Enlisted to Officer

[Riddller]

Unfortunately, to apply for the current ECP's, you do need an ACT/SAT scores (but I'm not sure about the highschool stuff).

Out of curiosity, does the AF refer to prior-E zero's as 'Mustangs' also?

[barney]

The only cathch with the airmen to the academy program is that you can't be married or have kids or anything. One must be footloose and fancy free

[Riddller]

Yeah, you can be married to do ASCP, but no kids.

[Guest Amn Spence]

I'm a crew chief on a-10's/predators right now and I've been flying with family friends since I was five. It's been my dream to be a fighter pilot ever since. I'm coming up on my first year of a four year enlistment and have two years left at Embry-Riddle to finish my Professional Aeronautics degree. I also plan to start working on my PPL here in the fall and have it knocked out as soon as possible. I was wondering with the degree, PPL, extreme love for flying, and a lot of volunteer work...what my chances look like if I put a package together. I figure if I can't make it flying fighters...I'm going to separate and fly commercial but eitherway - I'll end up in a cockpit. I just had my PHA/Dental and they said my vision is 20/20 which is great. Am I on a good path to getting a nice package together? Any advice would be great...

[Guest AV8RAHL]

I'm a crew chief on a-10's/predators right now and I've been flying with family friends since I was five. It's been my dream to be a fighter pilot ever since. I'm coming up on my first year of a four year enlistment and have two years left at Embry-Riddle to finish my Professional Aeronautics degree. I also plan to start working on my PPL here in the fall and have it knocked out as soon as possible. I was wondering with the degree, PPL, extreme love for flying, and a lot of volunteer work...what my chances look like if I put a package together. I figure if I can't make it flying fighters...I'm going to separate and fly commercial but eitherway - I'll end up in a cockpit. I just had my PHA/Dental and they said my vision is 20/20 which is great. Am I on a good path to getting a nice package together? Any advice would be great...

I got a pilot slot in the Guard with the same degree, plus I continued on and got the ERAU MAS. Your chances are good.

ADVICE:

Get your Initial Flying Class 1 Physical done now, and don't ever go to the doctor and complain about any medical problems, except if you wake up in the morning and you can't remember your name or your WANG fell off. Don't get in trouble and get good grades, you'll do fine.

[Guest Sparky]

I'm a crew chief on a-10's/predators right now and I've been flying with family friends since I was five. It's been my dream to be a fighter pilot ever since. I'm coming up on my first year of a four year enlistment and have two years left at Embry-Riddle to finish my Professional Aeronautics degree. I also plan to start working on my PPL here in the fall and have it knocked out as soon as possible. I was wondering with the degree, PPL, extreme love for flying, and a lot of volunteer work...what my chances look like if I put a package together. I figure if I can't make it flying fighters...I'm going to separate and fly commercial but eitherway - I'll end up in a cockpit. I just had my PHA/Dental and they said my vision is 20/20 which is great. Am I on a good path to getting a nice package together? Any advice would be great...

One thing to consider, active duty pilot slots from OTS are very difficult to come by relatively speaking. You would have more luck applying for one of the many ROTC commissioning programs and temporarily separating from active duty for 1-2 years and getting a pilot slot that way. That is what I did and it worked out very well for me. If you are interested in the Guard/Reserve route...start "rushing" a unit immediately, they usually hire from w/in or dudes they know. Good luck, let me know if you have more questions on the many different ROTC programs. I am President of a foundation that awards scholarships/money to prior enlisted Airmen contracted (enrolled) in AFROTC..so I have a lot of contacts with various Universities.

[Guest AceRascal]

Hello, I'm back, dont know if any of you will remember me or not, but I used to browse these forums alot durring highschool, while i was in jrotc.. I sat back and viewed the forums like many of you advised me to do, and since then, no one has heard from me (or talked to me like trash, so thanks to everyone that gave me this very useful advice lol) ... well anyways, im currently enrolled at a junior college, and now I have the decision of joining the rotc detachment at ucla, or just enlisting. We all know the route that follows ROTC, but is it possible to become a pilot after enlisting? I was going to just use the AECP program, and attend college while enlisted.. Which route seems more plausible?

