It's Almost Done!

[Gravedigger]

My 7th favorite plane ever, aka the A380, is almost complete. This is what I'll fly when the AF no longer needs me.A-380

[Guest JArcher00]

Join the club.

[Guest Swigs]

That is one big jet. (thats all I could say)

[Gravedigger]

I actually did that when I was in seventh grade and it was called the A3XX. I didn't know you were a club member too. :D

[ClearedHot]

A320 made by a French led consortium. No Thanks

You want to be in the Air Force, then fly a French made aircraft? You have a lot to learn about the world and just how far they are willing to put our companies out of business, let alone sell weapons systems to our enemies (like Iraq).

Let me suggest you try send an application to this website instead of the USAF.

https://www.defense.gouv.fr/air/

[ 11. October 2004, 21:33: Message edited by: Clearedhot ]

[Gravedigger]

If you would have looked at the pictures on that French site you would have noticed the American C-130 and KC-135. I can't help that Boeing is falling short of Airbus design on the civilian side of things. I also follow the 7E7 if that makes you happier, but you can't deny the beauty of such a plane. I also love the Commie An-225 Myria. May I also note the recent lacking by Boeing in the military world. I can forgive the 767 tanker though, since the C-17 kicks so much ass. I hate French people but this aircraft deserves respect regardless of who built it.

[ClearedHot]

After being chased around the desert by the Roland, I completely disagree. I think the plane is almost as ugly as the people and their politics.

After ten years of OSW and ONW, I support nothing the cheese eating surrender monkeys do or build.

[ 11. October 2004, 21:47: Message edited by: Clearedhot ]

[ClearedHot]

By the way, if you did a little research you might find that Airbus is doing so well because it is heavily subsidized by the French government. The government pays the subsidy not as a simple gesture to keep Airbus competitive, instead they do it to purposely hurt American industry. Do a little research and you will be sickened by the efforts France is going to in their effort damage our country, economy, and military.

[Guest JArcher00]

I guess you can kiss your airline career plan goodbye. All but 2 majors fly Airbus. Hope the AF treats you good. :eek:

[ClearedHot]

I have no intention of going to airlines, never did. 15 years and the USAF has treated me good, as well as educated me in the ways of the world.

I find it refreshing that you can profess to want to be USAF pilot while pimping the Airbus and a airline career in the same breath. Just what I am looking for in my Air Force...

[ 11. October 2004, 23:33: Message edited by: Clearedhot ]

[scoobs]

Can I ask what do you plan on doing after the AF?

[flynhigh]

Originally posted by Clearedhot:

After ten years of OSW and ONW, I support nothing the cheese eating surrender monkeys do or build.

Hey now, us Wisconsinites are cheese eaters too! And we love our

[Guest purplecaddis]

Originally posted by Clearedhot:

" A320 made by a French led consortium. No Thanks

You want to be in the Air Force, then fly a French made aircraft? You have a lot to learn about the world and just how far they are willing to put our companies out of business, let alone sell weapons systems to our enemies (like Iraq)."

Wow, I did not know that I was anti-American because I flew the A320. I am glad that you pointed that out to me. I will promptly give up my seniority number and quit my job as soon as I am deactivated. I will then turn myself into my Sq CC and let him know of my crime, oh wait he flies the A320 also, ok I will talk to my OG/CD... nope he is a Airbus Captain, I could go to my asst. Chief Pilot... oh no he flies a Falcon 50ex. That is it; I will now request that my unit be put in for the BRAC due to the fact that we collaborate with the French. ;)

I took your advice and did some research about Airbus.

In 2002 they did $5.5 billion in business with US companies. I am sure if you contacted those companies they would give back the money in the name of Patriotism. I am sure that the city of Wichita, Kansas would also be willing to shutdown the Airbus design facility and have all those engineers fired.

It is not the French that subsidize them it is the European Union that does it. Airbus is not only French owned it is has a large German ownership percentage.

I agree with you I do not like a lot of the politics of the French or their attitudes in general. Still does not mean you should rail on a guy because he likes an Airbus aircraft. The A-380 is an awesome machine.

[BFM this]

If it paid the bills (and someday it might), sure, I'd fly an airbus without complaint. It probably is a neat airplane to fly.

In the way of mopeds and...

[ClearedHot]

Originally posted by purplecaddis:

I took your advice and did some research about Airbus.

In 2002 they did $5.5 billion in business with US companies. I am sure if you contacted those companies they would give back the money in the name of Patriotism. I am sure that the city of Wichita, Kansas would also be willing to shutdown the Airbus design facility and have all those engineers fired.

