Enlisted to Officer

[Guest gunner08]

Well I'd probably have another 2 years to finish a degree, and I'm 22 right now, turn 23 in November.

[Guest EN_STUD]

If you want to apply for an enlisted ROTC program, everything you need to know it right here. When I applied, this is what I used. My education office was worthless.

https://www.afoats.af.mil/AFROTC/EnlistedCo...mmissioning.asp

[stract]

Don't discount AMS, either. If you want to become an O sooner rather than later, they direct commission into the Guard/Reserve and you are NOT required to have your degree at the time of commissioning (but you must complete within 7 years, I think).

as well as the USAFA

--Palangi

obviously not a grad.

Edited February 23, 2008 by stract

[Riddller]

If you want to apply for an enlisted ROTC program, everything you need to know it right here. When I applied, this is what I used. My education office was worthless.

https://www.afoats.af.mil/AFROTC/EnlistedCo...mmissioning.asp

Ditto.

I checked that site for the first time in March of '02 and now I'm 4 weeks into pilot training! My how the time has flown...

[Guest Ben]

Hi all. I'm wanting to get some advice about becoming a fighter pilot coming from enlisted. I'm 24 years old, and have been active duty for just over a year and a half. My AFSC is 1N431, Signals Intelligence Analyst, and I'm currently stationed at Hickam AFB. I've got an Associates degree in General Business (GPA approx 3.25), and am one class from earning my CCAF degree in Communications Applications Technology. Soon, I will be getting ready to get back into some college classes to pursue my Bachelor's degree. From what I was told when I got to my first base last August, I was told the I would have to be half way through my current tour before I can apply for commissioning programs, so I have until March 2010 until I'm eligible to apply for any of those programs.

As far as specific types of degrees, is there a specific one that is looked for more strongly for piloting, or are most technical degrees accepted? Also, would there be a more advantageous commissioning route to take from enlisted? At the moment I'm drawing a blank as far as any other specific questions. Any advice, tips, etc would be greatly appreciated. Thanks for the time, all.

Ben

[skinny]

First of all, don't have your heart set on getting a pilot slot, much less a fighter. That community is being drawn down dramatically. Apply to be an officer first, then a pilot, then a fighter pilot. Don't be the guy that cries when you don't get what you want. That being said, check out this site first:

https://www.afoats.af.mil/

Lots of good info on various methods of commissioning. Your degree type will probably not have the same weight as your accomplishments while enlisted do. However if it's down to you with an engineering degree or another dude with a basket weaving degree, they would probably favor the engineering/technical degree. I just got picked up for OTS with a Pro Aero degree from ERAU. Very non-technical but apparently it was good enough. Generally UPT slots are given to USAFA first, then ROTC then OTS for whatever the first two can't fill. If UPT is your end goal, start working on a PPL now and get as many flight hours as you can. Go take the AFOQT and blow that shit out of the water. If the scores aren't so great the first time, you can take it a second time but don't screw it up, otherwise you'll need a waiver for your third attempt. If you're thinking about OTS, check out https://www.airforceots.com and search for answers to your many questions. Other than that, get as many XXXX of the Year/Quarter awards as you can and don't screw up! Talk to prior guys you work with, they'll be able to help you out as well. Good luck!

Edited July 6, 2009 by skinny787

[brabus]

Ben, I'd personally recommend ROTC if you're thinking about doing a "normal" 4-yr college career at a university. I knew several prior enlisted guys who had some sort of scholarship from the AF for ROTC that was only available to enlisted (something like SSGT pay while attending college...why wouldn't you go for that!). ROTC will give you a much better chance at a pilot slot than OTS. Also, your major matters ZERO in ROTC when it comes to commissioning or get a pilot slot. Do something you like and DO NOT be another guy who thinks engineering gives you a better chance and end up hating life, failing school, etc. when you could have just done Business or whatever and gotten a pilot slot. Maybe speedy is correct regarding OTS, but that's certainly not the way ROTC is. Food for thought.