I am leaning towards just enlisting, because I need an extra push and some motivation in my life right now, things aren't going great. So another question of this topic, is suggestions on enlisted jobs, that have easier access to becoming a pilot and/or that will be fun, and get me in or near the pretty birds.. My first choice would be an aerial gunner apprentice, any suggestions?

Edited October 17, 2007 by AceRascal

[Guest JeremyG81]

I am currently enlisted and trying to get a pilot slot. From the research I have been doing it seems harder to get one coming from enlisted active duty than from ROTC. Not saying it is impossible but I here that active duty get the leftovers from the Academy and ROTC. Its usually around 100-120 a year. Needless to say it is very competitive, but not impossible. However if you have some issues in your life maybe it would be best to come in enlisted. If that is the route that you choose I would definately choose something that peaks your interest. Also, once you are enlisted you are unable to go to school until you finish your CDC's (career develpment courses). Sometimes that take almost a year. I am a crew chief on the A-10 right now and I enjoy my job. If I could do it over again I would chose some sort of aircrew (flight engineer, gunner, loadmaster, etc).

[Guest ATB]

Ditto on the above. I'm lucky to have gotten a pilot slot, but ROTC is a much easier and faster path to wings. If you know you want to be an Officer, and as an Officer, you want to fly, then consider this...

In ROTC, most of what determines whether you get a slot in either SUPT or SUNT is your commander's ranking.

Should you choose to enlist and apply to OTS, most of what determines whether you get a slot are your scores (GPA, PCSM, AFOQT) and flying hours. Yes there is a "whole person concept" but high scores and lots of flying hours will keep you in the game at the board while you are racked and stacked against everybody else. If you have an average or below average gpa in college (like I did when I was an idiot and not focused on my grades), then you will have a harder time going the OTS route. By "average" or "below average" I mean anything below a 3.0 gpa.

If you're going to enlist, either for money, experience, or "push and motivation", I'd enlist in an ANG unit, and do as well as you can on the ASVAB. This will will help make you eligible for a job where you're either working on the unit's airplanes or flying in them. This will also help you learn about the airframe and will help you decide if flying is truly what you want to do. And if your unit happens to be one that hires from within, and is holding a UPT hiring board, you'll have an advantage there.

My $0.02 - study hard - Good luck!

Edited October 16, 2007 by ATB

[brabus]

I know I don't have total SA on the enlisted to pilot gig, but IMO it seems like a dumb idea to enlist knowing full well you want to be an officer/pilot some day. If that's your goal, go for it NOW, don't wait. Enlisting is a good idea if you're not sure what you want or know you want to do the enlisted track. If you're sure about wanting to be an officer/pilot, don't waste time getting to that goal. If it's about money, that's what low-interest-rate student loans are for. Compared to ROTC, it is EXTREMELY competitive to not only get the AECP type stuff to be commissioned, but get a pilot slot. I can't give you odds, but just to make some up...ROTC - 1 in 10 chance of pilot, enlisted route - 1 in 1000 chance. I know those numbers are pulled out of my ass (sts), but they should give you the overall perspective. Choose wisely.

[M2]

Sorry guys, but I disagree. It doesn't sound like AceRascal (and I would change that name, sounds too much like "AssRascal") doesn't know what he wants in life ("I need an extra push and some motivation in my life right now, things aren't going great"). Sounds very familiar as it is exactly how I was after graduating high school. After a few weeks of stocking grocery stores at night, I knew I needed to get the hell out of Dodge and bee-lined it to the USAF recruiter's office. I didn't even get a guaranteed job just so I could get on active duty quicker. After four years I grew up enough that I knew what I needed to do to get through college. I also knew I wanted to get back in the USAF. It was a tremendous advantage when I started college, and I knew a lot of people who bailed simply because they had no clue about their lives.

Getting commissioned while enlisted is tough, but I believe the majority of OTSers are prior guys and gals. Someone call pull the stats from AFPC, I am not bothered. But if you are truly unsure of what you want to do with your life, the four years you dedicate to your country while enlisted will never be time not well spent, even if you decide the USAF is not the career path for you. And if it is, you will have a definite leg up on all your AFROTC brethren.

