Enlisted to Officer

[Guest Bushmaster]

Hi folks,

I am going to ask a question on the behalf of a very close friend of mine who is an E-5 in the Airforce AD.

He pursues his goal to become a pilot/nav in the Airforce and he was determined to apply for the Airman Education and Commissioning Program (AECP) Today we found out on the AFOATS page that he can not become a pilot/nav under this program. Also US Military website on About network confirms this.

https://www.afoats.af.mil/AFROTC/EnlistedCo...oning/pilot.htm

Q. Can I get to be a pilot or navigator through the enlisted commissioning programs?

A. Yes and No. Yes for ASCP, SOAR, and the Two-Year POC-ERP. No for AECP.

https://usmilitary.about.com/cs/airforcetrng/a/aecp.htm

The AECP is not an avenue for undergraduate flying training. In other words, you cannot become a pilot or navigator under this program.

We are wondering what the reason behind this? And what my friend can do about his goal? What venues can he go for?

[Guest Bushmaster]

One more question, we just downloaded the AFI 36-2013 and it says;

2.1.2. AECP is not an avenue for undergraduate flying training.

2.1.2.1. AECP graduates may apply for undergraduate flying training after commissioning and assignment.

So it seems like that my friend can get his commission and then apply for UPT once he is at his duty station as an officer, how many pilot/nav slots does the AF have for officer applicants each year?

[mmkk111]

I'm not exactly sure why. I believe AECP is the old bootstrap program. Is your friend trying to stay on AD while he goes to school? If I remember correctly, AECP pays you as an E-5 while you go to school, and then you attend OTS when you're finished. Is that right?

I was a SrA and got picked up for POC-ERP and did the ROTC thing. I used my G.I. Bill and the ROTC money to get through school. My wife was still enlisted at the time, so we had base housing (which helped a lot!).

If he wants to fly, I recommend to go through ROTC (i.e POC-ERP, SOAR, etc...). He could do AECP and try for a slot once on AD, but it is harder to go that route. When I was in ROTC, they gave out about 500 UPT slots a year.

Sorry I couldn’t be more helpful,

Mark

[Guest falcon13]

Quick question:

I have had some conflicting information regarding pay from enlisted to officer.

I am an E-5 in the ANG with 4.5 yrs of service getting ready to go to AMS.

I do not have at least 4 years and 1 day of active duty service and/or 1,460 points to make the O-1E pay once my commission hits. So, once I get my commission, on the pay chart from DFAS, can I use my 4 years of service and start making the max pay for a 2Lt, or do I start at the beginning of the pay chart?

I know this may be an obvious answer, but I would appreciate any input. Thanks a lot.

[BONE Co-driver]

You should be an O-1 with over 4 years of service. I was active for 3 1/2 and a little over a year in the reserves before I was commissioned. I didn't get the O-1E pay but I did get the over 4 years of service pay. There isn't a huge difference in base pay...the real difference is in the BAH rates. I was only getting paid about $50 less a month compared to an O-1E/O-2E until I pinned on O-3. Let me tell you, the base pay from an O-2 topped out to an O-3 with over 10 years service was HUGE!!!

Good luck

[M2]

Not really related but I lucked out because of the Reserves...I had 4 years, 0 months and 0 days of active duty from my one enlistment, but joined the Reserves for 18 months when I started college and completed two Annual Tours, which gave me an additional 30 days of enlisted active duty. Ka-ching! A lot of prior guys I knew who only did one four-year enlistment were bummed because, as you said, you need over four years of enlisted AD time to qualify as an O-1E!

Cheers! M2

[BFM this]

Not to mention, being a reservist keeps your pay date clock going. $$$$

[pcola]

Does the ROTC field training time count as AD enlisted time? The reason I ask is because I am currently O-1 over 8 on the pay scale (3 yrs 9 mos AD enlisted time plus the IRR time.) However, I only have 3 yrs, 11 mos, 27 days of AD enlisted time, so I don't get the O-1E pay. As some of you know, I did ROTC and OTS. The OTS time counted towards my AD enlisted time, but the finance folks aren't willing to work with me to find out of my 5 week AFROTC field training time counts. That would be enough to put me over the top. It sucks being five days short of an additional $500/month.

