What's gonna happen to us LT's?

[Saluki]

So I got my nice Air Force Times yesterday and as mentioned before on here, 4K over commissioned Lt's and young Capts, 11FX (Pilots) are like 1160 approx over filled, yada, yada, yada. Pilots don't need to worry though since they've put so much money into us and all that stuff.However, due to this force shaping, is palace chasing a more viable option for now guys only 20 months into their 10ADSC? Due you think AFPC is more prone to let us go? Is this something I should pre-emptivly attack by "asking the questions" or just ride it out and see what happens? I'm in a little different situation than most probably are as well. I'm an A-10 TFAPer (you know, the thing were I get to go pretend I don't know what AD is and life is great! J/K....but not really :cool: ). So I'm already kind of a leg up (sts) if it was to come to that. Before any "AD rocks" kinda people roll-in on me, I have no intention of necessarily voluntering for this palace chase program....unless the AF Gods deem me expendable in a year or 2 and I'm left out to dry. "Got anything dude?" (standard flight lead question after reaming (sts) you for an hour)

[Champ Kind]

I'm just planning on making every effort to not screw up.... That should increase my chance for staying in by a pretty good margin, I would hope. If not, I might try that truck driving school I saw on TV.... Truckmasters, I think it is. I might need that.

[Guest Animal]

https://www.afpc.randolph.af.mil/retsep/shape2.htm

Click on "AF/DP MSG #7 Air Force Shaping Program Phase II Modifications". This baby is hot off the presses!

Straight from the Horse's mouth:

A. OFFICERS IN ALL AFSCs REMAIN ELIGIBLE TO APPLY FOR A PALACE CHASE TRANSFER UNDER THE FORCE SHAPING PROGRAM. APPROVAL/DISAPPROVAL WILL BE BASED ON AFSC SKILL LEVELS AND OVERALL CAREER FIELD HEALTH. EXCLUSIONS: (1) PERSONNEL WHO HAVE NOT COMPLETED INITIAL SKILLS TRAINING, (2) PERSONNEL SCHEDULED TO RETRAIN AND (3) ALL PERSONNEL WITHIN THE BSC/MC/DC/NC HEALTH CARE SPECIALTIES ARE NOT ELIGIBLE TO APPLY FOR A PALACE CHASE COMPONENT TRANSFER UNDER THE FORCE SHAPING PROGRAM (MSC REMAINS ELIGIBLE TO APPLY). APPLICATIONS OUTSIDE THE CRITERIA OF THE FORCE SHAPING PROGRAM MAY BE FORWARDED TO THE SECRETARY OF THE AIR FORCE PERSONNEL COUNCIL FOR CONSIDERATION UNDER THE REGULAR PALACE CHASE PROGRAM.

9. LIMITED ACTIVE DUTY SERVICE COMMITMENT (LADSC) WAIVERS. LADSC WAIVERS FOR ENLISTED PERSONNEL WILL NO LONGER BE CONSIDERED UNDER THIS PROGRAM. HOWEVER, THIS INITIATIVE STILL REMAINS A VIABLE OPTION FOR OFFICERS. THESE REQUESTS WILL ALLOW OFFICERS TO EITHER RETIRE OR SEPARATE PRIOR TO COMPLETING SPECIFIED ACTIVE DUTY SERVICE COMMITMENTS. ALL AFSCS ARE ELIGIBLE TO APPLY; HOWEVER, APPROVAL/DISAPPROVAL WILL BE BASED ON YEAR GROUP MANNING, HEALTH OF THE CAREER FIELD AND THE NEEDS OF THE AIR FORCE. AIRMEN MUST TAKE INTO ACCOUNT DESIRED LEAVE, PERMISSIVE TDY AND TERMINAL LEAVE, IF APPLICABLE, IN ADVANCE OF THEIR DESIRED RETIREMENT OR SEPARATION DATE. THE 120-DAY MINIMUM APPLICATION REQUIREMENT FOR OFFICERS WHO WISH TO TAKE TERMINAL LEAVE OR PERMISSIVE TDY IN CONNECTION WITH THEIR RETIREMENT IS WAIVED FOR THE DURATION OF THE FORCE SHAPING PROGRAM. OFFICERS SEPARATING UNDER THE LADSC PROGRAM ARE STILL REQUIRED TO FULFILL THEIR MILITARY SERVICE OBLIGATION IN THE INDIVIDUAL READY RESERVE (IRR).