As long as time isn't running against you (e.g. you won't get commissioned without requiring an age waiver), I think enlisted may just be your best option. It beats flunking out of collage and AFROTC, which will be a lot harder to recover from. Plus, take advantage of the educational opportunities being offered to get a jump start on your degree!

Cheers! M2

[Guest Robes]

Agreed with M2. There were 8 of us in my UPT class that were prior enlisted (2 ANG). Doable, but it will take some hard work, but nothing worth anything in life is easy!

[Guest engineMAC]

I can't give you odds, but just to make some up...ROTC - 1 in 10 chance of pilot, enlisted route - 1 in 1000 chance. I know those numbers are pulled out of my ass (sts), but they should give you the overall perspective. Choose wisely.

Pretty close to the truth, ive been enlisted for almost two years now and am seeing just how hard it really is to get there. Even if you excel at every level of your enlistment ( BMT, tech school, CDCs, whatever) and work your ass off every day, you still only have two stripes on, and have little influence anywhere. I love my job, dont get me wrong, there is not many 20 year olds that can say that the make F-16s stay in the sky, but seeing those Lt.s walk across the street every day and climb into their jets really gets to you.

There are a few different options if you do decide that you want to follow through. 1. AECP, like someone mentioned, is not what you are looking for. There is only a few degrees that are offered through that program (nursing, math, and a couple other technical degrees) and on the fine print of the program it says, NOT AN OPTION FOR FLIGHT TRAINING, in other words, you cant be accepted to UPT if you commission with AECP. 2 ASCP, which is similar to AECP except you can be selected to flight training after, you will be separated from active duty and placed on reserve status to finish your degree and then go to OTS, extremely selective. 3. LEAD, is a commander initiated program that will get you an AFROTC scholarship or appointment to the USAFA prep school. 4. SOAR, is what most enlisted guys try for if they dont want to go to OTS or the Academy, it will earn you an ROTC scholarship for two or four years depending on how much school you have left. and finally 5. Direct appointment to the Academy and Prep School, you can research what to expect at the Academy, but this is an option if you have an immense desire to fly, a lot of heart for the Air Force, and meet the age requirements ( must be not be 23 or older in June of your entry date, Prep school pushes this back 1 year to 22). This is the option that I am currently pursuing so if you want more info about the process let me know.

Since you mentioned that you had the opportunity to just join ROTC now, that seems like the best bet for you since that is most likely where you will end up if you enlist, except now you wont have to work your ass off and get lucky to get there. Going enlisted does give you a greater sense of purpose and drive, but I have seen firsthand that ROTC will do about the same job for you. If you do meet the age requirements of the Academy, and have a desire to earn your commission through that avenue then I HIGHLY reccomend enlisting. They leave 85 slots open each year to the Academy for active duty airman and the DONT FILL THOSE SLOTS!! So, my best wishes to you in pursuing your dream, it has all been done before, so you know that it is not impossible. The thing about being enlisted is that you will pretty much be on your own trying to get there, if you dig hard, do your research, and never give up then its bound to happen. Good luck man.

[Guest AceRascal]

Any suggested jobs if I did enlist, that would get me closest to the birds, where I can get more inside knowledge, and "leg-ins" ect? I was thinking maybe In-Flight refueling, and be a Boom Operater, Loadmaster, Aerial Gunner, and/or Battle management systems..

Also to M2, it just seems out of reach go to ROTC at ucla. I am living from friends to friends house, no parental support, been trying to get a job, but its hard to get a job out here, I wouldnt be able to commute out to the city either.. Not trying to make excuses, just sometimes your circumstances can start to direct your path of actions. In the end I know only I can achieve my goals, me alone. Enlisting would ease some of the troubles of mine, and get me on my feet. Although the enlisted route is more difficult, it seems to be my only option.

[brabus]

Sounds like you have good reasons for enlistment. Have you thought about student loans to pay for school/living? You may qualify for FAFSA...in which case the rates are ridiculously low and you don't have to start paying them off until 6 months after grad/commissioning. You even have further option to defer payment. I recommend looking into that avenue before you give up just b/c you don't have a lot of money to pay for school/living. I'm not bashing enlistment by any means, but if you know what you want, go for it and use student loans as a means to get there. Not to mention you could get a scholarship from ROTC and then you're really set. Money should not be the deciding factor (student loans are not a bad thing); take the cost of school/living out of the equation and then decide w/ the remaining variables if enlistment is still a better option.

