Promotion and PRF Information

[Homestar]

So what's with the promotion increment for the 03 LAF Major board? 113 out of 2,200+ pin on 1 December. Does it have something to do with the MilPDS Armageddon that's coming next month?

[Butters]

So what's with the promotion increment for the 03 LAF Major board? 113 out of 2,200+ pin on 1 December. Does it have something to do with the MilPDS Armageddon that's coming next month?

I think it mostly has to do with the fact that 03 was 9 years ago and everyone from that board has already pinned on.

[Homestar]

I think it mostly has to do with the fact that 03 was 9 years ago and everyone from that board has already pinned on.

Okay then, let me clarify--the 2003 year group that met the 2011 board...

[ThreeHoler]

So what's with the promotion increment for the 03 LAF Major board? 113 out of 2,200+ pin on 1 December. Does it have something to do with the MilPDS Armageddon that's coming next month?

DOPMA.

[Ravens52]

A squadron commander (I use that term loosely--more like a manager) I had a couple years back very cryptically told me that the date you accomplish your AAD can be as important as actually having it done. I remember thinking "WTF?" but it turns out he was spot on.

Fat chicks

[Danger41]

I heard this brought up today by some of the younger guys that DG from your commissioning source is looked at. Any veracity to that/what impact will that have?

[Dupe]

I heard this brought up today by some of the younger guys that DG from your commissioning source is looked at. Any veracity to that/what impact will that have?

True statement.

The Air Force promotes from the entire pool of officers, vice setting a percentage rate for each career field. Strats and achievements that put you above officers from all careers are highly-valued by the promotion board (i.e...DG from your commissioning source or PME), as its difficult to compare certain achievements across different careers. How easy is it to compare a fighter IP to a Sierra-Hotel Big Safari program manager? That said, commissioning-source DG is looked at less than PME DG for O-4.

[HU&W]

I heard this brought up today by some of the younger guys that DG from your commissioning source is looked at. Any veracity to that/what impact will that have?

DG from commissioning source goes on your RIP. It only holds as much weight as the person reading your RIP gives it.

[Learjetter]

I heard this brought up today by some of the younger guys that DG from your commissioning source is looked at. Any veracity to that/what impact will that have?

It matters. It's a good thing to have on record--IF PROMOTION IS IMPORTANT TO YOU.

Most senior raters do not read your record. Normally, the sq/Cc edits the PRF authored by the raters. Then all the sq/CCs sit with the GP/CC and rack n stack from among the sqdns. Then the senior rater racks n stacks from among the groups.

the senior rater does read the PRF, and (normally) the exec shop has built a 1-n spreadsheet of all the folks meeting the board.

The spreadsheets I've seen in the past had rows of names, and columns with titles like: DG?, PME?, In-Res?, CGOQ?, CGOY?, bac+?, AAD?, major awards?, PCS medals? AMs?, DFC?, PT score?, Combat hours? #1/xx strats? #2/xx strats? deployments? Command? Major achievement? Push note? Etc. Everytime the exec or CC finds one of those things in your record, you get an "x" in the column. Theoretically, the more"Xs" a dude has in the columns, the higher he's ranked.

Sometimes, they look at negatives: quality force items like : no strat?, referral? DUI?, ART15?, no medal?, weak push?, no push? Q-3?, no PME?, no AAD?, UIF?, Pt fails?, etc. then anyone who has one of these is out of the running for DP...

Deciding who gets a DNP is easy. Deciding who gets a P is equally easy (anyone that doesn't get a DP or a DNP). Deciding which officers in a wing get DPs is very difficult.

Anytime you're ranked/documented ahead of your peers, it's a plus., because it makes stratification easier....because someone stratified you higher in the past. This can be good, or bad, depending on your POV.

[pcola]

I heard this brought up today by some of the younger guys that DG from your commissioning source is looked at. Any veracity to that/what impact will that have?

Probably minimal impact on its own, but can help show a trend if you have other DGs and incorporate them all into your PRF. Ie "3X DG! ROTC, UPT, SOS...excelled at every level......" You get the point.

[Karl Hungus]

The Air Force promotes from the entire pool of officers, vice setting a percentage rate for each career field. Strats and achievements that put you above officers from all careers are highly-valued by the promotion board (i.e...DG from your commissioning source or PME), as its difficult to compare certain achievements across different careers. How easy is it to compare a fighter IP to a Sierra-Hotel Big Safari program manager? That said, commissioning-source DG is looked at less than PME DG for O-4.

This is exactly why we need to separate rated and non-rated promotions at the major's board, as well as mask stupid stuff (AAD) on the SURF until after you've pinned on O-4. It's this type of thinking (how do I compare apples and oranges?) that leads to new LTs worrying about their masters over their primary duty.

[abmwaldo]

General Welsh spoke at WEPTAC this week and the last question was the status of Masters being masked on PRFs. His response was that in 3-6 months we should expect to see specific guidance on promotions. He also alluded to having reviewed the last round of O-7 PRFs and the average was 3 masters degrees which he called "stupid."

"If you have extra time I want you to spend that with family and I want the most important factor in promotion being job performance."

Sir your 6 month clock is ticking.