[M2]

Pcola

Sorry, no.

Just to make sure it's clear, only enlisted AD time counts towards getting the 'E', and as said, you need at least one day over four years of that. None of the delayed enlistment time counts, only the actual days you spent on active duty (or USAFR annual tours, as in my case; plus any time a Guard or Reservist is activated).

Delayed enlistment time, IIR, all that only counts for computing your TIS.

Hope that's clear.

Cheers! M2

[Guest jaybird141]

Couple guys in my OTS class had 4 years prior, then 12 weeks OTS -- did count as active duty time. You do have and AD E-5 ID card while you are there unless you were a higher Enlisted grade. And a buddy of mine from ASBC did 4 years AD, got out, ROTC, got a waiver through AFPC, and now gets paid as an O-1E

[pcola]

Jay, do you know what kind of waiver your friend got or how he went about getting it? As I wrote, I did 3 yrs 9 mos AD enlisted before getting a 3 month early seperation. The 12 weeks of OTS did count, but that put me to 3 yrs 11 mos 27 days. I'm still 5 days short! If I could get them to count any of my 4 years of ROTC then I would be set. This waiver information could be very valuable to me. Any info you have would be great.

Thanks

[M2]

I am also interested in how it could be waivered, I have never heard of that happening. You either have the days or you don't.

Pcola, to the best of my knowledge, no AFRTOC time counts towards AD. At least it didn't 15+ years ago when I was going through the same situation. Trust me, I know how you feel, I spent a year thinking my prior time didn't count, being one day short of the requirement, until I met the young lady who worked at the AFDW Finance Office. I hope you have the same luck and find some way to punch yourself across that magic line.

Cheers! M2

[Guest kylejustin]

I'm doing POC-ERP at DET 910, University of Washington...let me know if I can help. When I was applying for my program, my base education office was worthless. This website was very helpful: https://www.afoats.af.mil/AFROTC/EnlistedCo...ing/Default.htm

[Guest ce2be]

I will PM you, but AECP is not an way to go to pilot training. You can NOT be a pilot through AECP. You can apply after you get your commission as a *fill in the job you get throught AECP, i.e nurse, Engineer, etc...*

If he only wants to be a pilot, he/she should look at ASCP, POC-ERP, or SOAR.

-Never mind, I just saw you did ask the other guy directly.....Info for others

Disregard PM...

[ 23. June 2005, 09:55: Message edited by: ce2be ]

[Guest kylejustin]

I was Aircraft Electrical/Environmental Mx at Travis AFB prior to starting the program. I had gone to classes part time at Embry-Riddle on base and finished a little more than half of my Professional Aeronautics degree before I applied. I applied for the 2 year POR-ERP program and just finished the first year.

Basically the program is pretty lame for prior enlisted people. I think most cadets would agree that ROTC is totally gay, but for the prior enlisted people, it’s even gayer. It’s kind of hard coming from Active Duty and then hearing some cadet at Field Training scream in your face telling you that you don’t belong in his Air Force. I knew what I was getting into before I applied because I heard the same thing from someone else. It actually a really is a nice break from turning wrenches on the flightline for me. It’s just like being a college student, but you have a few more commitments for ROTC like e twice per week workout and something called Leadership Lab, which is about 2-hours once a week. The program itself is cake; the only thing that is challenging is swallowing your pride, humbling yourself, and sucking it up for a couple easy years, because come commissioning time, getting those bars will all be worth it.

One thing I’ve really enjoyed about the program is the Aerospace Studies classes which are basically the ROTC classes you take at the Detachment. They are 1-hour three days per week and focus mainly on leadership and things that I found very useful. I thought the content was just like Airman Leadership School. If your guy has been through ALS, he’ll be breezing through theses classes.

A couple of important tips:

1) If he only wants to fly, make sure he applies for ASCP, POC-ERP, or SOAR. AECP will not allow you to compete for a pilot/nav slot.