When you did your research did you notice that the majority of the money Airbus made went back to Europe? Sure they created a few jobs here in the United States, they had to, they were catching so much flack, but the profit went straight to European coffers. The engineering jobs created in Kansas were offset by a loss of 10:1 in American Jobs. Highly skilled trade-craft jobs performed by the people who build aircraft are now all overseas in a Airbus factory.

Originally posted by purplecaddis:

It is not the French that subsidize them it is the European Union that does it. Airbus is not only French owned it is has a large German ownership percentage.

My mistake, I forgot about our good friends the Germans who supported us in the international community during the Iraq War. Actually the majority of the subsides are paid by the French government as they own the largest portion of Airbus. They have a stated purpose of putting American aircraft companies out of business. Maybe you think that is ok, but I don’t.

Originally posted by purplecaddis:

I agree with you I do not like a lot of the politics of the French or their attitudes in general. Still does not mean you should rail on a guy because he likes an Airbus aircraft. The A-380 is an awesome machine.

I am merely pointing out he bigger picture. The French sell to our enemies. They want to destroy our aircraft building infrastructure. They want to see our position in the world minimized. A lot of thanks for making sure they didn’t grow up speaking german. I could careless if it is an awesome machine, ultimately it led to loss of jobs here in America and more money for a country that provided arms to kill American troops.

[Guest Aces-High]

I can understand both positions. I think the airbus ships are great looking aircraft, especially from the cockpit. If I were to go to the airlines I would fly them like everyone else. In the bottom of my heart I would feel bad that I weren't flying an American plane.

On the other hand... The EU was developed after WWII to unite Europe under one banner to help lessen the chance of another WWI or WWII. However, it has in recent times gone from peace building, to pan-european economic build-up, to uniting Europe as a world economic and political power capable of dictating European interests upon world affairs. This meaning that they will often contradict U.S. interests.

In light of this they have focused on building up their collective economies in an effort to build the EU power base. Part of this economic building has resulted in heavily subsidized buisnesses such as Airbus. If Airbus had to run on the same rules as Boeing they would fold. To be sucessful Airbus is trying to put Boeing out of business (mostly I believe out of international business), or to at least reduce Boeing's world-wide market share to basically nothing. For this reason I VERY much hate the fact that domestic carriers are starting to use Airbus. However, we should all be more iritated at the U.S. government if they have not been leveling the playing field by heavily taxing Airbus imports or by demanding that a certain percentage of Airbus construction be carried out by U.S. workers. This would keep some of the money within the U.S.. The government could also require that Airbus must create manufacturing oportunities in the U.S. thereby creating business opportunities for American start-ups. Airbus must buy a certain percentage of parts from these American businesses.

From what cleared hot was saying the government may already have done this. If they have not, more anger should be reserved for U.S. foreign economic policy then for Airbus. After all, no matter how many planes Airbus makes or how much they are subsidized they will not gain unfairly over boeing if the right policies are carried out.

Unfortunately, there is not alot we can do to stop Airbus from defeating Boeing in international sales. At this point Boeing just has to supply the bigger bang for the buck and let the consumer decide.

I can tell you from being an International Studies major that things get VERY COMPLEX when you talk about foreign economic policies. Many times when things look unfair they really aren't.

ClearedHot is right, in the international marketplace of which America is a part, Boeing and Airbus are the biggest rivals on the planet and I can guarantee everyone that Airbus is trying to shut down American aircraft companies. Its up to our government to protect them.

[ 12. October 2004, 00:21: Message edited by: Aces-High ]

[Guest chaw]

That a380 looks .

[Guest purplecaddis]

Originally posted by Clearedhot:

I find it refreshing that you can profess to want to be USAF pilot while pimping the Airbus and a airline career in the same breath. Just what I am looking for in my Air Force...

Please explain to me what is wrong with "pimping" an airline career in your air force?

Aces,

You are right, Airbus does want to destroy Boeing. It is also true that Boeing wants to put Airbus out of business. It harkens back to when Japan automakers cars were crap. The Big Three got lazy, Honda and Mazda et al came in with a good product and people left their American cars.

I hope that Boeing has learned that lesson. The 7E7 could be an answer. Smaller faster airplane that can offer international travel point to point from smaller markets.

The subsidies are a tough deal for Boeing to contend with. I think the US gov't will have to do something.

My biggest problem with this whole thread is the self rightous attitude of cleared hot. :confused:

[ 12. October 2004, 08:18: Message edited by: purplecaddis ]

[flynhigh]

Originally posted by Clearedhot:

They have a stated purpose of putting American aircraft companies out of business. Maybe you think that is ok, but I don’t.

