T38 or T1 ?!?!

[Sierra Hotel]

Hi.... What will lead to a better life T38's or T1's?

I’m about to select in Pensacola for T-38/T1/T44. I know it is not a for sure deal but as of right now, I’m the only AF in my class that is thinking about 38's. So If I put it down, I will probably get 38's (grades are good enough to get them too)

I want to have a family (currently married no kids), get my MBA, get some leadership exp, and fly a good platform and I’m not sure what I should choose?

Please Help....

[C17Driver]

Hi.... What will lead to a better life T38's or T1's?

Either one is only as good as you make it.

[Guest oliwoody]

Not too many people fly both, so its going to be tough to find an objective opinion on this one.

[HerkDerka]

There have been numerous topics already on heavy vs fighter lifestyle. Use the search function and take a look.

Family and an MBA isn't something you need to worry about just yet. You still need to finish UPT, survival, FTU, and MR. You'll continue to be busy for at least the next year.

Either track you go, you'll most likely be deployed quite a bit.

For your decision, research the aircraft that are possible (and likely) to get dropped to you in each track and figure out what mission and what community best suits you.

HD

[Guest PilotKD]

Honestly, if you have to ask, you probably shouldn't go 38's, but that's just my opinion. I will tell you though that you'll most likely be deployed more in heavies than fighters right now aside from J-Stars, RC-135's, and AWACS. The top 3 most deployed airframes in the heavy world according to AMC are C-130's, KC-135's and C-17's (in that order). I don't think there are many fighter pilots that are TDY 220+ days a year. So many people think fighter pilots are gone more than heavy guys, but I'm not sure that is true. They do longer deployments, but are home for much longer periods of time than heavy pilots. In the -135 right now, it's pretty much 60 days gone, 60-90 days home and when I say, "home", I'm not including the occasional 7-14 day TDY's. We do fighter/bomber movements, Med Evacs, business efforts, ONE's, counter-drug ops, all while we're "home". I was gone about 170 days in the past year in the tanker and for a line pilot, I would consider myself to have been home "a lot" this year because most guys are doing 200+. Some are near 250-275, but most of them are the single guys who want to deploy a lot.

Don't pick an airframe based on what will keep you home more because assignments aren't forever. You'll do 3-4 years somewhere and move on. There will be many opportunities to be home with the family. Do you want to kill people or carry them? Do you want to land on a 3000' dirt strip on NVG's or on 7,000'+ paved runways all the time. Pretend that you're standing out on a ramp with every airframe in the AF sitting in front of you. This could be the equivalent to car shopping. To the right, you've got a Ferrari F430 (F-16, F-15, etc..) and to the left you've got a Suburban (C-5, C-17, etc...). In the middle you've got a semi carrying gas (KC-135, KC-10). You've got the chance to get the keys to any one of them. Which one would you want to drive? Not everyone wants to fly a fighter. Of course, the majority do, but there are quite a few who go into UPT wanting to fly heavies. You don't want to look back 10 years down the road and say, "I should have went T-38's because that's what I really wanted.".

[ 11. September 2006, 01:10: Message edited by: PilotKD ]

[Guest Pan130]

You should go T-44/C-12 or your life will suck forever....

[Guest croftfam]

Pick a helo...

[B-O-double-Z]

If you have to ask...please take the T-1.

[Guest hoke82]

I fly helicopters, I like my life.

[Guest Rainman A-10]

It does not sound like the USAF is your top priority. That is not a good thing. In fact, I can't imagine myself thinking about getting my MBA or anything else halfway through pilot training. And I went to pilot training TWICE.

Now don't get all offended but you are asking the very type question that has become all too familiar. I know I am old school but I believe you should be 110% fired up to get in the game. Our nation is at war. You will likely be engaged in that war, no matter what you fly, in the very near future. You are about to become a pilot in the United States Air Force. That is a big deal. No matter what you fly you will be working your ass off for the next five years just to get really good at your job. That should be exciting and challenging enough right there. I know it was for me.

So what questions are you asking? What job should I take where I can raise a family and get an MBA. You, my young friend, are a SNAP.

As far as raising a family goes, it does not matter one bit what airplane you fly. Raising children while in the military is very challenging. Then again, I believe raising a family is challenging no matter where you are or what you do. It is hard work.

Some people believe you need to be as physically close to your children as possible. That means you need to work near your home, avoid going out of town and always be present when they are awake.

