PME and Career advice

[di1630]

School is not required to learn that particular skill, or how to be a good leader, but it does give people a bigger picture perspective outside of left hand, right hand, throttle, lift vector, G. I think that's really valuable. Not to an 8 year Captain IP, but certainly to a 12-14 year Major. 

There are a lot of better/useful ways to get perspective and a bigger picture than spending a year at acsc. How about on the job experience? Can anyone tell me they needed to learn what was taught at acsc in order to succeed at that post staff job? I'm pretty sure competent officers could do staff just fine without.

I've said it 69 times, I just don't understand on the slightest why anyone wants to do school in res unless it's for a vacation from the CAF....if so, I have better ideas of how to spend a year slacking.


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[Jpilot]

On 10/24/2016 at 10:50 AM, Runr6730 said:

I received an interesting email today.

AF/A1 has amended the 7-day option for DE selection.  Essentially, those selected to attend DE in residence will be notified of their selection and given the option to decline without being forced to separate. 3 weeks later, the actual school locations will be released.  At that point, if selectees choose to decline school, they will be forced to separate.  This is to prevent "self before service" (people only accepting school if it's to a location they want).  

The good news: those who don't want school can stay in.  The bad news, those who do want school must be all-in.

 

[di1630]

I'm sure once upon a time many many years ago, school was relevant to command, but I know a few cc's who never did in-res who were terrific.

The stuff you need can be learned through real world immersion.

If school worked, we wouldn't be seeing the constant complaints of poor leadership.....err, I mean management and we wouldn't be losing so many natural leaders to guard/res.

PME in its current form is a symptom of our broken system.








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[Blue]

17 minutes ago, Ho Lee Fuk said:

 But almost no civilian or military leaders question the underlying rationale for educating officers that have been selected to command.  So that's not going to change.  Of course there are ways to improve each course.

How much of "school" is actually helpful and relevant, and how much is simply a matter of sending folks to government run courses so that the government run courses have a reason to exist (i.e. the self-licking ice cream cone model)?

[Duck]

I think the real question is not why people don't want to go to school, but rather why do people not want to command. Having worked directly for Sq, Gp and Wg Commanders it's amazing how little power they actually have over their own people. Give the right Commanders back their power and watch the good guys want to stick around because they think they can make a difference. As long as people see their Commanders wasted time and effort, few will want to be in Command, except for those using it as a stepping stone to another level.


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[herkbum]

Well it can't get any worse than correspondence Edition 17 AWC. Tons of reading, most of it not as interesting as the stuff I read back in ACSC. Some good stuff buried deep within the program. The last course is Joint Strat Ldrshp, where you write a PDP consisting of you personal senior leadership philosophy; short, mid, long-term personal and professional goals. This was the first time I had ever put my thoughts on this on paper, which i feel is ridiculous. This should have been done early in ACSC. At this point in my career, I am more than likely to retire than get promoted. The PDP is something that could be molded as your career progresses, not written right before you retire.


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[pawnman]

1 hour ago, herkbum said:

Well it can't get any worse than correspondence Edition 17 AWC. Tons of reading, most of it not as interesting as the stuff I read back in ACSC. Some good stuff buried deep within the program. The last course is Joint Strat Ldrshp, where you write a PDP consisting of you personal senior leadership philosophy; short, mid, long-term personal and professional goals. This was the first time I had ever put my thoughts on this on paper, which i feel is ridiculous. This should have been done early in ACSC. At this point in my career, I am more than likely to retire than get promoted. The PDP is something that could be molded as your career progresses, not written right before you retire.


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It's my goal to reach Lt Col on the strength of ACSC in correspondence, and never do another PME again.

[nrodgsxr]

so i just got word that I got selected for IDE. Anyone know where the rules are posted for accepting school, 7 day opt, etc? I read PSDM 16-10 but I couldn't figure out if I could see which school I got then decide to 7-day opt after if I didn't want it. I'm guessing no.

[di1630]

How would you fix PME from its current form?

My gut instinct is to make it a working group to solve issues. Some academics at first then let loose on actual problem solving in the modern world.

Immagine if WIC taught outdated doctrine and tactics then said "great, go be a tactical leader."

Throw a real problem and get a real solution or at least a possible COA.

I did ACSC via correspondence, so I'm only going off what I know of course content and studies from others, but it sounds like there is very little correlation between subject matter taught and real world application.

I'll back that up with some of the turds I saw return to the real world after a year at school and then staff, jumping into a CAF leadership role, they were actually "less" prepared to face real issues than others who had stayed in the real world.

School has become a container to check on the way to higher command.

Personally, I'm not so sure we shouldn't canx ACSC altogether vs it's current form.

AWC, I'm not sure what it is like/taught. I have no plan to do it in correspondence so I'll never know.




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[Runr6730]

2 hours ago, nrodgsxr said:

so i just got word that I got selected for IDE. Anyone know where the rules are posted for accepting school, 7 day opt, etc? I read PSDM 16-10 but I couldn't figure out if I could see which school I got then decide to 7-day opt after if I didn't want it. I'm guessing no.

From what I read, if you decline before the school list is released, you aren't forced to 7-day opt.  If you decline after finding out which assignment you received, you'll be forced to separate.

[pawnman]

2 hours ago, Runr6730 said:

From what I read, if you decline before the school list is released, you aren't forced to 7-day opt.  If you decline after finding out which assignment you received, you'll be forced to separate.