[Big Bear]

I agree with brabus. I was enlisted and am now in pilot training. It's a long road and a lot of work, but it's definentally doable. Go ROTC and you'll have a better shot if you keep a good GPA and don't be a douche. It's possible out of OTS, but there you'll be competing with guys with lots of previous flying experience, and the competition is stiff.

Also, you don't have to do a full 4 years in ROTC, if you can graduate in 3, or 2, you can still go through the program. I had my associates and finished ROTC in 2 and a half years.

Good Luck

[Guest Ben]

Hey all, thanks for the advice. I appreciate it. Those links skinny posted have a lot of helpful info. Brabus and bear, you guys both spoke highly of ROTC, there are a few programs that involve going to ROTC. They've all got some major similarities as well as differences.

Brabus, the one you mentioned, "...some sort of scholarship from the AF for ROTC that was only available to enlisted (something like SSGT pay while attending college," is one I was thinking about for a while. It's the Airman Education & Commissioning Program (AECP). That one looks very attractive, as far as not being "disowned" from active duty, and getting paid SSgt pay (especially since I'll probably barely have made SrA by the time I apply). However, that program doesn't get you the commission when you graduate, you still have to go to OTS afterward to get the commission. That being said, it seems like that route may be repetitive, no? Some of the other programs (ASCP, SOAR, and POC-ERP) separate you from active duty, still pays for the college (up to a certain amount per year), but during that time you're not receiving any military pay/allowances/benefits. However, with these programs upon graduation you get commissioned and come back to active duty as 2LT. So, if it's easier to get a pilot slot through ROTC, how would AECP benefit (or not) if after graduating you still have to go to OTS? Bear, if you don't mind my asking, which program did you use to go from enlisted to now being in pilot training?

[brabus]

Are you sure about AECP? I know both guys at my school received SSGT pay (no BAH, etc...just base pay) and they both commissioned with the rest of us. They did the exact program we did, nothing more, nothing less. Also, I would still consider those scholarship programs that you separate with. Yes you're not receiving pay, but you are getting most of your college paid for. These days if you can get your education paid for, do not pass up that opportunity. Even if you had to get a part time job to help pay for rent or whatever, it's still far worth it (and that's something thousands of college students have to do).

[Guest Ben]

Are you sure about AECP? I know both guys at my school received SSGT pay (no BAH, etc...just base pay) and they both commissioned with the rest of us. They did the exact program we did, nothing more, nothing less. Also, I would still consider those scholarship programs that you separate with. Yes you're not receiving pay, but you are getting most of your college paid for. These days if you can get your education paid for, do not pass up that opportunity. Even if you had to get a part time job to help pay for rent or whatever, it's still far worth it (and that's something thousands of college students have to do).

Unless the info I pulled from online is mistaken, what I said about AECP is accurate. Though it is confusing how you said those guys were getting paid SSgt pay and still commissioned there with everyone else. Either way, I'm definitely keeping an open mind to any of the other programs. And, as I said in first post, I'll soon have my CCAF completed. I just need one class (communications/speech) and to get my 5 level. The class is easy enough to CLEP, and my 5 level should come this December. After that I'll only need two years of school to get my Bachelor's degree. So, if I could knock it out with ROTC and get commissioned from there, that'd be awesome. Though, if AECP would work better (even if I'd possibly have to go to OTS after) I'd do that as well. Tomorrow I'm going to go to the base education office and talk with someone there, and see what they've got to say. Sort out that AECP issue... If it's how I found it, there may be another program that combines the two and lets you get paid and commission after finishing the degree. Out of curiosity, how was going into ROTC from being prior enlisted? What is done during ROTC?

[M2]

Brabus

Ben is correct, this straight from the source...

The Airman Education and Commissioning Program (AECP) offers active duty enlisted personnel the opportunity to earn a commission while completing their bachelor's degree. Students will attend OTS upon completion of their bachelor's degree and this will be their source of commissioning. AECP nursing students graduate, take NCLEX, then attend COT.