Do you believe that, too? If so, SIE from UPT and become a teacher. That way you will have the exact same schedule as your children and you will be near them every day. Teaching is an important job and you can always be proud to say you are a teacher.

If you decide to stay in pilot training...do not pick a T-38.

You will not be happy in a fighter squadron if you are always thinking about getting your MBA. It is a lot of work every day to be good at flying a fighter. You will not get to a point in your career as a fighter pilot where you don't have to work hard to maintain your skills. It won't be the flying or threat knowledge, it will be a new software tape or some new weapon or some young Capt kicking your ass in BFM or on the range or blah blah blah that will keep you working hard to be as good as you can be so you don't end up with no SA when it counts because you know that will get someone killed.

You also have to want to kill people to be a fighter pilot. You will be wearing a weapon around the sky. That weapon is meant to destroy things. You will be responsible for destroying things, which will often times mean you will have to take human life. That's not some macho bullshit, it is a fact. If you don't think that fits you need to stay away.

Do not pick helos. That environment is far too demanding, both daily and in terms of TDY rates, for you to be happy based on your current mindset. It is also the most dangerous flying in the USAF.

As for a heavy...

You will be deployed a lot if you choose to fly a heavy. You need to avoid the dangerous assignments, especially in the Tac Airlift and AFSOC worlds. I am not shitting on the heavy guys here but I believe you will have more time to study for your MBA in the AWACs, JSTARS and RJ type environments. You may have to spend time studying while deployed or on long flights but at least you will be able to study.

Whatever you decide I sure hope you can look around the room and appreciate how lucky you are and how important to your nation it is that you pay attention for the next 10.69 years to being the best pilot you can be.

[Guest jjarrell]

...you're standing out on a ramp with every airframe in the AF sitting in front of you...You've got the chance to get the keys to any one of them. Which one would you want to drive?

:D

PilotKD,

That little daydream made my impending months of casual seem not that bad. Thanks.

Jets, Jets, Jets...

[Guest THE10MAN]

Rain,

I have to say those are some of the wisest words I have ever heard/read when it comes to this age-old debate. I'm going to shamelessy steal and use that insight when, on the almost daily basis, a student asks me THE question.

10

[EvilEagle]

Rainman:

"2"

[Guest basher]

And I went to pilot training TWICE.

by: rainman

"TWICE" ?

[HerkDerka]

He didn't stutter.

HD

[Guest Rainman A-10]

Originally posted by Spur:

And I went to pilot training TWICE.

by: rainman

"TWICE" ?

Yep. I'm a slow learner.

I went to UPT-H (when they had such a thing) at Ft Rucker. For those of you too young to know what FWQ is, that's where helo pilots used to go if they were lucky enough to pick up a Helo slot out of the Zoo or ROTC central selection. Helo pilots never saw a fixed wing UPT base, back in the day.

Then, after my squadron commander forced me into a non-vol fixed wing qual slot I went to FWQ at Vance for another 11 months.

Double lucky exposure to the training environment formerly known as ATC.

Blah blah blah whatever. My point is, I never thought about anything other than getting to my ops unit and being ready to stand tall before the big bad USSR. Now there's a hot war on with real bullets flying and we have guys worried about a fvcking MBA. On 10 September the guy is asking about an MBA. YGBFSM!

WTFO? Am I losing my mind or what?

Maybe I'm a little too worked up today after watching the 9/11 videos of those planes smoking the WTC and seeing innocent people jumping out those buildings and listening to this guy squawk about how they are going to destroy us.

Tell you what, I'll let any of you guys have my sweet high paying civilian desk job and my Lexus and my 10 acre hobby farm and I'll finish pilot training and go fight in your place.

[war007afa]

Come fly gunships. That way you get to fly heavies AND blow shit up! (We also fly slicks). God I love living in the gray area!

[ 11. September 2006, 18:32: Message edited by: war007afa ]

[Sierra Hotel]

Dont get me wrong.... My priority is pilot training, getting winged, and doing what I signed up to do.

At some point you have to look at the big picture as well as try to find the community where your skill set will help get to 100% mission complete. THAT is why I posed the question about 38's or T1's...

SO DO NOT QUESTION MY RESOLVE TO STAND AND FIGHT!!!

~toper

[C17Driver]

UAV.

[Fontus]

Originally posted by C17Driver:

UAV.

"2"

You can definately get your MBA flying preds... And I'm thinking you won't be gone much either...

