Promotion and PRF Information

[Guest navobd]

I'm currently at UPT and will meet the time in grade requirement for Major at the end of the month. I've also completed SOS. My commander once told me that once I had the time in grade and PME completed I could expect to promote to Maj. I recently asked about this again and he told me he wasn't sure if I could be promoted now

because I'm not yet a "qualified" pilot (assuming a vacancy promotion). Does anybody know the answer here? Thanks.

[Guest Rainman A-10]

Every pilot position on the UMD is authorized a major's rank. You are not a pilot yet, you are a student. Student pilots are not pilots, they are students who fly but not by themselves and they aren't qualified to kill the enemy. You can become eligible for promotion if you eventually become an MR pilot and occupy a pilot position on the Unit Manning Document.

Questions?

[Guest AV8NSP]

More specifically, as a student, you are probably assigned to a student billet on the Student Flight UMD (i.e. you're not on the squadron's UMD yet). These student pilot positions are usually authorized at the 1Lt level (overgrade obviously OK). Once you finish UPT, FTU, and your MQT, they should do a 2096 on you to transfer you to the actual pilot billet on the unit UMD. THEN you can do the PV promotion to Maj.

[Flare]

The only PME for making Major is SOS, right?

What about a Master's degree?

[Guest Hydro130]

Masters = CURRENTLY masked (no guarantees, so go get one to be safe!)

SOS = deal-breaker for 0-4 (in res or not - just go gitter done!)

Cheers, Hydro

[BitteEinBit]

Regarding promotions, lack of PME is a clean kill, but don't forget your official records at Randolph. Too many people depend on the records kept at their local MPF as a sufficient records review. The records that are at your MPF are not your official records. In other words, while your local MPF records might be in order (probably not if you're at Dyess, but thats another story), the ones that really count are the ones on file at AFPC. You are authorized permissive TDY once a year to check your official records at Randolph. Those are the records the promotion board will see, and if they are not in order, you will not get promoted, PME or no PME. Essentially you're making sure that all of your medals (Achievement and above) are posted in your records, ensure all OPRs and training reports are posted and that the dates on the OPRs don't leave any gaps between reports. Also ensure that all of your personal data is up to date on your SURF to include job titles (current and past), PME, flying hours, current ratings, etc. The good folks at AFPC can help you and answer any questions you might have. To get to the records review office in case you don't know, enter the front doors of the AFPC building at Randolph and head towards the back right of the lobby, take that hall to the right and it will turn left. Go down the LOOOOOONG hallway and it is the last door on your right before the hallway turns left again. Take advantage of that free leave to Randolph, check your records and then go have a beer or two or three on the Riverwalk. Every one I've known to get passed over has had at least SOMETHING wrong with their records. Sorry for the long geeky exec post, but hopefully some of you will take advantage...

Cheers!

[M2]

Bitte Ein Bit (cool name)

Good post, and I would only add one thing. You can bring copies of your decorations and orders to get your records updated, but you can't do a damn thing if an OPR or training record is not in your master records (the ones AFPC holds, and the ones the promotion boards see). For that you have to work through your local MPF (if you are lucky to have one, and the one on Lackland is going away in a few months). Anyone within a year of a board should make the trek to the Alamo city to check their master records, on average I think I was missing 2-3 decorations everytime I checked. And with the boards being someone competitive with everyone deploying all of the time and everyone using the SH OPR/PRF bullet lists I posted earlier, all it takes is a missing MSM or ticket to cause a passover.

My earlier post assumed these guys checked their records in advance. You can request a hardcopy of your records from AFPC, but it takes a month or two to arrive.

Cheers! M2

[M2]

Originally posted by CrashCB18:

Who manages Virtual MPF (local or Randolph)? I know that the website isn't official for boards, but I'm guessing it would give a general idea of how up to date your records are if the website is managed at Radolph.

Crash

I am no personnel/admin weenie, nor did I stay at a Holiday Inn last night; but if I am not mistaken, vMPF is "managed" by AFPC. But, that said, do NOT make the mistake of thinking that if something shows up on vMPF that it is in your Master Records! What is updated in the computer doesn't necessarily mean the hardcopy has made it into your records. See my earlier remark of having someone else's dec in my records.

For all you who have yet to smell what I am cooking, go to Randolph and look over your records yourself! If you can't do that, use one of the other methods of getting a copy of your records!

If you think the excuse of "Sorry, but I didn't check that a critical dec or all of my OPRs were in my records" is going to pass muster after you've been passed over, then you are dumber than you realize and you don't deserve to be promoted. As a matter of fact, you probably shouldn't be in the USAF in the first place, as I wouldn't trust you to cook my eggs at the chow hall or anything else as equally important!