[M2]

AR

I would have never made it through college had I gone after high school. I was only lucky in that I realized that, and I decided that instead of being a buttboy for Winn Dixie for the rest of my life, I instead walked into an Air Force recruiter's office and signed on the dotted line. My financial situation wasn't bad, I just wasn't mature enough for college at the time. There was a community college within a stone's throw of where I went to high school, I guess 75% of my graduating class went there and 95% of them flunked out. I was lucky enough (I like to call it smart enough, be to be honest it was more luck than brains!) to go the USAF route instead of following all the sheep.

Getting a degree and a commission is a longterm goal, and it is obtainable but you have to have patience and persistance. The biggest thing holding you back is yourself. Enlisting for four years until you get yourself on track is a good idea. I highly value my enlisted time, and I like to think I was a better officer because of it. I did my four years and ended up doing another year and a half in the Reserves when I went to college. Technically, I never left the service from my first day of basic training (26 years ago this Friday) until I retired in 2006; and I can honestly say that despite the tons of BS that may have come and gone during that time, I wouldn't trade one second of it for the world.

As for jobs, the ones you listed are good if you can get into them. Aircraft maintenance is another good field you may consider. Not the most glamorous, but you get hands-on experience that will serve you well when you later go to fly them.

Best of luck to you whatever you do!

Cheers! M2

[Hansel]

I will second the "GO ANG" route. Since you mentioned UCLA I assume you are near LA, there are at least a couple of units in the area. I don't know much about California so you can check out the exact spots for yourself @ goang.com. I was in a similar boat as you 10 years ago, college was fun but I lacked the motivation to apply myself. I enlisted in the guard, got my degree (paid for by the ANG) and got to work an awsome job in the process. Not to mention the fact that if you get into a flying unit (obviously highly recomended but not required) you will be hanging out with the dudes who will be hiring you in a few years. They will see how hard you have worked, you dedication, etc and it will undoubtedly reflect when the hiring board makes a decision.

As far as enlisting AD, I know a couple of guys from UPT that were prior A.D. Enlisted and they definitely had a more difficult time getting to OTS/UPT than ROTC or Zoo guys. Having said that, they are at UPT so it isn't impossible. One final thing to think about is that you can always join, spend the minimum (4-6 years) and then try and find a guard unit to apply to if the active duty route isn't working out.

Bottom line is that if you are willing to work hard enough (as many of the dudes on here can tell you from their experiences) nothing is impossible in the Air Force. If you want to be a pilot bad enough you won't go wrong with any of your options, therefore if gaining some maturity and finding a different path for your life as an airman is what you think you need, go for it.

[Boxhead]

There is another painfully obvious route (well variation of the route) that no one has mentioned.

Do 4 years enlisted...then just get out. Simple. No competition.

Take as much college as you can while you are in...focus on GenED classes that will easily transfer.

Pick a major you like and a school that has AFROTC.

Get accepted at the school and join ROTC. Again, no competition. (well, usually)

As a Prior-E, there are a few things you can statistically count on...you will do well in college, you will get an ROTC scholarship and you will be very high on the CC ranking. Granted, those assumptions are based on you not being a slug, brain-dead or un-motivated. (e.g....better shots at getting that pilot slot than the average straight-to-college person)

Here is a few more nice things:

You will get the MGIB...around a grand a month I think.

You qualify for unemployment and can receive it as long as you are in ROTC

99% chance of at least a 2 year scholarship...that should be about all you need.

O-1E

Basically, you get 4 years of experience and maturity, then your college paid for and approx $2k a month in spending money for going to school full time.

Just some thoughts. It's all technique though.

[M2]

Box

Although I didn't explicitly state it, that is exactly the route I did. Four years enlisted, went to college and joined AFROTC (plus did a year and a half of Reserves until I signed my contract), then graduated and got commissioned. However, that was a very long time ago so I can't share any insights on the competitiveness of AFROTC nowadays.