[ThreeHoler]

General Welsh spoke at WEPTAC this week and the last question was the status of Masters being masked on PRFs. His response was that in 3-6 months we should expect to see specific guidance on promotions. He also alluded to having reviewed the last round of O-7 PRFs and the average was 3 masters degrees which he called "stupid."

"If you have extra time I want you to spend that with family and I want the most important factor in promotion being job performance."

Sir your 6 month clock is ticking.

There's a new OPR/EPR reg out. Haven't read it yet, but I think my Wg has a brief on it in the next week or so.

[Toro]

There's a new OPR/EPR reg out. Haven't read it yet, but I think my Wg has a brief on it in the next week or so.

It's not a new reg, it's the revision to AFI 36-2406. It doesn't deal with PRFs at all, and most of the changes are transparent for folks on this board.

[Smokin]

Masking the masters for promotion boards is great, but we've been through this cycle before. The story ends with good dudes getting screwed because they trusted big blue to not change its mind a year prior to their board meeting. I think it would take something drastic, like stopping TA, to make it stick.

[Champ Kind]

I think it would take something drastic, like stopping TA, to make it stick.

This.

But then how could upper mgmt brag that we are the "most educated" force?

[Dupe]

This is exactly why we need to separate rated and non-rated promotions at the major's board, as well as mask stupid stuff (AAD) on the SURF until after you've pinned on O-4. It's this type of thinking (how do I compare apples and oranges?) that leads to new LTs worrying about their masters over their primary duty.

I agree. As with any successful threat reaction, knowing how the threat works will greatly improve your chances of survival. Young guys should know the basics of how our promotion system works (or doesn't work).

[Karl Hungus]

Masking the masters for promotion boards is great, but we've been through this cycle before. The story ends with good dudes getting screwed because they trusted big blue to not change its mind a year prior to their board meeting. I think it would take something drastic, like stopping TA, to make it stick.

TA's days are numbered. Only a matter of time.

[billy pilgrim]

TA's days are numbered. Only a matter of time.

No better way to prove your loyal to big blue than to get an AAD on your own dime. Think of it more as an application fee for the Lt. Col. Major, Captian boards.

[ThreeHoler]

No better way to prove your loyal to big blue than to get an AAD on your own dime. Think of it more as an application fee for the Lt. Col. Major, Captian boards.

Why pay anything when the AU masters degree is free?

[xaarman]

Eligibility -Military - Active Duty USAF O-3s who: 1) Have 6 years TAFCS or more, 2) Completed SOS, 3) Do not have a master’s degree.

https://www.au.af.mil/au/dlmasters.asp

As said above, Masters progress is a strat'able item for the Captains board.

[nsplayr]

Why pay anything when the AU masters degree is free?

Because its dangerous to wait until your 6 years in and have done nothing MA-wise in order to qualify. Most of your peers will have been DG (done & graduated) from their box checking program of choice by that point. At least based on the dudes I know.

[ThreeHoler]

https://www.au.af.mil/au/dlmasters.asp

As said above, Masters progress is a strat'able item for the Captains board.

As said before: if you need a BAC+ or MAS to make O-3, you're doing it wrong in the first place.

Because its dangerous to wait until your 6 years in and have done nothing MA-wise in order to qualify. Most of your peers will have been DG (done & graduated) from their box checking program of choice by that point. At least based on the dudes I know.

Shut the fuck up Nav. "Leadership and performance in primary job duty." Just ask the pilots I know who are doing great on their AAD but sucking at their primary job how that BAC+/MAS is working out for them. Hint: they're at the bottom of the stack.

Perhaps it is a fluke, but from my direct experience writing on people...and talking to Wg/Gp leadership (not their execs)...the AAD only counts if you're already doing your primary job well.

[nsplayr]

Shut the fuck up Nav.

It's sage advice from my perspective man...when everyone is doing X to compete on top of being legit at their primary duties it perhaps is wise to also look into X before you've been for 6 years. Doesn't come before being good at primary duties and I'm on board with wishing the requirement didn't exist or would get significantly de-emphasized, but just callin' it like it is at least in my own little piece of the AF.

I've yet to talk to one leader (plenty of managers too) from FLT/CC up to MAJCOM/CC that doesn't recognize the reality of how this whole thing works and is advising anything other than "get PME/AAD done." And this is from guys I respect, who are awesome aviators and officers, and who are looking out for the best interests of their people.

Tell me to fuck off all you want, the (unfortunate) truth don't lie and the truth is that even young dudes apparently need to worry about this shit if they wanna get to where they wanna go.

All the SH guys I know who are getting fast-tracked for leadership/WIC/special programs/etc. are both awesome aviators and have all their queep in line and on schedule. It's not rocket-surgery and AMU and Maxwell aren't exactly Harvard either.

Edited January 20, 2013 by nsplayr

[slackline]

Ok, another possible stupid question. The whole school "dream sheet" is coming up in the next couple of months, and I had a question on the ADSC that comes with it. I never expected to get a school slot (no BA+ or Masters at the board or after, and I don't walk on water) so I never got smart on everything that comes with it. Does the ADSC come with filling out the 3849, or only when picked up for a school.

Also, for selects, is there a typical timeframe that you will go to school? For example, with assignments lining up right, will a select go first look, or later?

Sorry, like I said, never expected the school slot, so I'm still foggy on the details. I'd ask someone locally, but I'm at a GSU. I'm the only USAF guy around for 11 hours...