport to get your PPL. You will rather end up paying for lodging and food as well as transportation. Again, I am not saying you will use all $7,000 BUT it is the bare minimum to get yourself in the clouds as a SAFE & COMPETENT Pilot...And for anyone who is still not convinced, check out all the major/minor flight school web sites and see the rate increases and the old rate discontinuties.

[Guest PalmettoGuy]

Hey ya'll

How important is the quality of your flight instuctor? Is paying more money worth getting a "good instructor"? Obviously you want good flight instruction, but if the AF is going to make you unlearn everything, does it not just come down to time spent in the plane? Also, are there many retired Air Force pilots that give flight instruction. That would seem like the ideal case. Any advice for the upstate area of South Carolina?

Thanks

BG

[WHAP]

Civilian avaition is different from the military world, you dont fly the same pattern ect. Also, Instructor quality has never been a factor for me, its more about whether you and your instructor get along or not. Dont shell out too much more money for a PPL based on instructors fee, it aint cosmic enough to worry about, In fact, PPL is pretty simple stuff.

[Guest mfont]

My advice would be to just go hang out at your local airport and meet all the instructors that are based there.

I got to know most of the instructors that teach at my home airport because my father keeps his airplane there. I just picked the one that I thought knew the most, had a lot of flying time, but most importantly, I got along with him. Generally, instructors aren't better than other instructors, they just use different styles of teaching that might be more appealing to some students.

[Guest LuscombePilot]

Don't think of the best instructors being the best pilots. The best instructors are good teachers. Remember also that no joe schmo can just walk out and get their CFI. It takes many hours, lots of money, and very proficient skill. I wouldn't pay anything more than 15-20 dollars an hour for instuction. Look for small airports with little flight schools. There are cheap ones out there, all it takes is some investigation. Goodluck.

[Guest jeff1234]

Ahh the age-old theories of flight instructors regarding their trade, quality, and performance. Here my .02 cents on CFI's. I know I was one for 6 years and still use it once in a while.

1.) Not all instructors are alike. Like women there are the good, the bad, and the ugly. A good or bad CFI can come from any background civilian or military. To be honest some of the best ones Iv worked with were fairly new because of the simple fact that they were not burnt out, they were genuinely interested in providing the very best instruction for their student and thus sometimes that motivation far outweighs the CFI who has 2000 hours of dual given in 100 different aircraft. Not to say an old timer hates it, no you will find guys who have been doing it since before your time who love it and are great at it.

2.) Is paying more money worth getting a good instructor? A "good" CFI is worth their weight in gold. CFI's are UNDERPAID! But most students have little money so there has to be a balance. $15 to $20 per hour is pretty darn low and unless I was getting that as tax free cash money. Id never work for that fodder (just a personal opinion) unless it’s an Aero Club. Again you don’t always get more if you pay more but if the CFI (who has a good reputation) costs more money and you have the money, then sure pay it, you may never know how much you will benefit down the line by having a good CFI.

3.) What is a good CFI? Well being on both ends of the spectrum I like to think that a good CFI is a professional who looks out for your best interest both on and off the clock. They are prepared and seem genuinely interested in your performance. The kind of person who is well rounded meaning he or she can be funny yet stern. Most of all they have to take this business of flying dead serious. Not the kind who thinks flying is like taking golf lessons. Not to say the person has to be some type of hard a$$ CFI or be so intense that they scare students away but that they know the fine balance of the student/instructor relationship. I say this because good friends make the worst students in my view from my experience. Again this does not mean they have to treat you like a dog at obedience school.

4.) A good CFI remembers we are all students, never a "know it all" whether they have 15 hours duel given or 15,000. We are always learning new things. And if The CFI is afraid to let thier student know that fact, or admit when they are wrong about something, then the CFI will loose trust and value.

Obviously some of these things you will not know until you have worked with a CFI for a little while but these are definitely a few of the things I consider when evaluating myself or another instructor. If your set on getting a CFI with Air Force background I would guess your best bet is a local Air Force base that has an Aero Club.

[ 13. June 2004, 18:34: Message edited by: jeff1234 ]

[Guest LuscombePilot]

Go find a flight school. The school where I take lessons and where my dad works for hobby only charges $15 an hour for single engine instruction. The point is, is there are good quality instructors you can find for those low rates. Flying is not rocket science, its a skill, just because you pay more money doesn't mean YOUR skill level will be better

[Guest PalmettoGuy]

Thanks ya'll,

I am in Clemson SC and the airport I am taking them from is the Oconee County Airport. I am currently taking instruction from a guy who charges $35/hr for instruction plus cost of renting the Cessna 152. The only other instructors I am aware of are from the Clemson Flying club and they run about $30/hr, but they are all pretty busy and I wouldn't be able to fly as much as I would like too. I havn't heard of anyone for $15/hr or $20/hr. Do you all know anywhere in upstate SC where there are instructors with these rates?

