PME and Career advice

[Mitch Weaver]

Look at TPS if qualified. Knew a couple fliers who got PHDs through AFIT after joining the test community.

There's TPS payback involved. You'll return to the school likely as an O-5 after having spent the last 3 years in Dayton, while your peers have been working ADO/DO/staff tours. And upon returning you're not exactly doing PhD-level work. IMHO there's no real benefit to the USAF, other than having a number of PhDs on staff for a school which now grants Master's degrees.

The Air Force wants warrior-leaders. In that respect, AFMC inherently lacks the depth of ops experience compared to the CAF- and getting a PhD puts you even further out of the game.

[WeMeantWell]

The Air Force wants warrior-leaders. In that respect, AFMC inherently lacks the depth of ops experience compared to the CAF- and getting a PhD puts you even further out of the game.

Two. By going the TPS route, or PhD route you are becoming a depth/technical expert versus a breadth/military expert. This can and has limited advancement opportunities (not saying it is a bad track) past, lets say, Lt Col (I know a few passed over Majors that are TPS grads). Yes, it is possible to continue up the ranks, but requires much more effort to regain the breadth needed to advance. If you want a PhD, the pilot track is not the best option... but not impossible. Work your way to AFMC/TPS/AFRL/Academy, some of these are more painful/difficult to get than others. As Learjetter said, best to be at least an IP, it has become difficult to become one after leaving the traditional "Ops" path.

[Muscle2002]

Yes, it is possible to continue up the ranks, but requires much more effort to regain the breadth needed to advance.

True to some extent...it's most likely harder to advance up the ranks outside of AFMC (if you can even leave), but not as much inside that community (at least not any harder than it would be for someone in the CAF/MAF). [blanket so-to-speak applied].

I would argue getting that PhD/going to TPS/etc gives you breadth when compared to the standard educational background/experience of a line ops guy. In reality, those programs seem to be both depth and breadth depending on how you look at it.

If you want a PhD, the pilot track is not the best option... but not impossible. Work your way to AFMC/TPS/AFRL/Academy, some of these are more painful/difficult to get than others. As Learjetter said, best to be at least an IP, it has become difficult to become one after leaving the traditional "Ops" path.

It makes me wonder: the AF purports to want well-educated leaders, institutes "The Prestigious PhD Program", and has shown increasing emphasis on acquiring language skills. Yet to participate in these programs, it seems you are now at a disadvantage compared to the line aviator with the Container-Checker Master's and little experience outside of the aircraft.

So what is it? Maybe just a force that appears to be well-educated?

Edited for grammar.

Edited April 3, 2011 by Muscle2002

[WeMeantWell]

True to some extent...it's most likely harder to advance up the ranks outside of AFMC (if you can even leave), but not as much inside that community (at least not any harder than it would be for someone in the CAF/MAF). [blanket so-to-speak applied].

I figure it is a numbers game, you have fewer Sqds each with fewer aviators, unless you take a non-flying track.

I would argue getting that PhD/going to TPS/etc gives you breadth when compared to the standard educational background/experience of a line ops guy. In reality, those programs seem to be both depth and breadth depending on how you look at it.

Breadth maybe from a logical perspective, but maybe not from an AF perspective? They just see you as a guy that spent X years to learn how to perform a specific job, regardless of what you actually know/can do.

It makes me wonder: the AF purports to want well-educated leaders, institutes "The Prestigious PhD Program", and has shown increasing emphasis on acquiring language skills. Yet to participate in these programs, it seems you are now at a disadvantage compared to the line aviator with the Container-Checker Master's and little experience outside of the aircraft.

...because we change our philosophy too often, we say a masters degree is not important, than it is important. We say Wing Commanders should first be Ops officer, no wait they should be vice commanders first. We can't change the path for our career leaders every 5 years, the only people that get promoted are the ones who play the game.

I once heard an interesting perspective from the Army side of the house (feel free to correct this over-generalization). The Army takes their well-educated leaders (PhDs, IDE/SDE, etc) and uses them more for 2nd in command (for theory/doctrine), while the 1st in command generally has the field/real-world experience. We seem to do the opposite, and we get a lot of theoretically-good leaders.

[JS]

I think it is a grand idea - throw all the education kinds in a few small cubes down at Maxwell or some room in the Pentagon, while letting the people with real warfighting experience move up in the warfighting ranks so they can continue to fight the war. Brilliant - that's probably why the Air Force doesn't do it that way.

On a side note, it seems that the more these manufactured leaders come into the Wing or Group leadership positions, the worse they are in the plane, which gives them even less credibility amongst the grunts or line fliers.

But in the end, you are right, only the ones who game the system of the day and kiss ass are the ones who get promoted. Or, to put it more eloquently, only the douches get promoted in most cases.

[LJ Driver]

I'm hearing rumors that the SOF DT at Hurlburt a couple weeks ago was eye-opening. Namely that there were far fewer slots available for selects and even non-selects, and that the alternate list was very competitive to get onto. Has anyone else heard the same? Care to offer any insights?

[ClearedHot]

I'm hearing rumors that the SOF DT at Hurlburt a couple weeks ago was eye-opening. Namely that there were far fewer slots available for selects and even non-selects, and that the alternate list was very competitive to get onto. Has anyone else heard the same? Care to offer any insights?