The ANG suggestion is a good one, if you can swing it. It may not be a fulltime gig, and if you need money, that may be a problem. But for getting your foot in the door there is probably no better route, especially if you get with a unit flying what you want to eventually fly. Had an AFROTC bud from college do that, he was having problems in school so he switched to another college and joined a FANG unit in the same town. He made a good name for himself at the squadron, so once he completed his degree he was pretty much a shoe-in for a UPT slot. It was a sweet gig, first he got to fly Vipers and later the squadron converted to Eagles. Who knows what he would've got had he stayed in AFROTC and later went to UPT...

Cheers! M2

[Guest engineMAC]

Any suggested jobs if I did enlist, that would get me closest to the birds, where I can get more inside knowledge, and "leg-ins" ect?

Im a jet engine mechanic at Luke AFB and it is seriously sweet. Its badass knowing you can rip a 3 million dollar engine down to nothing, build it up and then watch it rip off the earth the next day. Maintenance is where its at if you ask me. Other cool jobs, flying jobs are awesome like Loadmaster but I can gaurantee that you wont get Aerial Gunner. If you really want to get close to some amazing aircraft become a Crew Chief. You get the flightline experience, be around jets all day, get to talk to pilots everyday, get some TDYs every now and then, and possible get a few incentive flights if you kick ass.

Some other enlistment tips, dont ever let up. I have seen too many airmen go hardcore in basic and tech school, and then when they get to their base they turn in to dirtbags. Remember what you are doing this for and maintain excellence at every level. Good luck man.

[The Kayla]

Ace -

This is Kayla's husband. She insisted I reply because she thinks I have a lot of insight to share on this topic (she's a crazy person though - heck, she married me!). I've walked the path you are deciding; to give you a little preface, I start UPT groundschool in three months, earned my commission back in March (OTS), and enlisted as a C-5 Crew Chief back in 1998 right after graduating high school.

Reading the previous posts, I would say M2 is right on in his first couple of posts, but I'll reiterate anyways. When I graduated from HS, I was an unmotivated schmuck. I had awesome test scores (well, compared to my school at least) but below-average grades and was not motivated for college. On top of that, I was ready to get the heck out of dodge anyways... I was not a big fan of small town NE Washington and was almost ready to drop out my Junior year from frustration. I knew I wanted to be a pilot and figured if I enlisted first, I could work towards my degree down the road w/ my benefits and get a cool enlisted flying job in the meantime. I told my recruiter, "I don't care what job I have, as long as I'm flying."

He replied with, "Well, Crew Chiefs fly!"

That's only half true. I did spend three years as a Flying Crew Chief, but what I wasn't told (and didn't know to research) was that FCCs are only 5-levels or higher and usually at least SrA. I started flying as an A1C that had been selected for Below-the-Zone, the early-SrA promotion. I did five years as enlisted active duty, flying for the last 2.5, and then another 3 years as a reservist (but only flying for the first six months) so I could finish my degree. Here's my take on the enlisted-to-aviator idea:

The closer you are to a flying job as an enlisted guy, the harder it will be to get your degree. Plain and simple. The AF is about flying airplanes around the world and that means mobility, which school is not really compatible with. I took about four extended-campus Embry-Riddle classes at Travis AFB before I started flying and not a single one after that. That said, the first two years of your enlistment that you aren't allowed to go to college will still net you a year's worth (or more) of college credits. You'll earn hours for your tech school, your upgrade training, leadership schools (if you are selected), etc. On top of that, if you can get a 50% on a multiple choice test, you have the opportunity to test out of almost all of your general education classes for FREE. I have over a year's worth of college from testing out (I believe 36 semester hours to be exact). The tests (CLEP and DANTES, available as a civilian too but about $100 a pop) and CCAF credits-for-training got me my AS degree at my five year mark. The AS coupled with my GI Bill and student loans got me my expensive BS degree from Embry-Riddle.

