PME and Career advice

[Jaded]

CH , I think your version of mentoring properly acknowledges that the air force is more than just a job - it's a huge part of a person's life. Navigating through life trials is made more difficult by the military, and leaders who recognize this and attempt to mitigate some of those negative effects can have profound impacts on not just a person's career, but their life. Really well said, and I hope other people read your thoughts and take them to heart. 

[sqwatch]

words . 

How do you go from asking for advice on the bonus to attacking the advice you solicited as it doesn't pertain to chi-town street cred?


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[Fuzz]

3 hours ago, slick999 said:

Your analysis...is...wrong...

...blah blah blah...

I am going to be honest. Your mentoring sessions sound like a Beavis & Butthead marathon.

Oh this is gonna be good...

[Guest ThatGuy]

4 hours ago, sqwatch said:

How do you go from asking for advice on the bonus to attacking the advice you solicited as it doesn't pertain to chi-town street cred?


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I didn't ask for CH to pull a Dreymond Green by kicking or punching my balls over a PRF he made an assumption about. An assumption that was far off base and not even about the discussion at hand. Do I need to write a paragraph about how a mentor taught me how to organize my strats and awards in a PRF for CH to clearly assume I didn't have any of those items? Once again, this wasn't a topic I requested advice about. I didnt ask CH about mentorship either. This forum has almost turned into Twitter where people just like to bash and gang up on others. 

Thanks anyways.

 

Edited November 7, 2016 by slick999

[SurelySerious]

1) What do you want? That's the key advice I would give you. Figure that out and base your decision on that information.
2) Do you want to retire the day you hit 20? Yes? Don't take the bonus, since it keeps you in roughly a year and change past that date.
3) Are you planning on staying past 20 as long as you like what you are doing? What if you don't like what you are doing? Can you tolerate another 179 or 365? Do you want the money? Yes to all of those? Take the bonus.
There is no correlation or data to support taking the bonus results in a person getting a 179/365. AFPC may be tone deaf, but they're not nefariously watching for bonus contracts and then correlating them and handing out bad deals specifically to those people. You are not more likely to get a 179/365 because you sign the bonus, you just don't get to 7-day opt if you signed a longer ADSC. If you get promoted to Lt Col or you PCS somewhere else, you're still going to get a 2 or 3 year added ADSC.

As usual Beerman has some sage advice, you really have to answer question #1 before wasting any brain bytes on the other stuff.
I would suggest you ask yourself where you want to be in ten years and work backwards from there.  If your end state is an airline job then mathematically and economically you would be best served to retire as soon as possible, line numbers are everything at the airlines and getting the the airlines a two years sooner could make a HUGE difference in quality of life. 
It makes me sick to my stomach to hear you doubt you'll make Lt Col because you don't have any mentorship, the system is completely broken when the average bro feels like this.  Given the growing shortage of AF pilots, I would think most will make Lt Col, it appears the pilot exodus is accelerating at all levels.  I just heard the promotion opportunity to O-6 on the next board has been raised to 55%.  Given other indicators I think other promotion rates will increase as well. 
In a perfect world, where are in you in ten years?

I didn't ask for CH to pull a Dreymond Green by kicking or punching my balls over a PRF he made an assumption about. An assumption that was far off base and not even about the discussion at hand. Do I need to write a paragraph about how a mentor taught me how to organize my strats and awards in a PRF for CH to assume I didn't have any of those items? Once again, this wasn't a topic I requested advice about. 

Go back and read; the original advice you're looking for is waiting to be provided if you want it. The OPR/PRF bs was a byproduct of a completely different branch of the discussion that you bit off on. Beerman Step 1: what do you want?

[Herk Driver]

Once again, this wasn't a topic I requested advice about. 

What I normally hear is that no one today gives a shit and doesn't provide mentoring to junior officers. That seems to be what I initially thought you were saying...

However, what I think I hear you saying is that you only want to be mentored on those things that you ask about. Never mind any blind spots that you may have or any other wisdom someone may be able to share with you.

Here's some more unsolicited advice, aka mentoring. If you don't want advice, don't ask. True mentoring provides the good, the bad and the ugly. Obviously a conversation is better than an anonymous post on the interwebs, where there is too much opportunity for misunderstanding.




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[tac airlifter]

6 hours ago, slick999 said:

I promise you cant tell me how to avoid being shot, robbed, or pulled over by cops while visiting relatives in the projects of Chicago. You have not walked a mile in my shoes. 

How do you know any of this?  

[sqwatch]

I didn't ask for CH to pull a Dreymond Green by kicking or punching my balls over a PRF he made an assumption about. An assumption that was far off base and not even about the discussion at hand. Do I need to write a paragraph about how a mentor taught me how to organize my strats and awards in a PRF for CH to clearly assume I didn't have any of those items? Once again, this wasn't a topic I requested advice about. I didnt ask CH about mentorship either. This forum has almost turned into Twitter where people just like to bash and gang up on others. 
Thanks anyways.
 