A. WAIVERABLE ADSCS/SERVICE COMMITMENTS FOR OFFICERS. ADSC REASONS LISTED BELOW ARE FULLY WAIVERABLE UNDER THE LADSC WAIVER PROGRAM:

ADSC REASON

PCS

AFIT (PHD)

AFIT (MASTERS)

EDUCATION W/INDUSTRY

SERVICE ACADEMY

OTS

ROTC

DIRECT COMMISSION

INTERMEDIATE/SENIOR DEVELOPMENTAL EDUCATION

ACP FOR OFFICERS WITH GREATER THAN 15 YRS OF COMMISSIONED SERVICE--ON A CASE-BY-CASE BASIS

That's a brief selection. Read the document cover to cover to be sure.

That being said, it's not what you know, it is who you know. Ask early and often while you are kicking it as a TFAPer. No matter what happens...BE READY FOR ANYTHING! In case you haven't figured it out, the folks at AFPC are clinging to the stab trying to catch up. Expect the beatings to continue until morale improves.

By the way, the reason it is called "Force Shaping" and not a "Reduction in Force" or "RIF" (you can hear the old guys shuddering) is because that a "RIF" can only be authorized by congress. Congress can't stand up and say "We're gonna fire all these bastards" while there's a war on.

ANIMAL

[ 27. July 2005, 21:15: Message edited by: Animal ]

[Guest Rainman A-10]

Originally posted by Saluki:

I'm an A-10 TFAPer...So I'm already kind of a leg up (sts) if it was to come to that.

Your Guard unit is offering you a full time slot if you Palace Chase?

[Guest waxgoblin]

do you guys think force shaping will make the AF more reluctant to grant waivers for medical conditions?

[Guest Animal]

Originally posted by waxgoblin:

do you guys think force shaping will make the AF more reluctant to grant waivers for medical conditions?

My guess is: Yes

Don't give up, though. What the AF is trying to get it's arms around first is making sure that when a LT gets done with the oath of office, that everyone (the AF and the LT) knows what that LT is going to do in the AF. No more of this "I didn't want to go talk to the General at the Zoo and tell him why the flybys at football games didn't do it for me, so I'm gonna go to UPT for a couple of months and then compete for that comm job i've had my eye on."

Here's the new deal:

Want to be a comm oficer? Raise your right hand.

Want to be a pilot? Raise your right hand.

Want to be a ###? Raise your right hand.

If ### doesn't work out then we don't have room for you, and we will ask you to leave. Be ready!

ANIMAL

[FreudianSlip]

My guess is that it would depend on your airframe a bit. I don't see them saying they are going to let you skip out of a vast majority of an ADSC.

As a Herk driver I see the 'winds of change' blowing. For as much as they need the Herk community over in the sandbox, there are not enough Herks to keep us current when we're home. So what do you do?? Buy more Herks or get rid of a percentage of aircrew...how do you think the bigwigs are looking at it? I'm a bit nervous that after this BRAC thing falls into place they will skim a year here or a year there from ADSCs for those who have to PCS for those of us in the Herks community.

As for A-10s, I'm not in the know so I can't speak intelligently. I'm guessing that the whole F-35 replacing the A-10 (which is bull in my opinion) is to far away to have an influence on the this force shaping where as the C-17s and the J models (we'll see how long that lasts) rolling off the assembly line will affect the Herk community. Those of us with a year or two left might get the axe, those LTs out there will get crossflowed and yes I would keep your nose clean because any problems you have are just an excuse for The Man.

Also its not a RIF because we have exceeded our congressionally mandated numbers so its on ourself to thin the ranks, not congress.

But then again I'm a pessimist

[Saluki]

I'm an A-10 TFAPer...So I'm already kind of a leg up (sts) if it was to come to that.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Your Guard unit is offering you a full time slot if you Palace Chase?

Absolutely not Rainman and with the "leg up" comment, I'm in no way saying I'm a shoe in for a job. But what I am saying is that I would be ahead of the pack as far as "Rushing" is concerned. Since I work here daily and fly and hang out with the guys and their families, that definitely would give me an advantage over another young LT or Capt coming in off the street. And as I just hit on, I'm not comparing myself to 2,000 hour guys walking into a unit. I'm comparing myself to if there was an en-mass (sp??) of you LT's and Capt's trying to palace chase out.