ClearedHot Posted January 7, 2006 Posted January 7, 2006 Here is a bit of information for those of you who plan on making the USAF a career. A quick bit of background to place this post in context for all. At several times during a officers career you will compete to attend Professional Military Education (PME) in residence. Some of you have heard of Squadron Officer School, which is for captains, but this post is really focused on what the USAF calls Intermediate Developmental Education (IDE), usually Air Command and Staff College (ACSC), or similar programs. And Senior Developmental Education (SDE), usually Air War College (AWC), or similar programs. You will compete for IDE and SDE at your Major and LtCol promotion boards respectively. In the past persons identified by their promotion boards as “candidates” for IDE or SDE stood a good chance of going inresidence. The board always selected too many people for the available slots, so if you were a candidate you stood a 70% chance of going inresidence. You may have heard some of the older craniums on the board complain about doing SOS, ACSC, or AWC in correspondence. In order to make your next promotion you MUST complete the appropriate level of school. As an example, if you look at promotion boards over the past four years, Majors who have not completed ACSC by going in residence for a year or completing the program by correspondence, have a zero percent selection rate to .001% selection rate to LtCol, in other words, it is a pass fail block that you have to fill. I bring all of this up because in the past leadership expected you to complete SOS, IDE, and SDE by correspondence EVEN if you were selected to go in residence. It was viewed as a commitment issue I guess. In fact, most Wing/CC’s won’t give you a good “push” to compete for one of the schools in residence until you finished it by correspondence. This led to a process called “practice bleeding” where you ended up doing the program twice to suit the masters. Well things MIGHT have changed…This week AFPC published a memo from the USAF DP – (dude in charge of all personnel issues), which formally states that “selects”, or persons identified by their promotion board to go to IDE or SDE in residence. Part of this is a reflection of changes in the program. Currently, officers identified as selects have a 100 percent opportunity to attend IDE or SDE. Additionally, the policy reflects the contempt that junior officers have felt for the entire process. I HOPE it is true. In the past we were told by one CSAF that we didn’t need a masters degree to get promoted and the next CSAF reversed the policy leaving a few good officer out in the cold. Take all of this with a grain of salt, but hopefully it gives you a better idea of what to expect later in your careers. To view the policy letter from LtGen Brady go to the link below, look on the right side under the title "From the DP", and they actually gave the formal link to the policy letter the title "Practice Bleeding Policy" AFPC IDE-SDE Website Cheers CH [ 07. January 2006, 14:18: Message edited by: Clearedhot ]
Hacker Posted January 7, 2006 Posted January 7, 2006 Originally posted by Clearedhot: In the past we were told by one CSAF that we didn’t need a masters degree to get promoted and the next CSAF reversed the policy That's been the biggest bite of my career. Thanks a lot, Chief.
war007afa Posted January 7, 2006 Posted January 7, 2006 So after reading the letter the goal of the LtGen is to put a stop to practicing bleeding? And to clarify, you DO need a masters to get promoted to Maj/LtCol/etc? I've already started taking classes to CMA...I was informed that they were no longer permitted to look at education level during the promotion boards while viewing your file.
ClearedHot Posted January 8, 2006 Author Posted January 8, 2006 Originally posted by war007afa: So after reading the letter the goal of the LtGen is to put a stop to practicing bleeding? And to clarify, you DO need a masters to get promoted to Maj/LtCol/etc? I've already started taking classes to CMA...I was informed that they were no longer permitted to look at education level during the promotion boards while viewing your file. Yes, they are trying to stop you from doing the course twice. THe education information is block for promotion boards...HOWEVER, the senior rater can still see you education information and may use that to determine if you get a "DP" or a "P" for your PRF that goes to the promotion board.
Guest croftfam Posted January 8, 2006 Posted January 8, 2006 Good info. Thanks. This is one of the things that constantly nags me. ACSC counts for your Masters though doesn't it?
ClearedHot Posted January 8, 2006 Author Posted January 8, 2006 ACSC in residence will get you a Masters Degree. ACSC in correspondence will not.
Bergman Posted January 8, 2006 Posted January 8, 2006 Good poop, CH. Nice to know there's common sense breaking out everywhere. I know a few guys who have been bitten by the masters requirement changing. Thus, what I used to tell the new LTs in my shop: just f*cking do it. Suck it up and get it knocked out before you make Captain. The AF pays 75-100% of the tuition, so it's basically free. And even if you don't need it for AF promotions, it may come in handy after you leave Big Blue. As for the Master's from ACSC...catch 22! You need a master's to make Major (regardless of what the policy is...senior raters use that to dole out P/DPs, as CH mentioned) but then they give you one after you get promoted. Go figure. At least it's free resume' fodder (and 12 months of cush stateside duty) - again, useful for a second career post-Big Blue.
Mike Honcho Posted January 8, 2006 Posted January 8, 2006 Is the master's still a check box, or does it need to be in an applicable field? I got an MS in biology before OTS and I'm in the WSO pipeline; will I need to get another one? I know times change and this is a way off, but the thread's here.
Hacker Posted January 8, 2006 Posted January 8, 2006 Originally posted by Bergman: As for the Master's from ACSC...catch 22! You need a master's to make Major (regardless of what the policy is...senior raters use that to dole out P/DPs, as CH mentioned) but then they give you one after you get promoted. FWIW, I made Maj fairly recently, with a DP, and no hint of a Masters anywhere on my resume.