I am very glad I did everything as I did. Granted, I think the job I should have had enlisted into was loadmaster, but to be honest I didn't even know what a loadmaster was until I got to tech school. You have a leg up on me, already researching on sites like this. More importantly, I think my enlisted time matured me by a factor of thousands, not only turning me into a person I am very happy to be (HS was not a very pleasant time in my life) but also preparing me to excel in college - more so because I was in college because I was READY and WANTED to be there. I am happy to say my motivation helped me graduate with a 4.0, but the fact that I transferred in with 98(!) xfer credits really helped too (who knew it added up that much!). I was lucky enough that I enlisted very young - only 17 yrs old - and that by the time I got my motor going I still had plenty of time to beat the pilot age limit cutoff. Looking back, I could have achieved much the same a lot sooner had I enlisted into the AF Reserves or the Air National Guard. Plus, a lot of AFR/ANG flying squadrons hire from within - ie, if you can get on as a loadmaster, flight engineer, boom operator, gunner, etc w/ a guard/reserve unit and finish a degree, there's a very good chance you will be at the top of the "Hire" pile the next time they are looking for pilots. As long as you've impressed everyone and aren't an enlisted douche.

The first couple of years enlisted were tough for me but I'd do it all again if I needed to. Here's some other things to consider, too...

I didn't know until I started the commissioning process that pilots are primarily taken from the Academy and ROTC (OTS is, by it's nature, for filling slots that Academy and ROTC don't) but there were still many pilot trainees in my OTS class. I am glad I went the route I did because I was able to dictate my officer job; my OTS application had PILOT on it and nothing else, so I knew I had it locked in before even starting my commissioning program. If you go ROTC there is no guarantee you'll get a rated slot at all, and it is very selective based (almost) wholly on your Flight Commander's rating.

I hope all that helps; if nothing else, you know it can be done 'cuz I just did it! You've got a huge decision to make and it should help knowing you can't really go wrong either way. I will say this though - I am very lucky I made it here. There were many "incidents" along the way that could have killed my career before it even took off, and most of them can be attributed to underage drinking. I was lucky and never got caught but I had many friends from my maintenance squadron that are were not even allowed to finish their initial enlistment. Whichever route you choose, make sure you keep your nose clean; a DUI even as a ROTC cadet will end your career. And if you go enlisted, choose the job you'll be happiest with. No job will make getting a degree easy, but where there's a will there's a way... at least as a Reservist or Guardsman you often have the option of working full time if you need the $$ though.

Feel free to PM me (er, my wife) if you have any other questions.

Edited October 19, 2007 by Kayla

[Guest Sparky]

AR

I would have never made it through college had I gone after high school. I was only lucky in that I realized that, and I decided that instead of being a buttboy for Winn Dixie for the rest of my life, I instead walked into an Air Force recruiter's office and signed on the dotted line. My financial situation wasn't bad, I just wasn't mature enough for college at the time. There was a community college within a stone's throw of where I went to high school, I guess 75% of my graduating class went there and 95% of them flunked out. I was lucky enough (I like to call it smart enough, be to be honest it was more luck than brains!) to go the USAF route instead of following all the sheep.

Getting a degree and a commission is a longterm goal, and it is obtainable but you have to have patience and persistance. The biggest thing holding you back is yourself. Enlisting for four years until you get yourself on track is a good idea. I highly value my enlisted time, and I like to think I was a better officer because of it. I did my four years and ended up doing another year and a half in the Reserves when I went to college. Technically, I never left the service from my first day of basic training (26 years ago this Friday) until I retired in 2006; and I can honestly say that despite the tons of BS that may have come and gone during that time, I wouldn't trade one second of it for the world.

As for jobs, the ones you listed are good if you can get into them. Aircraft maintenance is another good field you may consider. Not the most glamorous, but you get hands-on experience that will serve you well when you later go to fly them.

Best of luck to you whatever you do!

