Why T-38s for B-52 (BUFF)

[Toro]

Originally posted by Hacker:

Here, exactly, is where the problem is.

UPT...DO YOUR F*CKING JOB, GODD@MN IT!

[Guest Hoser]

Originally posted by Hacker:

Here, exactly, is where the problem is.

UPT...DO YOUR F*CKING JOB, GODD@MN IT!

[Hacker]

Originally posted by Hoser:

The higher ups would be afraid that if they wash this kid out and he crys and gets his senator involved becuase he was wrongfully washed-out,

Again, I say...grow a pair...do your damn job and stop worrying about the implications of some kid you wash out who has sour grapes.

[busdriver]

Teaching a student to deal with the so called "voice activated co-pilot" isn't so bad. Dealing with shitty co-pilots is really more an aircraft commander thing. Going through an undergrad CRM environment, new pilots should have to deal with a good co, with zero ambition. So you tell him to do X, he'll do exactly that and no more. So the student doesn't have to do everything themselves, but they have to be constantly aware of their co's progress on their assigned task.

[Guest sprint]

Thread Revival,

Originally by Hoser:

Yes, the T-38 side does use the B-52/B-1 as a 'seasoning' platform for some weak swimmers that aren't quite ready for single seat, but with a little more care and feeding, will probably be strong swimmers.

Are bomber pilots allowed to crossflow back to a singleseat if they want (After Seasoning)? I just watched the American Fighter Pilot DVD and one of the studs was a B-1 guy transitioning to F-15c's. How common is this?

Sprint

[Guest scottaxelson]

I can tell you in the buff world, at least at Minot, and Im pretty sure this goes for B'dale, your options when the Alpha Bill drops for copilots is...

1) White Jet (37/38 inst.)

2) ALO

3) UAV

4) B-2

No one up here has transferred to the fighter side in the years Ive been here. I just dont think it would be much of a crossflow. Fighter guys saying "I want the buff!!!" Then again, maybe they want the cushy deployments and crew dog life.

[Guest Hoser]

Originally posted by Sprint:

Thread Revival,

Are bomber pilots allowed to crossflow back to a singleseat if they want (After Seasoning)? I just watched the American Fighter Pilot DVD and one of the studs was a B-1 guy transitioning to F-15c's. How common is this?

Normally guys are not allowed to cross flow.

The guy from American Fighter Pilot was a B-1 WSO who got picked up for UPT, then got C models.

Hoser

[Flare]

Hacker, Toro

I know where you guys are coming from, but you gotta realize that the problem is NOT UPT as a whole....but, as Hoser mentioned, a select, very small group of field graders that have command positions at the various bases. I'd bet that 99%+ of the line IPs feel the same way you do, and do their job to get rid of the bad apples. I can send a dude to a TRB 69 times, but if my OG/CC keeps sending him back and he keeps getting 87 rides, etc......then he is eventually going to be able to meet the standards of whatever checkride he is trying to pass. It's a complaint we bring up all the time, but no one wants to be that guy who ignores the precedent and fixes the system. Except follow the rules and hook the dude when he deserves it and testify at his board that he doesn't deserve to stay in the program, what else can I do?

I'm sure none of this is news to either of you (esp Toro) but more addressed to the other guys on the forum who might not know how the system works.........

[ 27. February 2006, 22:28: Message edited by: ENJJPT IP ]

[Guest Hydro130]

to the "line" IPs out there...

If you're not a FAIP, you understand the pain of dealing with problem children let loose on Big Blue.

If you are a FAIP, you're absolutely learning that quick! :D

Knowledge is good!

Cheers to the instructors (wherever you are)....

Hydro

[ 27. February 2006, 22:37: Message edited by: Hydro130 ]

[Skitzo]

Maybe other bases are different but in my nearly two years at Columbus I've only heard of 2-3 that have been actually reinstated into the program, force-shaping notwithstanding.

[ 28. February 2006, 11:56: Message edited by: ktulu34535 ]

[Guest SnakeT38]

Originally posted by Hoser:

Normally guys are not allowed to cross flow.

The guy from American Fighter Pilot was a B-1 WSO who got picked up for UPT, then got C models.

Hoser

[Guest Hoser]

Originally posted by SnakeT38:

If you are talking about Mike Love, wrong, he was

a B-1 CP, then T-38 IP, then F-15C. He was not part of the crossflow program which took T-38 trained heavy pilots with "slick" wings and put them in fighter airframes. Love was at PIT with me

and at Vance, I was there when he applied for the

F-15C and was accepted. I flew against many of the first "crossflow" applicants while at PIT.

I stand corrected. I thought he was a WSO re-tread.

Thanks for the correction.

Hoser

[Guest Walter_Sobchak]

I also went to Sheppard and am now in the BUFF. FWIW, I'm very happy in this community and will try to stay in the B-52 as long as AFPC lets me. If you spend a few years in the community and decide you'd like to fly something else you do have options, though. After two years on station in your ops squadron you'll be show up on the VML. There are T-38 IP positions available at Laughlin, Vance, and Columbus, as well as T-37/6/34 everywhere. It's also not unheard of to get T-38 chase at Edwards or Holloman, though those aren't common. Of course, there's also the B-2 which you can apply for once you have 500 hours in the jet.

