Promotion and PRF Information

[TAMInated]

Curious what kind of actual numbers we are talking here. 2/4 could be an anomaly. 7/15 means something is fckd up at your wing. Care to expand?

6/13. One was second look. Of the PRFs that were written here, 3/8 made it, one was the squadron patch. As for the wing being fckd up, 100% of the people who fly (not "fly") were promoted.

Edited March 30, 2012 by TAMInated

[BADFNZ]

For all the young guys on this board (Captains awaiting their boards and younger) who want to stay in, the writing is clear as crystal looking at the stats--you need to get your masters degree. I spit out the kool-aid a long time ago, so I'm not giving you the company line...I'm telling you what it takes to get picked up for O-4. Grant it, there are obviously guys who make it without having a masters, but statistically, they're rolling the dice. It's the one thing that is 100% within your control (that and at a minimum getting SOS in correspondence)--no excuse if you want to stay in.

I also know of a WG/CC who flat out told his O's that if you don't have your masters, you won't even get looked at for a DP--so you get double-screwed (just like BQZip's Mom getting DP'd).

This seems to be the trend and us young guys are catching on. I'm a 1Lt with SOS in-cor done and already have a BAC+. Many of my bros are in the same boat. It's such a time waste to have to get this stuff done now but we know if we don't we'll be behind the power curve. I think when our Maj board rolls around 99.69% of us will have SOS and a Masters, so who knows what the discriminator of the week will be.

[Skitzo]

Don't worry ERAU has a 95% online doctorate for you poor schmoes...

https://daytonabeach.erau.edu/degrees/doctoral/phd-in-aviation/index.html

[schokie]

I think a P vs DP playing such a large part in the promotion selection is a good thing. In my mind that's how it should be, a CC getting to say "this guy's awesome, this guy's average, this one over here is a dirtbag" and people get promoted accordingly.

The problem is when CC's use things like PME and AAD to determine who gets a DP.

It's like the chicken and the egg. Do you get a DP because you have your masters and are an SOS DG, or did you finish your AAD and get a DG because you're awesome, which in turn led to the DP? Any exec's have more insight on the DP allocation criteria?

[Skitzo]

I could have got mine done before May of 2012. No one was screaming to get it, hence no one was really trying to get one, we all knew we had to have it to get promoted to Lt Col, we figured we had time and just maybe we would get the opportunity to get a real degree. Getting a Master's Degree early out of the gate has created a very easy discriminator for the PRF process.

Message for the guys out there who are in the 2005 year group or later, 2004 its too late: if you think getting it done before your board is your goal you should really reevaluate that stance. Maybe we can get some Group/Wing Execs in here to confirm but the actual racking and stacking of everyone will occur much earlier. I will end up being done about 6 months before the board but I would really rec you being done 9 months before the board, just in case your paperwork or AFIT screws up your degree status you don't look like a POS without a Master's Degree to your Senior Rater.

Call me careerist but I believe we have a duty to not only say a Masters is important to the Air Force but it is also important to your Senior Rater well in advance of the magical board date.

Who knows what the next discriminator will be, PHD's? A second MA, maybe some sort of professional certfication, God forbid it actually boils down to being good at your job.

Edited April 1, 2012 by Skitzo

[Muscle2002]

Maybe we can get some Group/Wing Execs in here to confirm but the actual racking and stacking of everyone will occur much earlier. I will end up being done about 6 months before the board but I would really rec you being done 9 months before the board, just in case your paperwork or AFIT screws up your degree status you don't look like a POS without a Master's Degree to your Senior Rater.

Yes, the rankings from the Sq/CCs go to the OG/CC; are then modified as seen fit by the OG; and are then sent to the Wg/CC around July/August for the December board.

The boss I worked for didn't use the AAD as a primary discriminator...it was always job performance first, but in the event of a tie, it usually came down to the AAD because he knew that the board would probably do the same thing. At the wing level, I have no idea what black magic occurred to determine the rankings, but I know that a spreadsheet delineating who went to SOS; accomplished their AAD; did SOS by correspondence; was an SOS and/or other training program DG; and was an SOS Outstanding Contributor was requested by the Wing Staff for DP/P determination, etc.

Edited April 1, 2012 by Muscle2002

[nsplayr]

I wouldn't say nearly impossible. I knocked it out in 13 months with a PCS and 7 weeks TDY mixed in and started UPT 2 weeks later. I also have two other friends that finished their masters before UPT.