Thanks

BG

[Guest cbire880]

$30-$40 is about the average range I've seen for flight instruction. The school I used to work for charges $24/hr and we are way under priced. Just remember that the CFI is probably making less than you pay him. When it comes to flight instruction, jeff1234 is right, CFIs are underpaid. How would you feel making $12-15 per flight hour (i.e. you get paid for about half the time you spend working) with qualifications roughly equivalent to an associates degree?

[Guest LuscombePilot]

The thing is, is that most flight instructors are paid 15 -20 dollars an hour. The extra 10-15 dollars that makes them 30-35 dollars usually go to the flight school. Best bet is to ask around. Are there any flight instructors that don't work. Most airline pilots are flight instructors. You may be able to work something out. Also, if you find a flight school where there are independent contractors(flight instructors) those are cheaper. I know for a fact that in Ohio, where I live, I pay 15 dollars and hour for instruction, and 40 dollars an hour for a cessna 150. Trust me though, the money spent flying is well worth it. Its really fun being in the air and going different places. Don't only go to the airport to fly, go there and BS with the oldtimers aka airport bums. Make friends and it will make the whole experience awesome. You will learn more that way.

[Guest jlenker]

Palmetto --

I agree with the others here. I just finished my PPL in a PA28-161. I paid $30/hr for instruction in Vero Beach, FL. I was fortunate enough to have two instructors: my father, a CFIIAH and MEI with 30,000 hours (and a definite hard-a$$), and Scott, a relatively new CFII with 2500 hours. The reason I learned so much from both of these guys is because I get along with both of them. This might not work for you, but I found it easier to work with Scott because we were so close in age. This enabled us to relate on more levels than aviation, which in turn enabled a better aviation experience. Both my father and Scott are excellent instructors with differing styles and experience levels, but this just enhanced my training even further.

My advice is to find someone you get along with (like the others suggested), but also try to find someone relatively close in age. As for the rates, I don't know of anyone that charges $15-20 for instruction, at least not at any flight school in Florida.

[PapaJu]

Seeing as I'm going to be a poor college student next year, I'm obviously not going to have enough money to finance a PPL as well as whatever other expenses I have. Any ideas, save enlisting in the Guard and using the GI Bill?

[Guest BoxerCLC]

Going to an inexpensive school made paying for a PPL not too difficult.

[AFCS_Actuator]

Scholarships. Three different scholarships paid for all of mine. There are a lot of them out there. Just search and apply. The worst that can happen is that you aren't given any money.

[zrooster99]

Platinum Card was how I did it. Granted I just now paid it (plus a few other things) off...5 years hence.

[Guest jriggoMOANG]

When I got my PPL, I was able to work a few odd jobs here and there to get cash to pay. May not be an option for everybody, but it worked well for my situation. Good luck, best $4500(there abouts)I ever spent.

[Guest Flight]

I get finacial aid....So I use the extra money from that to fund my flying. Plus I have a somewhat successful snake selling buisness that gets me some cash about every 2-3 months.

[Guest Sven]

Offer the flight school owner to work for him in return for Flight Instruction.

Had a friend that earned quite a few hours for washing the flight schools planes.

[Gravedigger]

Originally posted by Sven:

Offer the flight school owner to work for him in return for Flight Instruction.

Had a friend that earned quite a few hours for washing the flight schools planes.

Thats what I did. I was an intern in high school, so I got free time for plane washing(you've got to dry it somehow). I also got probably 150 free flights from people who fly out of the airport since I was always hanging around. I still fly with some of these people for free time. After that ended I upgraded to washing and detailing Gulfstreams for $12/hr. + free flights. :D I paid for my instrument rating myself, so now I'm broke again.

[ 24. March 2005, 14:01: Message edited by: c17wannabe ]

[WHAP]

Yeah, i worked and got mine, but it involves saving a lot of money and a good job. The scholarship thing is awesome, i know quite a few guys who applied for some seriously random scholarships, they were only 500 or so bucks a piece, but when you apply enough, you get the money. The credit card paid for most of mine at the time i got it, but i did it in two months of flying everyday in the summer, then paid the old platinum off.

[Guest Apollo]

I got mine back in the day (98) for under $2,500.

While the rates have gone up a little, you can

still get it at my school for under $3,000

Say, 50 hours at $40 an hour for the C-150

35 hours of instruction at $15. Add in our

groundschool and some supplies, that comes out

about right.

[Born a Longhorn]

Geez, maybe flying is always that dirt cheap in Ohio, but it certainly isn't near that in most of Texas.

C-150s at my flight school were $45-50/hr, C-152s (what I used) went for $55-65, and C-172s were $70-80. Things are even more expensive in the Houston area.

And $15/hr instructors?? I have never seen one for under $30, and most are $35-40/hr.

Most of my PPL training was in a $55/hr C-152 with a $30/hr instructor, so my total cost was somewhere around $4000. This is probably below the national average.

[Guest jriggoMOANG]

I did most of my time in a Piper Warrior. It went for $90/hour in Kansas City. Prices suck up here. Instruction is about $35/hour. I was between $4500 and $5000 after all was said and done. Could have done my training in a C-172 for $95-$110/hour.