Those selected for AECP REMAIN ON ACTIVE DUTY and are administratively assigned to an Air Force ROTC detachment. Their duty is to attend school as a full-time college student. In addition to full pay and benefits, AECP cadets are provided with a tuition/fees scholarship of up to $15,000 per year and an annual textbook allowance of $600. Students may not pay the difference to attend higher cost schools. AECP cadets may participate in the program for 1-3 years, depending on their major, prior academic preparation, and age limitations. During the program, they attend school year-round to include summer terms.

AECP is not an avenue for Undergraduate Flying Training.

Cheers! M2

[Boxhead]

Just some things to ponder from an old mustang...

DO NOT do any type of program that you get "selected" for from your enlistment if it means you do not serve a full 4 years and 1 day as an enlisted guy. No amount of money they may pay you in the two years of college will make up for the 10 years of O-1, 2 &3E pay difference.

Do the following:

-Pick the school/AFROTC Det you want to attend.

-Pick your degree

--Get with admissions...find out haw many transfer credits they will take, and how many CLEP/DANTES they will take, then MAX them out.

-Have fun your remaining time in the service, drink, have sex, party, read, whatever floats your boat.

-Find out state laws on un-employment...most likely, you will qualify for it because you let your enlistment run out, also very likely is that they consider ROTC a "training program", and you will qualify for unemployment the entire two years you are "progressing" through it. Don't let people say you are abusing the system, covering a gap in income so you can then make more $$ and thereby pay more taxes back into the system is exactly what it is there for.

- Query the AFROTC Det on probability of a 2-yr scholarship...as a prior e, should be no problem.

- Get out...Enroll in the college/ROTC, get the scholarship, go get unemployment, take your GI bill

--You will be making well over $2k a month for going to school full time. If you live at home/with friends, you can make that WAY far, I managed to support my wife and I on it...we just ate ramen a bunch and drank box wine.

IM me is you have questions or want help drawing out a plan if these suggestions make sense to you.

It's all technique though, whatever you choose, good luck!

Edited July 8, 2009 by Boxhead

[Guest Enlisted4nowofficerlater]

I'am on the same situation as you are, i am currently enlisted and busting my ass to finish my degree and kicking ass during my enlisted career. I am also 1 class away from my CCAF but that doesn't mean i'll only have 2 more years of school once i get it, the CCAF is only good if you attend to any on the schools participating on the AU-ABC program. Basically, those schools work with military people by taking all your CCAF credits which means that you only have to do 2 more years of school or 60 credits and you will have your degree. All those schools offer online degrees and they are accredited but not as prestigious as some other institutions. So I apologize if I burst your bubble, but if you are planning to transfer all your CCAF credits to a school then you might want to look more into it, they will take a lot of them but for the most part they are going to take care of the electives and probably some of your minor courses. Remember that different schools have different pre-reqs, for example: even with my CCAF in hand, i will still need one more Class in communications on top of the 2 that i already have, 2 more in humanities on top of the one that i already have, 3 more math classes on top of the one that i have, 3 natural sciences from which i had none and 2 more social science classes on top of the one that i already have. After taking all this classes which takes about a year, i can finally transfer to troy university as a junior which means that totally i still have about 3 more years of school, i have actually taken quite a few of the classes i described and that 's why i'm almost ready to transfer to troy.I just wanted to make sure you are aware of that. As an enlisted member i would advise you to bust your ass as much as you can, fight for senior airman below the zone by doing as much as you can and by winning awards, all that weights heavily when applying for OTS if you decide to go that route, either way. good luck

[brabus]

Ben is correct, this straight from the source...

He sure is...well, then those two guys must have been on some other type of program b/c they definitely did ROTC "as normal" with the rest of us and commissioned with us. However, neither went to rated fields, so don't know if that had anything to do with it (they didn't want to fly anyways). Honestly I'd probably just do 2 yrs of ROTC direct to a commission/pilot slot, even if it meant separating from AD and getting a scholarship/working through college like most dudes out of high school do. I don't know about any "go to OTS after college" program, but that just sounds like it'd be less of a pilot slot "guarantee" than ROTC would. Remember your goal is to become an officer and fly...what are you willing to do to achieve those goals?