No specific feedback, but I do know SOF folks have been doing very good on promotion boards, PME, Command select boards. The style of combat since 9/11 means the SOF folks have garnered a lot of medals, trophies, and other accolades which have made them very competitive...in some regards too competitive to the point that other commands have complained and pushed back.

As far as I know the number of IDE/SDE slots remains the same, but the pool of strong records in the SOF community has increase thus making it harder to get picked up.

[Learjetter]

Those records got stronger because the system values combat performance? It couldn't be because SOF guys had time to get masters and pme and additional duties done? Where are we headed, air force?!?!?

[ClearedHot]

Those records got stronger because the system values combat performance? It couldn't be because SOF guys had time to get masters and pme and additional duties done? Where are we headed, air force?!?!?

The SOF guys had tons of combat time AND they did thier Masters/PME.

[Learjetter]

The SOF guys had tons of combat time AND they did thier Masters/PME.

Wait, what? From all I've been reading on this board, that's impossible?!?! You mean to tell me the air force is rewarding hard work, dedication to the systemic queepy requirements, flying excellence, and combat performance? Sarcasm off--seems like a good recipe to grow credible hard-chargers as future community leaders...

[Guest]

No specific feedback, but I do know SOF folks have been doing very good on promotion boards, PME, Command select boards. The style of combat since 9/11 means the SOF folks have garnered a lot of medals, trophies, and other accolades which have made them very competitive...in some regards too competitive to the point that other commands have complained and pushed back.

As far as I know the number of IDE/SDE slots remains the same, but the pool of strong records in the SOF community has increase thus making it harder to get picked up.

Of course, this doesn't hurt...

[ClearedHot]

Of course, this doesn't hurt...

And the fighter community never did that?

[TrainerModel]

And the fighter community never did that?

Owned

[Cooter]

I'm hearing rumors that the SOF DT at Hurlburt a couple weeks ago was eye-opening. Namely that there were far fewer slots available for selects and even non-selects, and that the alternate list was very competitive to get onto. Has anyone else heard the same? Care to offer any insights?

I'm curious as a guy who's PRF went up from ACC and am now in AFSOC...would my record meet the SOF DT? And how long does it take for those results to come out? After a few of my AMC buddies got their DT results I'm curious to see how mine would work with the timing of my move. Not that I have a desire to return to ACC...ever.

Cooter

[busdriver]

Not that I have a desire to return to ACC...ever.

Cooter

Herk Guy?

[Cooter]

Herk Guy?

Did the Rivet Joint thing for 7 years.

Cooter

[backseatdriver]

I'm curious as a guy who's PRF went up from ACC and am now in AFSOC...would my record meet the SOF DT? And how long does it take for those results to come out? After a few of my AMC buddies got their DT results I'm curious to see how mine would work with the timing of my move. Not that I have a desire to return to ACC...ever.

Cooter

This is how the process was explained to me by an O-6 that used to work in AFSOC/A1.

It depends on if your RDTM (Rated Distribution and Training Management) code changed with your move to AFSOC. Your RDTM can be found on your SURF (among other places). The RDTM decoder table is in AFI 11-412, Table 6.2 (link below). If your RDTM reflects an AFSOC platform, then you'll meet the SOF DT, if it still has you coded as an RJ guy, you'll meet a different DT (CAF?). This is how the SOF DT controls AFSOC dudes even if they leave AFSOC for other assignments - for instance a Gunship dude who works in DC or instructs at the WIC (i.e. is assigned to ACC) still meets the SOF DT.

I'm not sure how long you have to be in a new airframe for a new RDTM to be assigned.

AFI 11-412

[Beaver]

Apparently PME and a masters isn't enough anymore.

[sky_king]

Make sure you do it via correspondence first.

[matmacwc]

Anyone got the ACSC exercises to work on a Mac, Safari or otherwise?

[old crow]

Just do them at work...no more than 30 min each...unless you're really trying to learn

[matmacwc]

Can't do them at work, gotta finish while on to months of terminal leave, anyone else?

[LJ Driver]

Anyone heard anything ref results from the SOF DT?

Last year the school assignments came out around now. Besides hearing that slots were tough to come by in AFSOC, I haven't heard anything. Normally there is some gauge or rumint floating around but seems to be very little this year

[flyguy2181]

Best thread to ask this question, I guess.

I'm looking at the timeline regarding first,second and third looks for school. When is it the best time to move after my PRF is written to ensure I can compete at all three looks?

Do I need two years on station before my first look? Or do I need one year on-station before my first look... giving me two years on-station when I PCS'd.

[Spoo]

Best thread to ask this question, I guess.

I'm looking at the timeline regarding first,second and third looks for school. When is it the best time to move after my PRF is written to ensure I can compete at all three looks?

Do I need two years on station before my first look? Or do I need one year on-station before my first look... giving me two years on-station when I PCS'd.

Your eligibility for school is not dependent on your TOS. Go to the following page: AFPC Force Development, Active Duty Officer Developmental Education and Special Programs (https://gum-crm.csd.disa.mil/app/answers/detail/a_id/13091/p/8%2C9/c/549). There are options to view 2012 eligibility and the CY2012 call for nominations. You may be younger than this, but it should give you an idea when you will be eligible.