Advanced Instrument School (AIS)

[Whitman]

Dec 2012 update:

Metro Tech will do the mil comp. testing:

It's about a mile north of the FAA center (where AIS is), on the corner of SW 59th and MacArthur/Regina. Look for DC3 static display.

OKLAHOMA CITY

Lasergrade Computer Testing

Metro Tech Aviation Career Center

5600 N MacArthur Blvd Oklahoma City, OK 73179

405-605-5500

Call first to schedule, and ask what paperwork you'll need to bring.

Is it free like Tinker's education office was?

[Learjetter]

Is it free like Tinker's education office was?

Sorry, no it's not. I think it's still $150. Worth every penny, IMHBAO.

[Whitman]

Word...taking it Thursday at my local airport. $140 with AOPA membership

[HEFOE P]

AIS no longer has the end of course presentation.

Also, they've added a one hour brief on UAS Systems! This former C-5 then RQ-4 guy talks about how unmanned is so much smarter and w/e. He did well at calming folks down, but the atmosphere was openly hostile. He called us "legacy thinkers."

Then, he pulls out his personal UAS! It was a thousand bucks and had 4 rotor blades with a camera in the middle. He proceeds to take it off and crash into the first row of student desks!

There weren't even any SU-27's around...Guess it "lost link."

[flyusaf83]

FYI... I just called Tinker's Education Office. They no longer administer FAA tests ( I was asking him about the CFI equivalency). The guy said they haven't done FAA testing in about 6 months.

I just did my ATP written exam at AIS a couple weeks ago. It was free and easy. They also do the comp test for free. Not sure about the CFI.

[FlyFastLiveSlow]

He called us "legacy thinkers."

He's right of course. Drones are more economical and they don't place a pilots life at risk. However, removing the danger from combat aviation kinda sucks the fun out of it. A Prius is safe and economical, but I won't drive one. I'm sure Grand Theft Auto is fun, but I'd rather run my M3 any day. Manned combat aviation is less than 100 years old and probably won't make 200. This will be an exclusive club. Not quite the same as dudes that have walked on the moon, but there have been soldiers and sailers for thousands of years.

[GW]

AIS no longer has the end of course presentation.

Also, they've added a one hour brief on UAS Systems! This former C-5 then RQ-4 guy talks about how unmanned is so much smarter and w/e. He did well at calming folks down, but the atmosphere was openly hostile. He called us "legacy thinkers."

Then, he pulls out his personal UAS! It was a thousand bucks and had 4 rotor blades with a camera in the middle. He proceeds to take it off and crash into the first row of student desks!

There weren't even any SU-27's around...Guess it "lost link."

If this is what they're teaching at AIS now (and I only graduated two years ago) than the AF has completely lost sight of the intent of this course.

[AA]

AIS is a full FAA testing center. They can administer any FAA exam.

Hey GW, feel free to call AIS and discuss with them what the intent of the course should be. AIS is for pilots by pilots and its constantly evolving and is always welcome to constructive feedback to make it better.

[stract]

thread bump

Any Army aviators lurking who can provide any gouge on what the Army teaches holding entry and HOW it's taught?  I already have my hands on the Navy Instrument FTI.  Trying to see what the other services teach for the AIM method of entry.  The Navy way is the relationship between aircraft heading and the reciprocal of the inbound course and gang signs, curious if the Army teaches it that way too.

Reason - AIS is saying the 70º method is being dropped from the next version of the 11-217. 

[sky_king]

Look at the picture.  Do what makes sense.

[nunya]

A helo guy at AIS?  You must be even more bored than the Herk guys!  Make sure you brief that ALSF-2 on your next approach.   

For a real answer: https://armypubs.army.mil/doctrine/DR_pubs/dr_a/pdf/fm3_04x240.pdf

Edited October 23, 2015 by nunya

[stract]

nunya, I went to AIS in 2011.  Was quite bored...I like the mac daddy of approach lighting systems!  I'm building a working model just like they have at AIS to incorporate into my IRC, in fact.

Back on a serious note...that FM doesn't explain HOW to figure out which sector you are in to determine your holding entry (unless I missed it somewhere).  That's what I really need.

Skyking, so that's how you'd teach a brand new student at IQT?  I don't need snark - I know how to figure it out, using my tried and true gang signs, I want to know how others have instructed it to figure out the best way to present it to the students.  Thanks for playing.

[Breckey]

I was taught to use the opposite hand with fingers closed and palm out to approximate the AIM method.