[Guest Ben]

I'am on the same situation as you are, i am currently enlisted and busting my ass to finish my degree and kicking ass during my enlisted career. I am also 1 class away from my CCAF but that doesn't mean i'll only have 2 more years of school once i get it, the CCAF is only good if you attend to any on the schools participating on the AU-ABC program. Basically, those schools work with military people by taking all your CCAF credits which means that you only have to do 2 more years of school or 60 credits and you will have your degree. All those schools offer online degrees and they are accredited but not as prestigious as some other institutions. So I apologize if I burst your bubble, but if you are planning to transfer all your CCAF credits to a school then you might want to look more into it, they will take a lot of them but for the most part they are going to take care of the electives and probably some of your minor courses. Remember that different schools have different pre-reqs, for example: even with my CCAF in hand, i will still need one more Class in communications on top of the 2 that i already have, 2 more in humanities on top of the one that i already have, 3 more math classes on top of the one that i have, 3 natural sciences from which i had none and 2 more social science classes on top of the one that i already have. After taking all this classes which takes about a year, i can finally transfer to troy university as a junior which means that totally i still have about 3 more years of school, i have actually taken quite a few of the classes i described and that 's why i'm almost ready to transfer to troy.I just wanted to make sure you are aware of that. As an enlisted member i would advise you to bust your ass as much as you can, fight for senior airman below the zone by doing as much as you can and by winning awards, all that weights heavily when applying for OTS if you decide to go that route, either way. good luck

Hey, I appreciate the info. Me being a newb to the AF, I was under the impression that the CCAF was an accredited Associates, and it would be like my other Associates to move on from it to the bachelors. Sadly, as it is, I already went up for BTZ. I busted my ass trying to make my package look as good as possible while juggling a JQR for work, as well as CDCs. Sadly I didn't get picked up for it. But My flight (and ex flight CC and squadron CC (both PCSed)) know I'll work my ass off to try to earn something. Good luck to you, trying to make your way. Thanks for the info.

[Guest Enlisted4nowofficerlater]

Hey, I appreciate the info. Me being a newb to the AF, I was under the impression that the CCAF was an accredited Associates, and it would be like my other Associates to move on from it to the bachelors. Sadly, as it is, I already went up for BTZ. I busted my ass trying to make my package look as good as possible while juggling a JQR for work, as well as CDCs. Sadly I didn't get picked up for it. But My flight (and ex flight CC and squadron CC (both PCSed)) know I'll work my ass off to try to earn something. Good luck to you, trying to make your way. Thanks for the info.

Don't get me wrong, the CCAF is an accredited institution but basically what they do is take whatever training you get during tech school, turn it into college credits (non graded) and ask you for a few core classes and you will have a associates, if you look at your training record in the af portal, you will see that some of the credits you got are kind of retarded, for example, i am an x-ray tech and i have some credits on radiographic positioning, digital imaging, dark room operations among others. Credits like that are only going to take care of your electives and probably help you out with a military science minor. Most of the schools require you different classes during the first two years of schools, some degree programs put more emphasis on communications, some on social sciences, some on math etc... it's still something great to have, and i personally didn't care about taking extra classes because first, i'm not age critical, i'm only 22 so i have a few years to fininsh my degree and kick ass. Second, because i'll do whatever it takes to achieve the ultimate goal which is becoming an Air Force Officer, a pilot preferably. About the BTZ part, it sucks that you didn't get it but there are still lots of things that you can achieve, such as Airman of the quarter for squadron, wing, command, Air Force and universe if possible jk. I was lucky enought to be selected for BTZ and that helped me out with other things but i'm still going to bust my butt until the day I pin those wings, and ones i pin them, the real self ass kicking is going to start. look at it as if nothing you do is ever enought. If you get a chance, ask your leadership to send you to a rotation with base honor guard, it's not only a great experience that brings feelings of accomplishment, but if you are good enought, you can walk out with an achievement medal, in my opinion that was one of the easiest ways to get a medal, and now everybody at work looks up to me for open ranks, retirement ceremonies and things like that give you a lot of face time and help put yourself out there in the eyes of your leadership. And remember that if the Air Force says no, there are other branches that might say yes, hell i would even fly helos in the army, as long as i'm flying, even though technically Helos don't fly (they beat air into submission) no offense to Helo pilots... JK well, good luck and never give up.