That works out great if you have 13 months before flight training, many dudes don't have that, which is what I was getting at. I mean, I know a guy who went to France to get his MA on the AF's dime then started ENJJPT 2 years later, doesn't exactly mean that's a statistically significant data point.

SOS in corr should not never EVER enter the conversation. It takes 3 weeks. Do it quietly and quickly (as soon as you are 6 mo from Capt) and carry on.

Agreed, very quick and easy.

[Rusty Pipes]

Yes, the rankings from the Sq/CCs go to the OG/CC; are then modified as seen fit by the OG; and are then sent to the Wg/CC around July/August for the December board.

The boss I worked for didn't use the AAD as a primary discriminator...it was always job performance first, but in the event of a tie, it usually came down to the AAD because he knew that the board would probably do the same thing. At the wing level, I have no idea what black magic occurred to determine the rankings, but I know that a spreadsheet delineating who went to SOS; accomplished their AAD; did SOS by correspondence; was an SOS and/or other training program DG; and was an SOS Outstanding Contributor was requested by the Wing Staff for DP/P determination, etc.

Working at the OG for both O-4 and O-5 boards last year the Boss had the list with SOS/ACSC and Masters and it wasn't just a Y/N or check mark... it had the date completed. Both the OG and Wing CC didn't want to know if you had it complete, they wanted to know when you completed it. For the O-4 board if you were just finishing your Masters/SOS in cor a few months before the PRFs were due then it was the same as not doing them at all. If it was for the O-5 board and you didn't have ACSC and your Masters complete before pinning on Maj then it was like you didn't do it at all as well. I wish I could say this was just one particular Wing, but based on the "Officer Mentoring" brief we got from the Wing CC last year (briefed from the AFPC slides) they actually had the slide that talked about ACSC in cor completion timelines in relation to it helping or hurting you for career progression/promotion. This is why we have deployed LT's who are far more concerned with getting SOS and their Masters classes done than they are with the combat missions they are flying. It's not their fault... that is the message that is being sent to them by the Air Force as far as what is important. It's a shame, but this is our reality for the forseeable future.

[Champ Kind]

A squadron commander (I use that term loosely--more like a manager) I had a couple years back very cryptically told me that the date you accomplish your AAD can be as important as actually having it done. I remember thinking "WTF?" but it turns out he was spot on.

[Dead Last]

bloody results in our community as well. some even had masters. all boxes checked, no UIFs - the difference was P vs DP.

masters was not really a discriminator - i even know a couple dudes picked up for school with no masters. DP was the biggest factor.

I'm not sure what command you're in but Masters absolutely was a discriminator in AFSOC at least at Cannon... By the way my squadron was 6 of 17 for the wing that did not get picked up. I can't wait to jump this sinking ship...

cheers

[Fuzz]

So we (UPT studs) were informed today that we need to start tracking and compiling bullets for our training reports (volunteer hours, base activities ect.). We were told it was for our PRFs for captain. Not to complain (well yes I am), why does the AF care what I did during UPT, other than learn to fly an airplane to the best of my ability and haven't UPT training reports usually been a generic report (unless the person did something idiotic)? To put a cherry on top, we can't included anything we did while on casual, which is coincidentally when all of our eligible stuff was done .

Side note, what type of performance report covers studs sitting on casual before pilot training or is it just a crack in the system?

[Danger41]

Don't worry about that crap. They'll fill out these bogus ass forms and you'll get promoted to Captain. They won't ask about your actual bullets and instead just put up the same generic form for all your bros (at least, that's how it worked for me).

[ColoradoAviator]

So we (UPT studs) were informed today that we need to start tracking and compiling bullets for our training reports...

I second Danger41's statement - don't worry about that crap (yet). You won't even have an OPR due until 120 days after you show up to your new squadron, which means you won't have anything to bullets from for your PRF. If your Captain PRF is due and you don't have an OPR yet your flight commander(s) will gin up an MFR with some generic bullets. In the MAF world you will have plenty of opportunity to spend a few hours 'volunteering' during the duty day setting up some lame bullets while you are getting mission ready (read: endless CBTs/ground training events/appointments/etc.) before you go on your dollar ride.

Your priorities in UPT:

1. Bust your ass learning how to fly

2. Don't do anything stupid like get a DUI / hit on the enlisted / fail out

Let your gaining flight commander(s) worry about PRF queep - they are much better at it than you are.