Hmm, that's not what I gathered from his post. I could be wrong, then again I thought I was wrong once but I made a mistake.

At any rate, a 365 may or may not be in your future should you take the bonus. This was one of the major considerations I made before deciding not to take the bonus. If I was in a different spot in my career, i.e. a school guy on a vector, this may not have been a big deal.

Should I get tagged with a 180 or 365, I can choose to go or not. That ability to choose only cost me $225k. What's it worth to you? Can you stomach the 'died for a year with a bunch of passed over majors who can't/don't mentor and probably can't E&E out of the Chicago projects?

I had some good mentors in my career- ironically the best was in the Robot community. However, I- like others have eluded too- ignored that mentorship in favor of my own wants/desires. Sure enough, it got me right where I thought/they said it would- back in the cockpit but stuck behind my peers.

You have some good dudes here trying to give you the advice you're looking for, including some very accomplished grey-hairs who continue to frequent this forum despite the overwhelming sport b1tching that goes on. The impression I get is you've made your decision and you're looking for sympathy.

Then again, I could be wrong...



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[matmacwc]

37 minutes ago, sqwatch said:

I had some good mentors in my career- ironically the best was in the Robot community. However, I- like others have eluded too- ignored that mentorship in favor of my own wants/desires. Sure enough, it got me right where I thought/they said it would- back in the cockpit but stuck behind my peers.




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I've given the advice you received, and it has been ignored on countless occasions.  However, I have come to learn never ignore your own wants and desires, though things may not work out in your favor.

[ViperStud]

Slick, grow the F up.

CH made one jab at your comment about the "retirement benefits" attached to Lt Col vs Maj and you get butthurt?  I don't even know who CH is, but lurking around here for years means I know he's the kind of dude that the AF needs to clone.  I respect him more for his recent comment that he'd blast right at 20 if he could do it over again - that shows humility and the ability to realize the bureaucracy will press on in spite of the best efforts of 1 or 2 or 6-9 great dudes that crack through the system.

I agree with the sentiments that you've made a decision and only want reinforcement rather than honest feedback.  It all comes down to Beerman's #1 question and you can't answer it.  Mine was simple - regroup and take advantage of an opportunity to get my entire family within 2 hrs of each other, while simultaneously keeping open as many options as possible.  I passed up $25K@9yrs for that.  The irony is that my AGR bonus (pending the release) may exceed it, but that's just a chuckle-worthy story about how timing is everything.  

Money is no substitute for QOL; even if your decision is made already you need to realize that everyone's situation is a little different.  Bitching at one of the [very respected] old guard here won't win you any street cred among this group of dudes that have already made the decisions you are pining over and moved on to bigger/better things.  You can stand tall in Cabrini Green?  Good for you.  Get one of those asshats you feel so comfortable among to jump us who live in a non-libtard state; they'll get shot.  You aren't shit to the guys here who have already been there and done that.

Edited November 7, 2016 by ViperStud

[Chuck17]

This one really took a turn for the "what the hell?!"

I'm sure we've each had good, bad, or nonexistent experiences in the mentoring department. Just like mentors you learn from the bad ones almost as much as from the good.

Or at least you should. 

What I'm saying is you should be able to take something away regardless of the advice given. You may not like what you hear. You may think said mentor is out to lunch. Thems the breaks.

It's equally an opportunity to provide the two way street you lament not receiving here, Slick. Be an instructor. Don't tell everyone CH's advice isn't mentoring... tell them why. (Youre wrong by the way, IMHO)  Tell us "What I'm looking for is ...." You alluded to your time spent joint - what's mentoring look like to those joint guys you mentioned? What would they expect if they asking the same questions?  Please tell us, because I for one want to compare it to my similar experiences with our sister services.

Otherwise the petulant whine (and the cry me a river 'everyone is ganging up on me' self-pity BS) has no place, especially in a conversation about mentoring...

Chuck 

 

[Ram]

"Be an instructor. Don't tell everyone what...tell them WHY.

Otherwise the petulant wine has no place."

Fvcking SHACK. You just summed up 69.36% of what is wrong with this forum lately.

SNAPS take note.

EDIT: I've been here for 13 gawddamn years and I can't swear? Would some comm nerd FVCKING FIX THIS BULLSH!T???

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[Spoo]

Damn, I walk away from this thread for one day...

Slick, you have an odd perspective.

"I have seen guys who got fighters passed over twice for major. I can promise you it was due to lack of mentorship."

I'm not sure what the "got fighters" thing has to do with it, but that's bullshit. I'll bet dollars to donuts that they knew why they were passed over, and it wasn't due to a lack of mentorship. If you're not willing to expend a little effort figuring out what it takes to get promoted, don't be pissed when you don't meet the min requirements. It's called personal responsibility and taking an interest in your career progression. Besides, do you really need a mentor to tell you to finish SOS and don't get any DUIs? 