Fontus

[Bergman]

Originally posted by BeerMan:

My flight commander in T-38s was once "discussing" with us professionalism on the radios after a stud called "Base, Gear down, UPT Complete" over the radio. He said, "Gents if I ever hear one of you say that I will fvcking kill you.

...and if you read that and thought, "YGBSM. F_cking ate-up fighter guys", then you had better go heavies (where we can spend 15+ minutes running the dickaround checklist just trying to get everyone to check in on have quick and secure voice :D )

[ 11. September 2006, 22:03: Message edited by: Bergman ]

[HerkDerka]

Originally posted by Swingin:

-Twelve hours may actually be eight hours, with an added four hours of sitting on the couch in scheduling BSing.

Awesome statement.

HD

[Herk Driver]

Originally posted by Bergman:

...and if you read that and thought, "YGBSM. F_cking ate-up fighter guys", then you had better go heavies (where we can spend 15+ minutes running the dickaround checklist just trying to get everyone to check in on have quick and secure voice :D )

'15+ minutes'...Sad but true.

[Hacker]

Originally posted by FroggyStyle:

SO DO NOT QUESTION MY RESOLVE TO STAND AND FIGHT!!!

~toper

That's a good one. How do YOU know the strength of your resolve?

I think until you've actually maneuvered past the AAA and SAMs to the fragged target, and delivered your ordnance on the correct DMPI on time, people have all the reason in the world to question it.

I sure didn't know what I was really made of until I was staring down the barrel of 57mm in Hadjiland. The fact of the matter was I was scared sh*tless and wanted to go home to momma. That feeling was offset by professionalism, duty, patriotism, anger, whatever, and fortunately that stuff had the 50.0000001% advantage on that day.

Of course, after I bombed the sh*t out of the AAA site that had been shooting at me, I felt much better...but that is beside the point.

There's a Grand Canyon's worth of difference between "I wanna fight" when you're sitting here in the U-S-by-God-of-A and when you're actually in some sh*thole with the real chance of going back home in a bodybag.

Until then, if you wanna prove your resolve to fight, do it by having your mind in the correct spot to become a warrior. As you can gather from the responses you've seen here, that spot is not currently co-located with trying to get your MBA or have more time with your family.

[Guest Rainman A-10]

Shack.

To be clear...

You are not a weak dick because you haven't been shot at.

You are also not infallible or super human if you have been shot at.

The point is you must be constantly prepared to do your job in the face of the next piece of high speed pipe or stream of green dots intended to rejoin with your aircraft.

FWIW, talking tough doesn't mean shit. How you react after your pride and courage and bravado get b1tch slapped, hard, is what matters.

You will know fear when you're bolting to your jet on a CSAR scramble on a night where you know the weather is shit, there is no moon, you got a PIREP from the guys who just landed that the tanker tracks you MUST go to are all socked in w/imbedded T-Storms (and you have no wx radar), you know you are going to get shot at, the weather when you RTB is going to be <300-1, there's no radar or instrument approach, the "runway" is only 70 feet wide and there are no lights.

That is a b1tch slap to everything you ever thought you had stored up to "STAND AND FIGHT!!!".

Just so you know, you will feel that b1tch slap if you select the T-38 track and get a fighter. You will feel it physically.

You don't have to be scrambling on a CSAR alert either. You just have to be lucky enough to be deployed in some high intensity combat situation.

The rumbling in your tumbelly will start about the time you step out of your tent to the shower just before sunset and see the shitty weather. It will grow and you will try to act like you're not scared, just like everyone else is acting. It will become so bad you will just want to piss yourself and scream and run and hide by the time you are lifting your foot onto the ladder.

It will happen to you, I don't care how tough you think you are. It will happen.

You can't let that shit stay with you once you sit down to strap that jet onto your back. It needs to go somplace else as soon as you put your foot on the ladder, sooner if able. If you bring that fear into the cockpit you will fvck up and kill someone and/or die.

Sometimes it enters the cockpit. You'll hear a rushing sound and it suddenly feels like the heat is on max hot and you have to piss like a racehorse. You have to be able to make that go away. Immediately. It will kill you.

Unfortunately, you can't make it go away by talking tough the night before in the squadron bar or in the MPC or in the Gym or at the "don't call it the chow hall".

If you don't want to be that scared, do not select T-38s or Helos.

Acting with poise under pressure (in peacetime or combat), a daily commitment to preparation for combat and teamwork with your squadron mates are the things that really count. That is where you need to focus for the next several years.

Don't worry about your MBA right now. You'll have time for that later.