How long before they start telling pilots "nevermind, you don't actually have to separate"?

[BashiChuni]

i thought all correspondence was done with?

 

first step is to get rid of that worthless crap

[Abchawg]

So if Phase 2 drops on 8 Dec how does that work for people selected for the CSAF Masters programs? Some of those application deadlines are as early as 1 Dec for Fall '17. Seems like you get selected for a program you can't get in to.

[polcat]

Would more people accept IDE in-correspondence if it solely consisted of the ACSC OLMP as long as the USAF rid itself of the "advanced degree requirement" to make major?

[Champ Kind]

That's all well and good but you also have to reference the earlier comments about the USAF being infatuated with in-residence PME.

Not completing PME via correspondence all but eliminates you for promotion contention, but doesn't do a great deal to help your case, either.

Edited October 28, 2016 by Champ Kind

[polcat]

On 10/28/2016 at 3:34 PM, Champ Kind said:

That's all well and good but you also have to reference the earlier comments about the USAF being infatuated with in-residence PME.

Not completing PME via correspondence all but eliminates you for promotion contention, but doesn't do a great deal to help your case, either.

The good ole rock and a hard place for those resisting PME but want to serve and make it to at least 20.

[pawnman]

3 hours ago, polcat said:

The good ole rock and a hard place for those resisting PME but want to serve and make it to at least 20.

I did the ACSC correspondence in about 4 months, on and off, mostly while pulling SOF shifts in the tower.  While I agree it's dumb to make people do correspondence to be "competitive" for in residence, if you're planning to make it a career and you're not competitive, I would just bite the bullet and do the correspondence.  There were some actual good nuggets buried in there amongst the BS.

[Harvey]

I'm heavily leaning towards bailing to the airlines in the near future, but I'm willing to at least look at what the AF will offer with the upcoming school matches  

If you were given ACSC-PAS when they announce the schools, would it be worth staying in for?

I know everyone is different, but I'm just trying to get a read on the program. 

Thanks guys

[Ram]

I'm heavily leaning towards bailing to the airlines in the near future, but I'm willing to at least look at what the AF will offer with the upcoming school matches  
If you were given ACSC-PAS when they announce the schools, would it be worth staying in for?
I know everyone is different, but I'm just trying to get a read on the program. 
Thanks guys

It sounds like you can definitely expect a staff tour on the back end. That should make for at least 3 years out of the jet, with no guarantee of return on your terms.

If it's a match for your personal goals, go for it...especially if pol/mil stuff gives you a chub. If not, pass.


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[Ram]

As an additional comment, realize that throwing your name in for PAS might also make the school board assume you're willing to go the RAS track for school (overseas IDE). That involves time at DLI as well, which only lengthens your non-flying time.

Nowadays, since everyone has a DLAB score on file, you have to be explicit in how you communicate your intent and your desires.


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[Ram]

Me. Currently in Korea finishing school now. Skipping staff (11F shortage, yo) and craniuming back to the jet in 69 days.


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[matmacwc]

3 hours ago, Ram said:

Me. Currently in Korea finishing school now. Skipping staff (11F shortage, yo) and craniuming back to the jet in 69 days.


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Do you have a Chief of Safety job or a IG job lined up?  If not, have fun non flying in the Stan or an MC-12.  I personally think you are F'd, but the TX will be fun.

but in the back of your mind, you already know this.

Edited November 1, 2016 by matmacwc

[Ram]

You know I'm going to a squadron in Korea, right? I have never seen an actively flying pilot in Korea get fragged for that shit. Also, this educational tour is a short remote, so I re-hacked my STRD.

Local leadership knows I speak Korean, so they're planning to leverage that. I doubt that's possible in any of the 'Stans.

Suck it, AFPC.


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[Harvey]

11 hours ago, Ram said:

 

It sounds like you can definitely expect a staff tour on the back end. That should make for at least 3 years out of the jet, with no guarantee of return on your terms.

If it's a match for your personal goals, go for it...especially if pol/mil stuff gives you a chub. If not, pass.


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Ram,

   Thanks for the prospective. I talked to the PAS functional and he said that I would be in staff for 1 assignment and then back to my rated functional to be managed. 

   Like you said, when I come back it's not necessarily going to be on my terms, and I'm starting to see that the huge lack of control I have over my path the next 10 years is part of what is making the airlines so appealing. 

[Harvey]

8 hours ago, BeerMan said:

They changed the rules for IDE two years ago to make 11Fs ineligible for overseas schools. It was too much time out of the jet, language class, school, an international mandatory staff pay back ended up being 4-5 years. It was in the comments of the school list from AFPC. 

I know a guy who did the ACSC-RAS/PAS program a few years ago, and he enjoyed it. Ended up doing overseas MAJCOM staff as a follow on, and then went back to the jet. They did cut his travel at ACSC a bit due to sequestration and one of the many Continuing Resolutions we've had over the last 10 years, so there is always the risk of that. 

Do you know anyone in your community who has gone thru the program?

I do know a few guys who have done it. The basic jist has been that the assignments vary greatly after school, and it will be a crap shoot as far as what the functional will want to do with me coming back after staff. 

Most everyone seem like they were as happy as they could be as far as a staff job goes. 

You are right about the 11F restriction, they can't even do the ACSC PAS right now.