Guest croftfam Posted January 8, 2006 Posted January 8, 2006 Originally posted by Hacker: FWIW, I made Maj fairly recently, with a DP, and no hint of a Masters anywhere on my resume.
ClearedHot Posted January 8, 2006 Author Posted January 8, 2006 Originally posted by Hacker: FWIW, I made Maj fairly recently, with a DP, and no hint of a Masters anywhere on my resume. Hacker, Unlike the old days I think the Masters is more of an issue when you are up for LtCol, but I could be wrong. I looked at the demographics from my O-5 board and they no longer track education on the post promotion analysis.
Bergman Posted January 9, 2006 Posted January 9, 2006 Originally posted by Hacker: FWIW, I made Maj fairly recently, with a DP, and no hint of a Masters anywhere on my resume.
dmeg130 Posted January 9, 2006 Posted January 9, 2006 Master's is just a square filler, doesn't matter what it's in. If the AF decides you need a specific one, they can send you to AFIT/NPS to get one. It's a pain in the ass, yes, but there's a lot of options out there from totally on-line, on-base (ERAU especially), or off-base. The sooner you get it done, the better. You've got a lot more free time as a newbie than dealing with OPR crap, the deployment schedule, or kids. BTW, I'm finishing mine up on campus at Arizona this semester. Made Maj just fine without it (helps for IDE slots), but you won't make Lt Col in our Wing without it and ACSC.
Ram Posted January 9, 2006 Posted January 9, 2006 To the old craniums in this thread: Thanks for starting this topic. I have a lot of questions that I'll be asking. This is exactly why I stay on this board.
Nanook Posted January 9, 2006 Posted January 9, 2006 A friendly word for the young guys who are debating the Masters idea...you are in a job that is a heartbeat (or an overzealous Flight Doc) away from looking for a new career. Some of my friends found out the hard way what they want to be when they really grew up.
Eeyore Posted January 9, 2006 Posted January 9, 2006 Words of advice from an old cranium. You must never trust the words from anyone in personnel. In a matters of weeks to months policy can change. So to cover all bases complete PME either way and get masters degree. Remember YOU are filling the square.
war007afa Posted January 9, 2006 Posted January 9, 2006 On the subject of PME...those of us who were caught in the transition of the intro to ABC or ASBC...will it negatively effect us if we don't have it? I've been in formal training since the get-go and never had the opportunity to spend those wonderful weeks in Alabama (sorry for the hijack)
Guest purplecaddis Posted January 10, 2006 Posted January 10, 2006 If the Air Force wants to solve some of its buget woes get rid of PME. It is a waste of resources to send someone off to Maxwell to fill a square. Promotions, in both rank and leadership roles, should be based on someones ability to do their job, not in how good of a flickerball player they are.
Guest Hoser Posted January 10, 2006 Posted January 10, 2006 Like dmeg130 pointed out, there are definetly certain assignments that allow for more time to complete a masters class that others. I finished all but my final paper during my FAIP tour. I can only imagine the pain it would have been to complete during my Ops tour, complete with AEF deployments, ORI's, ORE's, WIC supports, Red Flags, etc. Cap-10
Guest SpectrePilot Posted January 10, 2006 Posted January 10, 2006 What if you have no interest in getting promoted further, BUT are more than willing to pull 20 years actually *working* for Uncle Sam. Is Rumsfeld's proposal of an "Up or Stay" vs. "Up or Out" policy actually happening as was rumored a year ago? Just wondering. Let's face it: the more rank you get, the less flying, traveling, and killing you get to do... Cleared Hot is a fine example of this. (I had to get a dig in at ya, brother!) Hasta!
ClearedHot Posted January 10, 2006 Author Posted January 10, 2006 A fine example...? You are right, what was I thinking getting promoted and sent off to school when I could have been getting ANOTHER alcohol related incident.
Guest SpectrePilot Posted January 10, 2006 Posted January 10, 2006 Touche! Nice... Seriously, though, what do you think of that angle? We've had several Navs/FCOs chug along for 20 and happily retire as Maj's or JR LC's. Don't see that happen with pilots often, though... (Except for one we both know who's about to retire as a Capt!) I'd like to be that 8000-hour old fart who flew 6 different airframes. I'm convinced they can still exist!
ClearedHot Posted January 10, 2006 Author Posted January 10, 2006 I don’t see anything wrong with folks that want to fly for 20 straight years and retire as a Maj or LtCol. Given changes on the way, I wonder if LtCol will be possible. The USAF is poised to cut 40,000 folks and you will be surprised at some of the areas they are looking at. A few years ago we thought everyone would make LtCol, hell I did, but it is getting tougher again and I think the trend will continue. Would I like to fly everyday and do nothing else, you bet, are those the guys I look up to, not always. My heroes are the guys that can fly AND lead you into combat. I would take exception to your “actually *working* for Uncle Sam” comment. Not that I do anything earth shattering, but I know a few folks up here who do more work than flying around the flag pole with a few Navy students. :cool: Ultimately, you have to do what makes you happy. For me I love to fly, but I want to continue to be challenged and sitting back with my feet on the desk for the last 10 years of my career was not for me. [ 10. January 2006, 10:54: Message edited by: Clearedhot ]
Bergman Posted January 14, 2006 Posted January 14, 2006 Originally posted by SpectreDriver: I'd like to be that 8000-hour old fart who flew 6 different airframes. I'm convinced they can still exist! As the tanker saying goes..."An LC AC in the KC" Not a bad life!
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