USAF Weapons School (WIC) info

[Mickey]

You should ask your weapons officer at Tyndall. It doesn't matter what the pilots are looking for it matters what the instructors are looking for.

[ChiefSlapahoe]

Mickey is 100% correct. Work hard, know your shit, and make sure your weapons officers know what you want for career progression. There's guys who were groomed for weapons school from the very beginning (mostly cause they worked hard and made it clear that's what they wanted) at Tinker and had a much easier time getting picked up versus the guys "playing catchup."

Also, don't bring it weak. If you're struggling then study harder and ask for help. Weapons officers are looked at as the primary instructor for the squadron so if a weapons officer can't look at you and feel that then you're wrong. Best of luck!

[matmacwc]

Rainman would tell you to show up to the schoolhouse and announce your entrance, they'll just throw you in the next class.

Edited July 28, 2012 by matmacwc

[brickhistory]

Rainman would tell you to show up to the schoolhouse and announce your entrance, they'll just throw you in the next class.

This.

While your enthusiasm is great, you, in this thread opener, have what looks like the horse-cart imbalance.

While I would never equate ABM school to UPT/UNT, not everybody can do the job. Make sure you can before you start publicly looking for the advanced stages.

Graduating DG or some such, getting to your first assignment and busting ass at getting MR, would carry a lot of weight for establishing your credibility. Certainly ask your Weapons Officer(s) about the school, let 'em know you are interested, but be humble and good first.

Be a mission hound to get as many control opportunities as you possibly can. Not only will that help you get into the School, it will help you perform at it. It is not for the weak.

[abmwaldo]

1. Graduate Tyndall.

2. Graduate your MDS training.

3. Get CMR.

4. Fly on the jet/work the CRC for 6 months.

5. Talk to your Weapons Officer.

Unless you have prior experience with an ABM platform I recommend the above path. At this point it's like being a freshmen at college where everyone is pre-med (not equating UABMT to med school). Figure out what the job is and if you like it or are able to execute.

Come find me in DOW when you get to Tyndall.

[koonunga_hill]

Copy on the whole looking too far ahead without knowing if I can even make it through UABMT issue, I just didn't know how early one should start setting that up, but it looks like that shouldn't be a problem for at least a couple of years, so I'll focus on what's right in front of me.

As for why I want to be one, I want to be an expert on effectively using air assets in combat, to know what weapons systems are needed for which missions, and then to help execute those missions as well as possible. I also want all the knowledge that weapons officers have, that's another big part of my reason.

However it looks as though I have bigger things on my plate at this point, but thanks for putting things in perspective.

[Guest]

Don't get ahead of yourself. You don't pick weapons school...it picks you.

Do a good job, focus on being the best you can be wherever you are at whatever you're doing and it will work out.

[hindsight2020]

Don't get ahead of yourself. You don't pick weapons school...it picks you.

Do a good job, focus on being the best you can be wherever you are at whatever you're doing and it will work out.

LOL...not in the Buff it doesn't...

Edited July 30, 2012 by hindsight2020

[10percenttruth]

LOL...not in the Buff it doesn't...

I'll call BS on this one. I've seen plenty of dudes in the BUFF world get drug kicking an screaming into the patch factory because it was "good for them".

Granted, somewhere along the way they changed their views and are by far the excellent example that a patch should be, but at the outset they were "strongly encouraged to submit a package" (sts), regardless of their desires.

[Guest]

Without being a Weapons Officer. Every pilot and controller should want to do that period. And if anyone tells you otherwise, tell them they're full of shit.

There is no secret squirrel 3-1 for weapons officers only. You can know everything anyone else knows when it comes to that. Obviously, there may be a few things that weapons officers know that you don't know because of exposure and training. They are responsible for teaching you those things.

Weapons officers are not better than anyone else but they are expected to make everyone else better. If they are not doing that they are failing.

LOL...not in the Buff it doesn't...

Interesting. The system is broken if that is true.

I'll call BS on this one. I've seen plenty of dudes in the BUFF world get drug kicking an screaming into the patch factory because it was "good for themthe USAF".

... at the outset they were "strongly encouraged to submit a package" (sts), regardless of their desires.

FIFY.

FWIW, that is definitely my story. The first time I was told (by a Flt/CC who had just shown up in the squadron from Nellis where he had been a FWIC IP) that he was going to talk to the Sq/CC and start grooming me for weapons school I was only a brand new 2 ship flt lead and my response was simply "go fuck yourself." And that was during a checkride debrief where I had just finished telling him that he could hook me or pass me but either way we were going to finish the debrief in the parking lot because I thought he was an asshole and he behaved like an idiot as a wingman during the checkride. In fact, I requested an IFR clnc on the RTB so that I could climb into the wx and make him fly close as a punishment for how he had behaved.