Cheers! M2

AR

I think you are headed in the right direction! Sometimes life just doesn't afford the opportunities to guys like us, so we have to go out there and make our own. I enrolled in junior college right out of high school and let's just say it was a quick trip....flunked out after the first semester. Lucky for me there was a AF recruiting office just across the street so I walked in there (18 years old) and told the recruiter that I wanted to be an Air Force Pilot, he said sure...sign here! Those 4 years paid huge dividends in many ways. I was able to complete about 2 1/2 years of college in my first 4 years, obtain my pilot's license, and more importantly....grow up. I ended up applying for a AFROTC scholarship and got picked up, 2 years later I was an Officer and headed to pilot training. The GI Bill was huge during school, and the fact that I was on a scholarship just made that money gravy. There is more than one way to skin that cat of becoming a pilot in the USAF...you just have to find what works for you. There are probably 10 different routes you can take to achieve your goals, but make sure you establish those goals and objectives and stick with them. If you do enlist, don't get lazy and complacent! Don't be one of those guys that just does enough to get by, always remember that the job you have currently is the most important thing or your supervisors will never support you in your pursuits. When selecting/deciding on a job while enlisted...take into consideration jobs that will provide opportunities for you should the pilot/officer thing not work out. Pick a job that will allow you to go to school. I was a fireman, received great training for potential career outside the AF, but it also gave me the opportunity to attend college while active duty. Not that other jobs won't...it was just really easy working in the Fire Dept. What ever you decide to do, Good luck! Cheers,

Sparky

[sputnik]

I think boomer or loadmaster would be awesome jobs, but the advice above about proximity to flight line being related to difficulty of attending school was dead on. As a 17 guy I can attest it's very damn hard to attend class on the side. The one load I can think of off top of my head who did the commissioning thing went to Altus as it was the only way to get the stability he needed.

Other side of the spectrum, I was working in a command post and one of my sharper young guys managed to CLEP his way and take classes through two years of college at the local CC. WA state transfers 100% of CC credits with no issues, he separated under one of the programs you mentioned and went off to UW to finish up his degree under funded scholarship. I've no doubt he couldn't have done it had he been a load though, no way to make class. With some dedication (and right career field choices) you could easily do a 4 year enlistement and finish with 2+ years of college. From there you would be a shoe-in for ROTC, etc, and set youself up to have a four year degree, four years enlisted time, and a commission all in six years. Hard to beat, but it takes dedication and a long view.

My situation was similar ot a lot of people who already wrote, graduated high school with neither the financial means nor (more importantly) the desire to go to college immediately. I enlisted in the Army and eventually ended up at USAFA, strange things happen.

Having been in the Army I wouldn't necessarily recommend it especially if you want to join the Air Force. But if you look at the amount of money you can make in a four, three or even two year enlistment....it is pretty mind boggling. If you look at it as a straight cold blooded financial transaction, the Army will give you far more cash, and far better college benefits than the AF will. Possibility of you being physically able to use those benefits at the completion of your tour is marginally lower than if you joined the AF, true. QOL definately lower, also true. If you are considering an enlistment as a means to an AF commision and pilot slot, don't limit yourself to just the AF. I've flown with many AF pilots who served enlistments in other services.

Generally speaking, if you go to your leadership and tell them you want to futher your education and your career (and prove you're not a sh!tbag), they will bend over backwards to help you. You won't realize this as a young enlisted guy but it's an enormous feather in a commander's cap to have a troop commissioned, got to Academy, etc. Huge.

From what you wrote I think you know the right thing to do, certainly more than a bunch of guys on an internet board who've never met you. Rest assured, you can go from enlisted to AF pilot.

Edited October 27, 2007 by sputnik

[Guest gunner08]

Hi I'm new to the forum and had a few questions/advise for competing for one of the Air Force's commissioning programs. To begin with I just completed my 3 level for Aerial Gunner, and I have survival school and my IQT/MQT training left. I was top graduating airman in BMT, top grad in my aircrew fundamentals class, and although there wasn't an award, I had the top gpa in my basic aerial gunner course. I have about 2.5 years of college, and my PPL. What specific program would you recommend, and what advise do you have in attaining a slot? I know it sounds vague but right now I'm just trying to get a generalized idea about the best way in approaching this. Thanks in advance for any information.

[Palangi]

I know it sounds vague but right now I'm just trying to get a generalized idea about the best way in approaching this. Thanks in advance for any information.

The first thing I would do is visit your Force Development Flight they are going to be the ones that assist YOU in filling out your package. Also checkout link. If you are using TA, how long will it take for you to finish your degree? OTS is a definite possibility for you, as well as the USAFA if you are young enough to start over. A lot will depend on your age and amount of school left.

--Palangi