For example if I was going to be entering a standard holding pattern, I'd hold my left hand to the HSI, with fingers closed and thumb at it's open position. If the reciprocal of the inbound leg is below the thumb line it's a direct entry, between the pointer and the thumb-teardrop, pointer around the horn to the thumb line-parallel.

It's complicated to explain but easy to demonstrate when you hold it up to the HSI drawings you have linked. It'll get within the "conveniently aligned" WAG satisfying the 11-217.

[stract]

I was taught to use the opposite hand with fingers closed and palm out to approximate the AIM method.

For example if I was going to be entering a standard holding pattern, I'd hold my left hand to the HSI, with fingers closed and thumb at it's open position. If the reciprocal of the inbound leg is below the thumb line it's a direct entry, between the pointer and the thumb-teardrop, pointer around the horn to the thumb line-parallel.

It's complicated to explain but easy to demonstrate when you hold it up to the HSI drawings you have linked. It'll get within the "conveniently aligned" WAG satisfying the 11-217.

Thanks Breckey.  I'm trying to figure out if all the services who currently teach the AIM method teach it the same way.  The way you describe is how I learned it via the USN at Whiting Field.  Since USMC and USCG training is also conducted by the USN, that only leaves the Army. 

[Prozac]

I was taught to use the opposite hand with fingers closed and palm out

 

The stranger?

[matmacwc]

The Army?  I was sitting SOF at Shaw one day, 0/0 due to fog.  Army PAT calls me up on the ground and asks me what HIS takeoff minimums were, geniuses.

[Skitzo]

Thread bump.

Just attended this course as an O-5 staff MAJCOM Stan/Eval guy. Excellent course, excellent staff, went above and beyond.

I’ll put the plug out there that if you are flying FTIP reviewed procedures to really double check the TERPS / MAJCOM A3 review.

There are a lot of assumptions on both sides of the table but the BL is you are the PIC and it’s your ass.

Just because it is signed doesn’t mean it’s safe.

[BADFNZ]

7 hours ago, Skitzo said:

Thread bump.

Just attended this course as an O-5 staff MAJCOM Stan/Eval guy. Excellent course, excellent staff, went above and beyond.

I’ll put the plug out there that if you are flying FTIP reviewed procedures to really double check the TERPS / MAJCOM A3 review.

There are a lot of assumptions on both sides of the table but the BL is you are the PIC and it’s your ass.

Just because it is signed doesn’t mean it’s safe.

Depends how good of a deal the approach is to.

Edited January 18, 2020 by BADFNZ

[JBueno]

Just curious if any non-IPs have been to AIS recently. If so, please drop me a PM.

[ThreeHoler]

Just curious if any non-IPs have been to AIS recently. If so, please drop me a PM.

Extremely rare and needs a waiver. They can be done but usually it is someone who has an IP course already scheduled.

[SocialD]

4 hours ago, ThreeHoler said:

Extremely rare and needs a waiver. They can be done but usually it is someone who has an IP course already scheduled.

 

 

Really?   Is that a Majcom and/or airframe thing.  Every dude we've sent since I've been in the squadron (13ish years) has not been an IP.  Only one of them went on to be an IP.  

[Guardian]

Same

[FLEA]

When I was there seemed like AMC was a lot more proactive about pushing people through than ACC or AFSOC who were just sending the minimum to get their IRC boxes checked. AMC on the other hand was sending any and everyone they could. A bit of a narrow data set but that was my one experience. 

[DirkDiggler]

7 hours ago, FLEA said:

When I was there seemed like AMC was a lot more proactive about pushing people through than ACC or AFSOC who were just sending the minimum to get their IRC boxes checked. AMC on the other hand was sending any and everyone they could. A bit of a narrow data set but that was my one experience. 

In my experience, AFSOC doesn't get that many AIS slots to begin with.  When a slot becomes available there's usually multiple volunteers (lotta guys want to get it on their record for airline apps, don't know if it legit helps or not).  Yet it seems a lot of the time there's people due IRC and we're scrounging for someone to teach it.

[FLEA]

19 minutes ago, DirkDiggler said:

In my experience, AFSOC doesn't get that many AIS slots to begin with.  When a slot becomes available there's usually multiple volunteers (lotta guys want to get it on their record for airline apps, don't know if it legit helps or not).  Yet it seems a lot of the time there's people due IRC and we're scrounging for someone to teach it.

I think it's the MAJCOM/A3T that purchases the slots though and AMC just buys a lot more. So that's probably a big facet of it.