I know, cool story bro, but I want to emphasize the fact that the weapons school finds you not the other way around. Part of a weapons officer's training is to find and develop talent and it is not a popularity contest.

Once a person crosses the weapons officer threshold they are marrying a certain way of life that involves a lot of extra work and they are agreeing to be held accountable for certain things and to be willing to answer certain calls, no matter what. Not all of those things are good deals.

While there are many opportunities presented to weapons officers there are an equal number of expectations.

Edit to add: FWIW, I flew with many pilots who I believed would have been outstanding weapons officers but for whatever reason, usually timing or personal/family issues, they never went to Nellis. They continued to be excellent pilots and officers and I learned a lot from them even though most of them were much younger than I was. I thought no less of them for declining and they are some of my best friends.

[FourFans]

"...but they are expected to make everyone else better."

That's the end goal. Never forget that. It's all about making our squadrons better without worrying about who gets the credit. Not very many people are, at their core, truly ok with improving something without getting some form of credit for the part the played.

Be the best you can. See where God leads you. If it's towards the WIC, talk to your WO.

FF

[PK...]

Hmmm... interesting.

[Enlisted heroes receive graduate-level education at Weapons School]

https://www.afsoc.af.mil/news/story.asp?id=123335303

Slowly opening to more and more career fields

---

PK...

[Fuzz]

In one battle, Hayde recalls a JTAC clearing a helicopter to rescue a critically wounded soldier and calling close air support using two B-1B Lancers, two F-15E Strike Eagles and four A-10s while returning fire with his rifle.

Wow

[Danger41]

How long is the ADSC for attending WIC?

What kind of opportunities does it open/close for you as a mid-level captain?  Specifically asking from an AFSOC perspective, but in general as well.

[osulax05]

3yr. ADSC IIRC... The application PDSM will have all of that info.

I can't speak for AFSOC, but I can tell you that overall patch wearers are in high demand both in the traditional tactics role and elsewhere. Being a WO will open more doors for you than it will close.  However, if you are worried about what opportunities you will have upon graduation you may be interested in WIC for the wrong reasons. I'm not saying this is the case, but that type of question would certainly raise suspicion in my community.

 Apply if you want to be the best leader you can be in and out of the airplane. Don't apply if you are only interested in the benefit you/your career might get out of it. 

 

Edited to correct years.

Edited December 29, 2015 by osulax05

[Wendell]

WIC ADSC is 3 years, if you are in your original aircraft it can not extend you beyond your Pilot ADSC (10 years). (Note 1b), if you crossflow into a different aircraft prior to WIC you will only incur the full ADSC up to the ADSC for your new airframe (Note 1C)  

 

From 

AIR FORCE INSTRUCTION 36-2107 

ACTIVE DUTY SERVICE COMMITMENTS 

1.2. ADSC-Incurring Events.
Table1.1. Identifies ADSC-incurring events. 

USAF Weapons Instructor Course (WIC) (all AFSCs) 

3 years (see notes 1, 2, 14 and 15) 

1. The following provisions apply:
a. The ADSC for Undergraduate Pilot Training (UPT) will be 10 years effective for those entering UPT on or after 1 October 1999. The ADSC will be served upon graduation and will run concurrently with any other ADSC. The United States Air Force Academy classes of 1998 and 1999, and Air Force Reserve Officer Training Corps (AFROTC) cadets commissioned in Fiscal Year (FY) 1998 and 1999 who were categorized as pilots at EAD entry, will incur an ADSC of 8 years (versus 10 years) upon completion of UPT.
b. All manned or unmanned pilots, navigators, and air battle managers who began aviation service after 30 September 1997 will not incur any additional Advanced Flying Training (AFT)/Instructor Qualification ADSCs which extend beyond 6 or 10 years as applicable, of continuous or cumulative rated service. Rated service begins at the completion of training and awarding of wings for the rated specialty. They will still incur Permanent Change of Station (PCS), Professional Military Education (PME), and other non-AFT related ADSCs.
c. Rated officers who crossflow/retrain into another rated career field (e.g., an air battle manager who crossflows/retrains as a navigator or manned or unmanned pilot), crossflow/retrain to a different weapons system (basic qualification) or aircraft airframe will incur the full ADSC for that training even if that ADSC extends beyond the officer’s 6th or 10th year of rated service.