[Guest Halovaulter]

Currently Enlisted Active Duty

I'm getting ready to begin applying for OTS but ran into a bump. Come to find out that because I received a Selective Reenlistment Bonus (SRB) when I reenlisted in Oct 2008, I cannot apply for an SRB waiver until I have served half of my enlistment which is 3 years. I thought I would have the option of paying the bonus back but was told otherwise by the Education Office.

For background information......I have taken the AFOQT and scored P-95 N-94 A-76 V-39 Q-95 (I know shitty verbal). I also received a scholarship from the Air Force to pursue my Private Pilots License through the Travis Aero Club. I will be completing that by Oct 1. I will also be receiving a letter of recommendation from the Wing Commander b/c of this. Bach in Professional Aeronautics with 3.6 GPA. I still need to take the TBAS but was told to wait til after I get my private pilots license. As far as leadership and whole person concept, I have outperformed all my peers in leadership and duty performance. I also made E-6 in 6.5 years.

So due to me receiving a bonus in Oct 2008, education office said I have to wait until Oct 2011 to apply which would put me in age critical at 28.1. They also told me I do not have the option of still applying and paying the bonus back if accepted. I started doing my own research and was wondering if and Exception to Policy (ETP) letter is the same thing as a waiver? Since I'm ineligible for a waiver (Due to AFI), can I still write a ETP for this situation? Have you guys heard of anyone with this problem as well? I dont see receiving a bonus as being a good reason to delay my career progression especially not having the option of paying the bonus back. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks

So what are my chances. My scores are not as good as your guys. P-95 N-94 A-76 V-39 Q-95. No TBAS yet and will have 50+ PPL hours. Probably going to wait til next board due to needing a Time on Station waiver.

Lance

[Guest PanceLeak]

As far as specific types of degrees, is there a specific one that is looked for more strongly for piloting, or are most technical degrees accepted? Also, would there be a more advantageous commissioning route to take from enlisted?

Boxhead has pretty much hit the nail on the head. During my enlistment I applied for the AECP program. I had all my ducks in a row and there were 4 of us going up for the program at my duty station. Only one of us got accepted and part of me believes I didn't get in because of the major I had declared. I chose to declare a politcal science degree, busniness admin if I remember right. The kid that got picked up had aero space or some other tech degree.

I ended up separating at the end my 6 year enlistment and just kind of happened into the ROTC detachment. I really didn't have any plans on going back in, but funny how things work out. For whatever reason I was always under the impression that ROTC cadets were on scholarship and while that is the case with some, pretty much anyone can enroll in the program and give it a whirl.

I could have graduated in 2-2.5 years but in chose to push my graduation out and be a 3 year cadet. The two year option is very competitive from what I hear. I pretty much stuck to the the 12-14 hour semester load and stayed active in the detachment. I worked a little part time but mainly lived off the G.I. bill. I was fortunate enough to recieve a pilot slot and commission.

I ended up getting my degree in History, which I really enjoyed. So don't think you have to have a tech degree to get a slot. In fact that old saying...Poly-sci if you want to fly comes to mind as a majority of my class mates were politcal science majors.

I don't know how much time you have left on your enlistment but from my experience I would say the best way to go about getting into upt is to talk to a ROTC detachment at a school you're interested in attending and see if you can get in. Keep that in mind and when it comes to separating make a decision.

Everything kind of fell into place for myself so I've got nothing but good things to say about my time in ROTC and that avenue for getting a commission and potentially some wings. Let me know if you've got an specifics I might be able to help out with. The process may have changed since I was considereing AECP since that was nearly 8 years ago now.