And don't forget to do your PME, unless, of course, you don't want to get promoted!

Cheers! M2

[Guest ruckerstud]

The thread on white jets vs. MDS got me thinking. Can you tell someone at AFPC that you don't really care about promotion beyond Major? If so, will they let you take a job that would normally kill your career? I'm not saying that I fall into the category, just wondering.

[Guest Hydro130]

No. DO NOT tell anyone you don't care about promotion, whatever your intentions. Don't EVER tell AFPC or your CC that! Keep that little secret to yourself, and fill out your pref work sheet to reflect what you WANT to do, whatever that is. Go with your heart, but firewall your OPRs. Your PRFs will fall where they may, so be it...

Cheers, Hydro

EDIT: PRF, PFR, tomato, tomatoe....

[ 27. May 2006, 21:34: Message edited by: Hydro130 ]

[Mambo]

I think what he means is that if you walk into your CC's office and say "sir, I just don't really care to make anything above Major." that he will view you as someone that has no inner drive, someone who is not willing to step up and take on leadership roles. As such, they would probablly end up with some of the more crappy jobs within the squadron. It could mean that the person in question will just do enough to get by. I doubt that they would force you out, but as a young Capt, if your not doing the things to make LtCol, I doubt you'll make Maj.

Promotion in the ranks is something everyone should strive for. It shows you are willing to take on added responsibility and be a leader.

And besides, if you guys here don't make rank, who the hell is going to take over for the current crop of uniform changing, flair creating ass-clowns we have now! Dammit, one of you guys make GO so we can STOP THE MADNESS!

[Guest e3racing]

Is there any pilots here that did not get a DP, but just a "p" on their PRF and still made major? Just curious at what this rate is roughly. Im in a platform where im going to compete with backend people for a DP and curious of what my chance of making major are if i only get a "p"

Thanks

[ 01. September 2006, 19:29: Message edited by: Toro ]

[Herk Driver]

If you've been passed over for your primary board, then getting a 'P' for your above the zone board is a show stopper. Actually getting a 'DP' in your APZ board probably won't help a whole lot, either.

However, getting a 'P' for your 2 below and 1 below board doesn't really matter a whole lot. What really matters is what you get in your primary board. Promotion boards have all TR's/OPR's and your most recent PRF in front of them.

All previous PRF's are not seen by the board, so with all the stuff said above, getting more than one 'P' will not stop you from getting promoted. Someone else said it right, you only get the P, DP, or DNP on the PRF and there is only one of those in your record at a time.

With promotion rates to Major running in the 90-95% range, you have to have skeletons in that closet or a messed up record to not get promoted.

[Cooter]

Is there actually a DNP on PRFs? I've done quite a few and all I remember is P/DP. Could be wrong since I've been out of the office fore about 5 months. All I can say is you better stat building your OPRs as a Lt. The more #1s and #1 of 25 and #5 of 70's you have the better. That's what they look for, how'd you stack up against your peers. If you don't have those, and good ones (top 5% or better or #1 of 10 or more your hopes of being a Genreal someday could be squashed) the board could really care less how many bombs or boxes of TP you dropped in the war. I've seen a lot of shady shit go on and then they come out with a #1/300 CGOs in Group. Whatever those people sacrifice they can keep it, Not worth it to me. Be very involved in your OPR writingprocess and push for strats so you can have a bunch in your PRF. Getting a P for your Majors board is not a killer. As said before you'd have to have some skeletons in your closet..like the WG/CCs daughter :eek: !

Cooter

[Herk Driver]

Originally posted by Cooter:

Is there actually a DNP on PRFs? I've done quite a few and all I remember is P/DP. Could be wrong since I've been out of the office fore about 5 months. All I can say is you better stat building your OPRs as a Lt. The more #1s and #1 of 25 and #5 of 70's you have the better. That's what they look for, how'd you stack up against your peers. If you don't have those, and good ones (top 5% or better or #1 of 10 or more your hopes of being a Genreal someday could be squashed) the board could really care less how many bombs or boxes of TP you dropped in the war. I've seen a lot of shady shit go on and then they come out with a #1/300 CGOs in Group. Whatever those people sacrifice they can keep it, Not worth it to me. Be very involved in your OPR writingprocess and push for strats so you can have a bunch in your PRF. Getting a P for your Majors board is not a killer. As said before you'd have to have some skeletons in your closet..like the WG/CCs daughter :eek: !