2) ASCP, POC-ERP, and SOAR separate you from the AF. It’s worth it to wait until you have 4 years of AD service before your date of separation. So, what I did is applied for the program when I had 3 years in (the board meets around August), found out I was selected and that means I’d start school the following fall. You are pretty much able to choose your date of separation, as long as it’s within 3 months of your class start date, so make sure its past your 4 year mark. Anyway, the reason for all this is that you want to get that 0-1E pay. It’s a big difference and worth the wait. Another VERY important reason for waiting is if you separate before then, you won’t get your entire GI bill, which is the main portion of my income while I’m here. ($1200 a month). If you separate before 4 years, you will still get some of it, but it’s not worth it.

3) Pay very close attention to the minor details (spelling, spacing, punctuation) in the application. The board looks very close at theses little things and uses them to stratify packages.

4) You can apply for more than pone program and he totally should. For example, he could apply for ASCP, POC-ERP, and SOAR all for the same board. The packages would be almost identical. The only difference would be the name of the program he would be applying for on each document.

5) If he’s really serious about it, then start working on the package now. I started mine about one year before it was due, and was still rushing to get some last minute things done. If he needs any examples, I still have mine in and can email it if that helps.

Hope this help.

[Guest ktac4000]

i am a airman on active duty and wanted to find out the best route to becoming a pilot?

[Guest ShortThrow]

the BEST route is to do the airmen to the academy program. My buddy is an airmen and is leaving for camp at the zoo in like 2 weeks or whatever the date is.

[Guest Astrozeke]

If you want to become a pilot, you'll have to get into some sort of commissioning program. That means you'll have to take the SAT's, the AFOQT, and pick up a degree. A poor HS GPA can give you problems when looking at colleges. Good scores on the SAT may help offset that a little bit. Good luck.

[ 16. June 2006, 17:06: Message edited by: Astrozeke ]

[Guest jaybird141]

A great first start would be to go to your education office and find out when their commisioning briefings are. They will explain the multiple ways for you to cross over.

[Riddller]

Or look here

[Guest anakmanja]

i'm right now applying for AECP. it requires min 1 year in service, 30 transferable college credits, (this year anyways) a major in Foreign Languages/Technical/Medical and of course a passing score on the AFOQT. deal goes you'd be going back to school minimum 1 year maximum 3 at any school you want as long as it has an ROTC unit. you'd also get SSgt pay and BAH and BAS plus all your tuition and books are paid for. it looks pretty good to me

[Guest IwantUPT]

AECP is not an avenue for Undergraduate Flying Training.

[HerkDerka]

Originally posted by ktac4000:

i am a airman on active duty and wanted to find out the best route to becoming a pilot?

This post tells me nothing. If you are wanting advice on what would be the best route for you to get a commission, you need to give some information.

If you have a degree already, then OTS and the airman commissioning programs are the quickest route. If you don't have a degree, then when are you going to get one? Are you going to finish your enlistment and then go to college? You apply to the USAFA or apply for an ROTC scholarship.

Figure out where your commissioning is going to come from and then you can worry about getting into pilot training. The thing to remember is you have a better chance of getting a pilot slot through the academy or ROTC. Let us know your situation and we'll be able to help you a little better.

Also, there have been countless threads on this subject already, so the search function could really help you.

HD

[ 26. June 2006, 11:56: Message edited by: HerkDerka ]

[Guest ktac4000]

i have 24 college credits 1 yr in service

[Guest stusakss]

The answers to this are many and varied. Remember this though, where there is a will there is a way...I did the ROTC so long after HS that neither the AF nor my college even asked for SAT stuff or my HS records. Which is great, because my thoughts were not focused on school then anyway. I did 8 years as an E-dog, loved every one.

And take heart, there are plenty of not smart people flying out there, take HerkDerka for instance, he barely passed Aircraft Commander school, takes it overly personaly when the fat guy and old hillbilly in his class beats him out on the golf couse, and overall has very little SA about the world he tries to co-exist with us cool people in.

OK, that is not all true, I just love messing wth ole' S**#*y.