Edited July 17, 2009 by PanceLeak

[HU&W]

Ben,

I've been down the road you're on. It was long and bumpy, but I had a great time. Since I'm married with kids, I decided to stay in and use TA for my bachelors. I did OTS as soon as I could and ended up with a non-rated job. A few years later, I applied for a pilot slot and am currently at pilot training. If I was single, I probably would have taken the ROTC path. There are fewer roadblocks and going to a University would be a blast. The new GI bill sweetens it even more. My path worked for me though, and I had a great time along the way.

Good Luck

[Guest Andrew2890]

I am a little confused by all the programs out there along with how my new GI bill will affect everything. First of all is there a way to get a gauranteed slot as a fighter pilot. Im working on my PPL and i am considering all option for obtaining my Aeronautical engineering degree. Such as LEAD for the academy, some kind of "seperate and go ROTC", "stay in and go ROTC", and everything in between. Has anyone in here crossed over from enlisted to fighter pilot with some info on any programs or anything? Thank you

V/r

A1C Johnson Andrew M

[HU&W]

I am a little confused by all the programs out there along with how my new GI bill will affect everything. First of all is there a way to get a gauranteed slot as a fighter pilot. Im working on my PPL and i am considering all option for obtaining my Aeronautical engineering degree. Such as LEAD for the academy, some kind of "seperate and go ROTC", "stay in and go ROTC", and everything in between. Has anyone in here crossed over from enlisted to fighter pilot with some info on any programs or anything? Thank you

V/r

A1C Johnson Andrew M

Hi Andrew,

If you would like to make a career of flying for the Air Force, a few others have discussed it. You can get lots of good information here.

From what I can read in your post, you're going down the right road. Your education office will be your best friend in helping you down the path. Here's the basics.

0. Be physically qualified in every way for pilot training.

1. Kick butt in your current job.

1a. Try to score an incentive ride in a fighter to see if you really want it.

1b. Awards and stuff will really help your resume for applying for a commission/pilot training.

2. Get flying hours.

3. Get a degree. Have a high GPA. Your major doesn't matter.

3a. Academy will give you the best odds of landing a pilot slot if you are physically capable.

3b. ROTC is a good option (possibly the easiest/most fun, but we all have our own opinions), especially with the new GI bill.

3c. Degree on AD and then OTS is always an option, but there's tons of competition with other priors.

4. Study your butt off for the AFOQT.

5. Ace the AFOQT.

6. Ace the TBAS.

7. Get a pilot slot.

8. Be the best at pilot training without hurting your friends.

9. Be lucky enough to have a fighter in your drop at graduation.

10. Pick the fighter.

APPENDIX 1. Impress a few important people along the way to write you letters of recommendation.

APPENDIX 2. Have lots of fun along the way. Keep an open mind at all times.

APPENDIX 3. Do it fast before you get too old.

Good luck...

Edited August 16, 2009 by HU&W

[FlyingBull]

Andrew,

Like others have said you should do a few searches since much of what you are looking for is already there. Other than that are you set on getting an Aerospace engineering degree? Unless you want to be a Test Pilot, you don't need a technical degree to fly and I've seen more than one dream crushed by engineering majors (very hard to be competitive in grades versus a Business, History, or Poly Sci guy). Also as the others have said....focusing just on fighters may get some crap thrown your way because it sounds like you're saying you're "too good" fo heavies, bombers, or helos. You probably don't mean it that way...but on the internet assumptions can get made fast.

I was not prior enlisted, but I know of at least one personally who went the ROTC route while still in, got a pilot slot, and is now a couple months from UPT.

[stract]

in all seriousness, the only "guaranteed" way to get the fighter of your choice is to get hired by a guard/reserve unit that flies them, and then convince them to send you to UPT. Good luck!

[Seriously]

Andrew,

If you want to go ROTC or the Academy, you'll have to separate from the AF. If you get your bachelor's while on Active Duty, then you have the option of applying to OTS/Guard/Reserves or separating then doing ROTC while completing a master's degree. Both have their pros and cons, but you can search the site for that. You'll learn a lot more that way than us just spoon feeding you information.

edit: I stand corrected. Thanks flyingbull.

Edited August 17, 2009 by Seriously