Cooter

Yep, what Cooter said. Yes, there is a DNP. I just finished writing my PRF and double-checked to make sure. Here's the link to the AF Form 709 so you can check for yourself.

https://www.e-publishing.af.mil/formfiles/af/af709/af709.xfd

[ClearedHot]

It is VITAL for you guys to understand the while for educational data (Masters) is still masked, it is only....repeat only masked to the promotion board. Your senior rater still has access to that data and may well use it to determine who gets a P or DP.

It's been said 69,000 times on here, get your Masters.

[Guest Rainman A-10]

It is VITAL for you guys to understand the while for educational data (Masters) is still masked, it is only....repeat only masked to the promotion board. Your senior rater still has access to that data and may well use it to determine who gets a P or DP.

It's been said 69,000 times on here, get your Masters.

SHACK!

Get your masters degree ASAFP. No mewling about how busy you are or how it shouldn't matter becasue you are a shit hot pilot or how you have a rock in your shoe. Just get it done. I'm talking to everyone who hasn't done it yet. If you're still in ROTC see if there is a way you can crank out a master's or at least get some classes done before you enter AD.

You guys are lucky. It looks like the AD is promoting to major as fast as the Guard. I was a Captain for 8 yrs 10 mo. That doesn't mean I made Major in nine years, that means I held the rank of Captain for almost nine years. The promotion rates to Maj were 70-75% range and lots of guys were getting passed over. That was also back in the day when each squadron was only authorized a maximum of three field grade officers. Old school, I know, but I just wanted to give you guys a little perspective that the USAF appears to be trying to do some things right.

How soon does a guy make Lt Col now, 10 years?

I'm not bitching, I'm glad people are making rank quickly. I hope you guys are investing your pay raises.

[brickhistory]

From horse's.......mouths (yeah, that's the word) who have sat on active and reserve promo boards (unknown re ANG), some universal truths...........

Almost a Letterman Top 10 list for advancement

1. Command

2. PME (in residence if at ALL possible, especially ACSC/equivalent and AWC/equivalent. Although it's been done and guys have done well without it, not going to school in residence is the first major roadsign that your career has just stalled. Recoverable, but you have to Avis it and try harder. Getting command is really hard without in-residence PME.)

3. Advanced degree

3a. Weapons School., etc, is way good.

4. High stratification in OPRs/PRF. "My #1 of XX" is your goal. If that, then a DP is a given.

5. Medal commensurate with your grade and one in there within the last 12-18 months. Combat decorations score better than "I was there" medals.

6. Deployment (s) documented in your records.

7. Records are up to date/nothing missing. Make sure all your OPRs/awards are in there.

8. And although I disagree with this one in particular, exec jobs are a fast track way to accomplish #s 2 & 4. Look at the GO bios and see how many of them did it. Like promotes like.

9. Get all the above done ASAP, then you don't have to worry about it at the last minute. WG/CCs and above don't really care that you are "enrolled" in ACSC at the time your board meets. They want to see it done.

10. Enjoy the ride; if being CSAF is not your be all and end all, then relax a little. Many, many before you have made Maj and even Lt Col and can look at themselves in the mirror just fine without pinging about most of the above.

For most promotion boards, each panel member takes about 15-30 SECONDS in the first cut to winnow out the dross or determine the top candidates The former go in the big "thanks for playing" pile and the second go in the "no brainer, promote now" pile.

The middle ground is where they will take a little more time to look at records.

Edited February 22, 2007 by brickhistory

[Guest Airdrop]

Here's a link to AFPC website.

This is probably a good source of info, but every single link I click gives me "If you do not have Mil Restricted access, you will not be able to view this knowledgebase article. If you have Mil Restricted access, then, the knowledge base article you are trying to access is currently being reviewed and should be back online shortly." I'm using a .mil computer, so I guess they're all closed for training like normal MPF. Anyway, here's the questions I was trying to get answered -

- How are line numbers determined?

- How are school selects determined?

- After the promotion list has been released, when do the actual promotions start? (I know the promotion cycle is a "CY" - when is this?)

- To estimate your promotion date, would it be a good assumption that you could divide the total line numbers by the promotion period (CY?) and divide that by 12?

Thanks for the help, Baseopers. Thanks for nothing, AFPC.

[Hacker]

- How are line numbers determined?

Has to do with your original active duty service date. The "oldest" guys in terms of service date get the lowest line numbers -- these are usually the USAFA grads, who are usually the earliest Commissionees in every fiscal year group. People who were commissioned after that get higher line numbers. The BTZ selects get the highest line numbers.