Not to be the wise guy here, but isn't Boeing the only real American company that is in competition with Airbus? I really don't foresee Airbus directly affecting any of the other American aircraft manufacturers considering most of them are general aviation or military manufacturers.

That said, I agree with the fact that our government could play a huge role in the "leveling of the playing field" with Airbus/Boeing competition.

Just my thoughts anyways.

[Guest JArcher00]

Clearedhot, I guess I get the best of both worlds being in the Guard. Well I hope you make a career out of the AF, good luck. I hope you decide to drive to the West Coast next time you need to get there. Would hate for you to be upset flying on an airline which contributes a lot to our economy flying a French aircraft. AAA is giving great discounts these days. They might cover your flat tire.

[ClearedHot]

Originally posted by purplecaddis:

Please explain to me what is wrong with "pimping" an airline career in your air force?

I have no heartburn with anyone who wants to get out and fly for the airlines. In fact, three quarters of my UPT class got out when they had the chance five years ago, (although most of them have since been furloughed). However, the first posters in this thread have not even gone to UPT yet. They have ten years after UPT to dream about flying the Airbus and an airline career. In the meantime, there are hundreds of guys and girls that want to join because they want to fly for the USAF and their country.

I hope that Boeing has learned that lesson. The 7E7 could be an answer. Smaller faster airplane that can offer international travel point to point from smaller markets.

The subsidies are a tough deal for Boeing to contend with. I think the US gov't will have to do something.

That was my point, “WE” are the US government and we can sit back and hope the someone does something or we can speak out. The average American person has no idea about the subsidies, they just want cheap airline tickets. The problem is without expensive subsides to Boeing or tariffs on Airbus products, we might see the next generation of American Air Force pilots flying the Rafael.

My biggest problem with this whole thread is the self rightous attitude of cleared hot. :confused:

Self righteous because I would like to preserve American industry? Simple solution then, ignore my posts.

[ClearedHot]

Originally posted by flynhigh:

Not to be the wise guy here, but isn't Boeing the only real American company that is in competition with Airbus? I really don't foresee Airbus directly affecting any of the other American aircraft manufacturers considering most of them are general aviation or military manufacturers.

Flying high, I don’t think you are a wise guy and that it a great point, but it actually proves my point. Ever wonder what happened to all of the other big aircraft designers? making aircraft is a brutal business and I don’t pretend to understand all of the economics that are involved, but a lot of good companies have gone under or consolidated because of the unfair competition from the EU. Bottom line, it reduces our industrial base here in the US, it exports jobs to Europe, and gives us fewer choices in the long run.

I was not trying to start a flame war, so I should apologize if anyone feels offended. My frustration comes from looking at the big picture, and fighting the weapons systems that our "Friends" the French have sold to our adversaries.

[ClearedHot]

Originally posted by RedDog:

Clearedhot, I guess I get the best of both worlds being in the Guard. Well I hope you make a career out of the AF, good luck. I hope you decide to drive to the West Coast next time you need to get there. Would hate for you to be upset flying on an airline which contributes a lot to our economy flying a French aircraft. AAA is giving great discounts these days. They might cover your flat tire.

Now who is being self righteous? Sorry that my choice of making the USAF a career offended you and you guard sensitivities. Heaven forbid we use a little patriotism.

[flynhigh]

I partially agree Clearedhot. However, our industrial base here in the US really hasn't diminished as a result of the loss of manufacturers, in reality, there is just one single major manufacturer, Boeing. You may remember in 1997 or so when Boeing and McDonnell Douglas merged? This was a result of foreign competition(i.e. Airbus). Some jobs may have been lost, but more jobs were probably saved in the long run by creating a single national "powerhouse" to compete with Airbus. Smaller manufacturers, such as McDonnell Douglas, would not have been able to compete against Airbus alone and would have went under. The FTC even launched an investigation into whether or not they should allow the merger. After agreeing that it would be best for national interests, they allowed the merger despite European rejection.

Anyways, I understand your position and respect it!

[Guest JArcher00]

Clearedhot, I hear your point of view. I respect that you stand for something such as this. I agree with wishing all U.S. planes were made by U.S. companies. I am not going to let it dictate my family well being to that extent. Lets not even get into our cars/trucks. Lets not forget about other aircraft such as the CRJ/Embraer, etc. Where do we draw the line? The questions is when will the U.S. designers come up with a viable aleternative to those builders? That is the joy of the free world, competition. We just need to step up to the plate now.