 

Edited to correct the crossflow note.  Thanks Disco Nav

Edited December 29, 2015 by Wendell

[Disco_Nav963]

13 minutes ago, Wendell said:

WIC ADSC is 3 years, if you are in your original aircraft it can not extend you beyond your Pilot ADSC (10 years). (Note 1b), if you crossflow into a different aircraft prior to WIC you will incur the full ADSC (Note 1C)

The full ADSC for IQT in the new airframe, not the full WIC ADSC. I crossflowed as a young captain, served out my 3 year sentence for Initial Qual in the second jet, and am now a free agent (completed my 6 year sentence for JSUNT two years ago). Going to 16A and used the same chapter and verse you just linked to get AFPC to remove the ADSC message.

[drewpey]

On 12/28/2015 at 1:45 PM, Danger41 said:

What kind of opportunities does it open/close for you as a mid-level captain?

Work and more work.  There's a reason the patch comes with a bullseye.  That being said it's usually interesting work and you'll be the first they call to sink teeth into projects.  Beyond that you'll be the much-needed translator for the CAF-SOF integration.  It's scary how much that is needed on both sides.

Doors I've seen get closed on guys was usually due to short manning of patches in their respective MDS/AFSC.  If you have dreams outside tactics (RAS/PAS, etc.) it should be possible down the road if you do well and let your intentions be known (and timing works out right), but AFSOC will get their return on investment out of you that first three years, so if you have plans before then look elsewhere.

[Danger41]

Cool guys, thanks.  That was kind of what I was getting at drewpey.

 

Thanks all for the info.

[Warrior]

Concur with drewpey. I've been tasked to do a lot of things-some are arguably tactics related, but most have been squarely in the tactics wheelhouse. Nearly all of it has been interesting-very very little boredom.

The doors it will close: if you want to do something that's not on the approved track, it is difficult or impossible to get released by the functional. IE teach at USAFA or go to the 89th - although things like that could open up later in your career.

[Warrior]

I'll also add-go read the previous page of this thread. Rainman's post is still spot on

[reticulous]

Chances at WIC dead?

I'm finishing up my first tour in the F-16, but just got shunted back to 38s for my next assignment.   

I was ENJPPT, DG of the B-course, and did well here (4FLUG a year ago) but I guess SH and it sounds like this was a terrible VML. Is weapons school off the table, now?

Edited April 7, 2016 by reticulous

[Motofalcon]

4 minutes ago, reticulous said:

Chances at WIC dead?

I'm finishing up my first tour in the F-16, but just got shunted back to 38s for my next assignment.   

I was ENJPPT, DG of the B-course, and did well here (4FLUG) but it sounds like this was a terrible VML. Is weapons school off the table, now?

For all I have seen - yes. Sorry. Based on the age/TIS limit (I don't know what it is, but I know it occurs sometime near the end of your second tour, 6-8 years TIS I think) you won't have time to get back to the Viper, become an IP, and become one the wing's top IPs in time to go to WIC.  It's kind of like being a FAIP - no matter the order, an AETC tour kind of ruins your chances. Not to say weirder things haven't happened, and maybe you'll get a waiver, etc, etc, but I think the door is 99.69% closed. I have seen faips go to wic in other airframes (namely C-models) but I think that is because they have a less diverse mission set, so they can get better faster and make the TIS cutoff.  I don't think I've ever seen someone in your situation go (CAF-AETC-CAF); even if you volunteer to get back to the viper right at your 2-year point, because after 2 years you won't be quite as good as you were, strictly based on continuity.  

  However, if you still want it, what you should do is 1-make sure your leadership at UPT and the functional at the porch know of your desire to go back to the jet asap (right at your 2 year time on station point) 2-bust your hump when you do go back to the CAF and let your FS leadership know you want to go to WIC and even if you get no for an answer a couple times, stick with it. 

If none of that works, you can always try to get into a guard/reserve unit who will send you to wic. For what I know, because they are paying for the course, they can send who they want and Big Blue's age/TIS restrictions do not apply. 

Good luck, and I'll see you at PIT...(unless you are going back to SPS)

[brabus]

Truth is your only chance is go to the ARC, then hopefully go to WIC out of there. Many guard Majs have gone throuh and done well. I try to not talk in absolutes, but on this one, theres zero chance on AD. Better you know the facts and dont get a sugar coated half truth.

[brabus]

Dont let this take the winds out of your sails. Work hard in 38s and have a good attitude. Try to look at it positively as a way to learn to teach. if you cant teach well, you wont make it through WIC, if you even get selected to go at all (you wont get pushed, ARC or otherwise, if youre a shitty IP). All is not lost, just the possible path changed, remember that.

Add: i have a couple good friends who were in similar shoes and went as Majors in the guard. So, that should show you the door is not closed. 

Edited April 7, 2016 by brabus