I realize you're disappointed about not getting fighters, but I can only say that I requested B-52s as my top choice (then had to explain that to my Flt CC who thought I was touched in the head) and have no regrets. It's a great airplane with a great mission and a very cool community. PM me if you've got any questions about the eight-engined beast, KBAD, or KMIB.

[Guest help me solo]

Originally posted by ghost_ttu:

I am one of the ENJJPT guys that got the buff. Say what you will, I'm still fighter qual'd

I'm curious what "fighter qualed" means. Did you mean that you flew pointy nose aircraft, or that ENJPT made you a fighter pilot?

[Guest Hoser]

That's no different than UPT. If a guy gets to T-38's, he's fighter qual'd. If there are 6 dudes and only 4 fighters when it comes time for assignement's, then the other 2 are going to get a FAIP / Bomber.

Hoser

[ghost_ttu]

Not completely true. It is true that it works the same at ENJJPT and UPT, but it is possible to graduate T38's and not be fighter qual'd. I don't know what the numbers are to decide that, or if it is merely subjective, but I do know that it is possible.

[Guest pcampbell]

Further, I understood that one had to be fighter qual'd to FAIP. Any truth to that?

[Guest gtyj98]

If you graduate UPT from T-1s, does that make someone "cargo quald". Just wondering, because I have a friend who flys KC-135s and he wants to fly a cargo aircraft next. The missions are so very, very different. Conversely, I have cargo stink on me, so I think I'm good for the rest of my career, but if I want to fly KC-135s, do I need to be "gas quald"?

[Guest Demeeta652]

I've heard ASBC makes you "desk qual'd"

[Guest help me solo]

Originally posted by gtyj98:

If you graduate UPT from T-1s, does that make someone "cargo quald". Just wondering, because I have a friend who flys KC-135s and he wants to fly a cargo aircraft next. The missions are so very, very different. Conversely, I have cargo stink on me, so I think I'm good for the rest of my career, but if I want to fly KC-135s, do I need to be "gas quald"?

Wow, someone got my point - a year of UPT doesn't make you a fighter pilot, or a cargo pilot for that matter.

[Guest pcampbell]

Originally posted by help me solo:

Wow, someone got my point - a year of UPT doesn't make you a fighter pilot, or a cargo pilot for that matter.

Dude, you're missing the point. When your instructors in UPT rack and stack you, there is a cutoff for fighter qualification. This is called being fighter qual'd. Maybe it's just an ENJJPT thing, I don't know. The point of the matter is that it exists.

ghost_ttu was stating that he was selected for the Buff. He didn't get a fighter, not because he wasn't qualified, but because there weren't enough in his drop.

The theory is that if a drop was all fighters, there might be some trading going on for a bomber because a stud is not fighter qualified out of UPT.

[Guest Hoser]

Originally posted by Razorback:

The theory is that if a drop was all fighters, there might be some trading going on for a bomber because a stud is not fighter qualified out of UPT.

Again, the same thing happens at UPT. We don't have anything written that says we must say a guy is not fighter qual'd and put it in their training report, but I know there were times when we had a guy that we as IP's felt was not going to make it in the fighter world, so we traded away a fighter to another UPT base, so we could assign the guy a bomber. I guess that would make him non fighter qual'd in ENJJPT speak.

Hoser

[ 04. April 2006, 21:36: Message edited by: Hoser ]

[Ram]

Originally posted by Razorback:

Further, I understood that one had to be fighter qual'd to FAIP. Any truth to that?

True. The sheet actually says "Fighter/FAIP Qual? (Y/N)"

[HuggyU2]

When I was a FAIP (back when everyone flew the T-38, and dinosaurs roamed the earth), we'd rack-and-stack the entire class, then draw a line. If you were above the line, you were "FAR'd" (Fighter/Attack/Recce). You had to be FAR'd to be FAIP'd. Fighter/Attack/Recce/Trainer is "FART'd", but I digress.

Anyways... I know plenty of pilots that didn't do so great in UPT that really came on strong after a couple of years with Wings on their chest. I know a few fighter guys that were min-FAR'd, and kind of plateaued over the years. It became clear to me that deciding who is the best pilot based on UPT ranking is like figuring out who should be the next partner in a law firm based on their Freshman undergraduate GPA. During the 3 years I spent as T-38 PIT IP, I flew with some pilots out of heavies that had great hands (sts) and were outstanding IP's.

So, while the whole "figher qual" thing is probably alive and well, it's simply a way --- not necessarily an accurate way --- to stratify candidates for a follow on assignment. Think of it like the OPR: it's not accurate, there's got to be a better way, etc... but no one will bother changing the system.

[ 05. April 2006, 02:01: Message edited by: Huggyu2 ]