"Since I am older than the officers I referred to earlier, I learned to ask people for advice. I can only assume they never asked questions about what it takes to get promoted. During my enlisted time, I never had to ask for mentorship."

Knowing when to ask questions and seek advice has nothing to with age or experience, it's common sense. If you're wondering what you should do or if you measure up, and you stay silent, that's on you. Speak the fuck up. Mentorship is a two way street, it takes effort on the part of the mentored (protege?) to make his or her desires known and seek counsel from somebody they trust.  This is not to say that leaders and mentors don't have a responsibility to identify those that demonstrate potential or need help, but effectiveness is incumbent upon both parties' ability to communicate. 

Sorry to pile on, but the "he or she got screwed because the Air Force sucks and we don't know how to mentor" is a bullshit narrative.    

EDIT: BTW Ram, it's also bullshit that you can't swear.

Edited November 7, 2016 by Spoo

[Spoo]

BTW Slick, the following is not mentorship:

"Mentorship was pretty consistent since I was being groomed." 

This is advocacy/sponsorship.

[MTC]

I'm looking for good info on JPME II, and there isn't much on this forum.  That leads me to believe it's not a great option for aircrew.  Can anybody confirm/deny this?  Is it a good time?  Any boost for promotions below O-6?  Thanks for any tips.

[Herk Driver]

You need JPME II to be promoted above O-6. I wouldn't sweat it unless you have those aspirations. There are some great jobs out there that you need JPME II to get but usually they will send you to school if needed. YMMV.

ETA: this may be different for ARC guys looking for long term RPA/MPA jobs.

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[tac airlifter]

41 minutes ago, MTC said:

I'm looking for good info on JPME II, and there isn't much on this forum.  That leads me to believe it's not a great option for aircrew.  Can anybody confirm/deny this?  Is it a good time?  Any boost for promotions below O-6?  Thanks for any tips.

JPME2 was the single stupidest course of any type I've ever taken.  

[MTC]

9 minutes ago, tac airlifter said:

JPME2 was the single stupidest course of any type I've ever taken.  

And that's why I read here.  Thanks for the time-saving advice. Cheers.

[Guest No2bonus]

My IPZ is in 2019 and I will hit my 19 year mark in November 2019. Is it frowned upon by leadership and a continuation board knowing you want to retire and not doing your PME at all?

I don't express my retirement intentions with leadership. I keep it to myself about retiring because my viewpoint may change. But I highly doubt it will change.

Edited April 5, 2017 by No2bonus

[pawnman]

3 hours ago, No2bonus said:

My IPZ is in 2019 and I will hit my 19 year mark in November 2019. Is it frowned upon by leadership and a continuation board knowing you want to retire and not doing your PME at all?

I don't express my retirement intentions with leadership. I keep it to myself about retiring because my viewpoint may change. But I highly doubt it will change.

Not doing the PME will certainly be frowned on by leadership and the promotion board.  I think every person with wings and a pulse is getting the maximum continuation right now, so you'll probably make it to retirement.

[celtic020]

Knowledgeable folks:  Wondering if anyone has insight into the IDE Central Board.  My 3849 had "#2/7 nominees, #4/110 Wg O-4s..." and some Wg CGO strats.  Box checked "Not a Select".  Think that has a chance to get through or does the non-select thing hurt me too much?  Cheers. 

[Homestar]

I have no inside info, but with that push in my Wing you'd be an alternate for sure in today's climate. 

[Bender]

Knowledgeable folks:  Wondering if anyone has insight into the IDE Central Board.  My 3849 had "#2/7 nominees, #4/110 Wg O-4s..." and some Wg CGO strats.  Box checked "Not a Select".  Think that has a chance to get through or does the non-select thing hurt me too much?  Cheers. 

I had basically that exact push as a sitting DO of an ops squadron...I thought it was possible, but that was a no go a couple years ago.

Quite honestly, it's hard to say these days...we had two guys from white jets get picked up recently. Good dudes by all accounts, couldn't pass any constructive details about the records though.

Either way, good luck (if you're into that sort of thing)! ...on the way out though, the non-select thing doesn't hurt any more than the selects will get the seats before you do; you are in the fight for the scraps in the system as it is. They already know you're a non-select, checking the box isn't news...it's just communicating a known.

Bendy


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[BashiChuni]

F the system go reserves + airlines

[tac airlifter]

5 hours ago, celtic020 said:

Knowledgeable folks:  Wondering if anyone has insight into the IDE Central Board.  My 3849 had "#2/7 nominees, #4/110 Wg O-4s..." and some Wg CGO strats.  Box checked "Not a Select".  Think that has a chance to get through or does the non-select thing hurt me too much?  Cheers. 

With those strats I would expect you to be competitive for an alternate slot, but no guarantees.  What look is this for you?  It matters. 

 That said, the past year things have gotten unpredictable.