- How are school selects determined?

The board that selects the promotees also selects the people for school. Criteria and cutoffs depend completely on the board. BTZ selects usually all are selected for school on the O-4 and O-5 boards.

- After the promotion list has been released, when do the actual promotions start? (I know the promotion cycle is a "CY" - when is this?)

All depends on when all the selects from the previous board have all pinned on. Lately it has been 6-ish months.

- To estimate your promotion date, would it be a good assumption that you could divide the total line numbers by the promotion period (CY?) and divide that by 12?

The numbers of people promoted each month differ from board to board. It is not a fixed time period to promote all the selects. Remember that the total number of Field Grade officers is something that is mandated/managed at the Pentagon (and Congressionally-approved) level. How many can be promoted depends on how many are currently serving in grade.

Edited September 13, 2009 by Hacker

[zach braff]

I often hear about "breadth" playing a big role, but don't see it mentioned here. How much does it matter to have worked in different MAJCOMS, levels (Wg, NAF, agency...)? I guess for most pilots you'd primarily be in the MAJCOM your aircraft supports, but is it a factor?

As an LT I had a great boss up for Maj. Mind you, a support Capt, but PRF was DP - lined with #1 strats down the entire line, Wg/CC's "my #1 DP" line and top PME push, masters, SOS, exec, and all that jazz. She was promoted but not picked for PME. Later on an FGO relayed that it was likely because she hadn't been in the right MAJCOMS or right "levels" (1 yr in ACC, the rest at USAFA, AFSPACE, and AFMC at Wg or agency level). Would that really have played that much of a role that it would negate all the other stuff? Just curious.

zb

[Toro]

I often hear about "breadth" playing a big role, but don't see it mentioned here. How much does it matter to have worked in different MAJCOMS, levels (Wg, NAF, agency...)? I guess for most pilots you'd primarily be in the MAJCOM your aircraft supports, but is it a factor?

As an LT I had a great boss up for Maj. Mind you, a support Capt, but PRF was DP - lined with #1 strats down the entire line, Wg/CC's "my #1 DP" line and top PME push, masters, SOS, exec, and all that jazz. She was promoted but not picked for PME. Later on an FGO relayed that it was likely because she hadn't been in the right MAJCOMS or right "levels" (1 yr in ACC, the rest at USAFA, AFSPACE, and AFMC at Wg or agency level). Would that really have played that much of a role that it would negate all the other stuff? Just curious.

I disagree with the "different MAJCOMs" portion of it. DPs in the promotion zone (IPZ) compete much harder for school than those who get a DP below the zone, I would say it has more to do with her AFSC than where she worked. Now the one thing I will agree with is where she worked within the MAJCOM. You can be in ACC, but if you are working at the squadron level, that's average. Working at the Wing might buy you a little more clout. Working at the numbered AF or the actual MAJCOM (staff) is better for you.

[Herk Driver]

I disagree with the "different MAJCOMs" portion of it. DPs in the promotion zone (IPZ) compete much harder for school than those who get a DP below the zone, I would say it has more to do with her AFSC than where she worked. Now the one thing I will agree with is where she worked within the MAJCOM. You can be in ACC, but if you are working at the squadron level, that's average. Working at the Wing might buy you a little more clout. Working at the numbered AF or the actual MAJCOM (staff) is better for you.

2

Working at Air Staff is better than Joint (JCS), is better than Joint (other), is better than MAJCOM, is better than NAF. Working outside the Wing is good for you, but there are different levels of it and where you fit and how well you do in that job play a large part.

That's why only about 1-2% get a push line or DT vector that is for Air Staff.

[Guest Jollygreen]

Working at Air Staff is better than Joint (JCS), is better than Joint (other), is better than Air Staff, is better than MAJCOM, is better than NAF. Working outside the Wing is good for you, but there are different levels of it and where you fit and how well you do in that job play a large part.

That is far more accurate...unfortunately.

[Herk Driver]

Working at Air Staff is better than Joint (JCS), is better than Joint (other), is better than Air Staff, is better than MAJCOM, is better than NAF. Working outside the Wing is good for you, but there are different levels of it and where you fit and how well you do in that job play a large part.

That is far more accurate...unfortunately.

Dude, say what you want. Getting a vector for Air Staff is more difficult and more highly viewed by the AF. A lessor percentage of people get an Air Staff vector, than joint (other). Having done a Joint(other) tour, I can tell you that the AF view is out of sight, out of mind. Your joint OPR means nothing except the strat line.