[Danny Noonin]

You won't even have an OPR due until 120 days after you show up to your new squadron, which means you won't have anything to bullets from for your PRF.

Erroneous.

PRF statements can be from OPRs, medals, or training reports.

Just a hunch, but that could be why they're trying to beef up the training reports vs the generic ones that all you seasoned promotion veterans got.

[capt4fans]

I second Danger41's statement - don't worry about that crap (yet). You won't even have an OPR due until 120 days after you show up to your new squadron, which means you won't have anything to bullets from for your PRF. If your Captain PRF is due and you don't have an OPR yet your flight commander(s) will gin up an MFR with some generic bullets. In the MAF world you will have plenty of opportunity to spend a few hours 'volunteering' during the duty day setting up some lame bullets while you are getting mission ready (read: endless CBTs/ground training events/appointments/etc.) before you go on your dollar ride.

Your priorities in UPT:

1. Bust your ass learning how to fly

2. Don't do anything stupid like get a DUI / hit on the enlisted / fail out

Let your gaining flight commander(s) worry about PRF queep - they are much better at it than you are.

Erroneous again. Unless you did something wierd when you first show up to your squadron, either your UPT grad date or your MWS school date (if the course is longer than 20 weeks) will reset your clock for another year before you have and OPR due. And if your Sq tries to short turn your OPR 120 days after you get there, then you're getting fucked theminute you walk in, and I'd be as scared as BQZip's mom at a Frat Party.

[PolyestherDuck]

put a cherry on top, we can't included anything we did while on casual, which is coincidentally when all of our eligible stuff was done

You CAN include stuff done while on casual if you've got an LOE from your previous rater in lieu of an OPR.

Edited April 7, 2012 by PolyestherDuck

[Fuzz]

You CAN include stuff done while on casual if you've got an LOE from your previous rater in lieu of an OPR.

Sorry to plead ignorance but LOE? I'm interested because we were told that it can only be stuff that we have done after we started UPT, which is coincidentally when everyone stopped doing stuff because we thought it would be a good idea to maybe focus on learning to fly.

It isn't a big deal for me because I'll be only a year on AD when I pin my wings, so I'll have at least 2 more OPRs before my PRF, I'm just a little annoyed at the fact that they want to start adding all this stuff to the generic training reports and we are 2/3 of the way or more through UPT. Maybe this forum has made me paranoid, but I can see it start to not bode well for guys that come out of UPT with nothing extra on their training reports.

Just a hunch, but that could be why they're trying to beef up the training reports vs the generic ones that all you seasoned promotion veterans got.

That's the message that was conveyed to us, they wanted to start putting things on paper so guys could have more places to pull from for the PRF.

Edited April 8, 2012 by Scaredfuzz21

[C17Driver]

The LOE would be for anything prior to your UPT start date. Your TR would be for the period you're in UPT. You can't include stuff in a TR that did not happen during the period the TR covers.

[OregonHerc]

What if you're still in student status? (UNT/Little Rock, now Cannon)

[capt4fans]

What if you're still in student status? (UNT/Little Rock, now Cannon)

There's an accounting date for the board. Whoever owns your pink body as of that time, writes the PRF. We have guys overseas now that are having their PRF written from their MWS initial qual school stateside, because their training was a PCS to there, and while they're in our Sq now, as of the accounting date, they were stateside.

[Homestar]

What if you're still in student status? (UNT/Little Rock, now Cannon)

I thought that officers in student status received a narrative-only PRF.

[Dupe]

I thought that officers in student status received a narrative-only PRF.

True...but somebody must do the narrating.

[StoleIt]

Where can I find the percentages of DP vs P for Captain?

Curious...

[Ahab]

Where can I find the percentages of DP vs P for Captain?

Curious...

You can deduce the allocation percentages Air Force wide with these data (pilots):

Here's the stats from AFPC on FY11 LAF Majors board.

1002 Pilots up for board - 803 DP vs 199 P

Roughly 4/5 got a DP

You can figure the numbers for shoe clerks with the whole data set if you like.

Questions I can't answer:

Do DP allocation percentages vary Wing to Wing? If so, how many does my Wing get this year for my board?

[C17Driver]

Where can I find the percentages of DP vs P for Captain?

Curious...

It's on the AFPC website as well as in the PSDM. DP to 80%.