Promotion and PRF Information

[SurelySerious]

You guys

Nice. Suppose you mean pilots, the root of all of the DoD's problems.

[disgruntledemployee]

Hey, I love this game. You know, the one where the in depth expert pulls back the curtain to the sausage factory. Or does he?

So, JCS is number one (already knew that). And if a dude is in that job, they are considered cream o' the crop. Best of the best. Top shelf. Solid gold. The go to guy. He is automatically better than anyone else, be it making coffee or making slides. He must be promoted.

So, how did he get there? Some sort of central selection board that looks at everyones record like a promotion board? The good ol boys inside track BNR? AMS Robot looking for exec job volunteers? Or the DT Vector team? Who really picks the people to go to those top joint jobs and thus seal their track to command/sr leadership?

We've seen it. New dude coming to the unit. Oh, he just did joint staff, he's shit hot. Need to make sure he gets the top shit. All before the dude ever walks in the door. Some are good dudes, and some are gigantic douches.

Zoooooooom shhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh BANG!

Out

Edited July 5, 2013 by disgruntledemployee

[sqwatch]

You guys and your stupid ass infatuation with the number 69. F*ing retards.

Head, box, rape songs, call signs, 69 and sts. Moronic, with a shelf life. Say goodbye to this dumb ass culture. Bitch all you want, we won't miss it.

[Cap-10]

Head, box, rape songs, call signs, 69 and sts. Moronic, with a shelf life. Say goodbye to this dumb ass culture. Bitch all you want, we won't miss it.

This speaks volumes about you...

Not sure where the senior leaders got the idea that dirty songs and call signs aren't really tradition, but I've recently spent some time with the likes of MOH recipient, Col. Bud Day, Col. Bob Pardo and several other Vietnam Vets including Col Ken Cordier who was a POW for over 7 tears.

If you think "I used to work in Chicago" or Piano in a Whorehouse" are bad, I've witnessed these guys sing songs that make those look like nursery rhymes. When I asked them where they leaned them, they said the senoir squadron guys who saw time in Korea.

You can call it what you want, but I know you will never squash call signs, 69, etc...we won't let it!

CMH,

Cap-10

[Tonka]

You guys and your stupid ass infatuation with the number 69. F*ing retards.

Must be something that is taught in IDE to the 1%...

[AnimalMother]

. Many on this forum can't grasp the concept of not promoting everyone, using 1 to n strats and the AF not valuing people who don't give a shit. .

I would have said just the opposite. Most guys I talk with want to know why Forrest Gump gets the number 1 or 2 strat, while the sharp dude with all the boxes checked gets a P. I absolutely love the idea of not promoting everyone, I think we should do more of it, but we should also consider an approach that evaluates performance and potential more thoroughly than a 60s glance and a "oh this cc wants this guy to go to joint staff, cool." And, if we're really being honest with ourselves here, who is really better for our organization, a guy who "doesn't give a shit," calls a spade a spade, and still excels at his primary job, or a guy whose concern for his own career is so acute that he turns into a dickless automaton? I never understood why we preach service before self, but spend so much time worrying about ourselves. Why the duality here?

One thing is clear to me however, we (cgos and young fgos) have a very different opinion on what is happening in our Air Force than you guys do. And, maybe we don't have the "bigger picture," but that doesn't summarily invalidate the picture that we do have, nor does it automatically validate yours. I honestly hope that we can find some common ground, sooner rather than later, but I see our window of opportunity closing rapidly. Will the Air Force survive? Absolutely, but maybe not in the capacity that is truly best for our nation. Will anyone care? Maybe a select few of the anointed ones will, but they won't dare bite the hand that feeds, and most of us disposables will be long gone.

[moosepileit]

Navs riding the staffs are the newest assigned BODN trolls, it seems.

[pawnman]

I'd think our senior leaders would be more ashamed of our inability to procure weapon systems, our incredibly inefficient mobility systems, and our overall lack of readiness as a military service rather than call signs or sts. I guess I'll be more of a MAJCOM staff push guy due to my lack of perspective.

Well, it doesn't cost anything to bitch about callsigns, head/box, or 69.

[Murph]

This says volume about this jackass. Never trust a person who can't laugh at 69.

I laughed at that number... when I was 16.

[Chuck17]

On 7/4/2013 at 7:24 PM, Liquid said:

Slander, same result, fewer hurt feelings. CCs and raters should give honest feedback. They don't because people are too sensitive. They get butt hurt and quit. Many on this forum can't grasp the concept of not promoting everyone, using 1 to n strats and the AF not valuing people who don't give a shit.

Holy buckets, what corner of the AF did you grow up in? Maybe this is part of the problem... dudes cant get honest feedback because this kinda thinking has led to everyone thinking they're a shit-hot rocket ace and not knowing the majority of the squadron thinks they're functionally retarded when it comes to doing the J-O-B. Perhaps, if we provided a little more honest feedback in a manner in which it STUCK (Not some BS desk drawer feedback session), we would help weed the garden a bit. Maybe we wouldn't HAVE to promote 90% of dudes to Major - are you kidding me! 90%!? Hell 10% of the Captains I know don't deserve to be captains. We called them "double Lieutenants" when they got promoted in mass in 2009/10. And 90% of them will make Major? WHY? Because they all think they're gonna be CoS of the USAF, because they can't get honest feedback and their paperwork says "My #1/200 glasslicking booger-eaters; IDE ASAP, Astronaut Corps a must--this guy is NOT a dipshit"

But no.... we can't. We have to "keep them in" despite the guys gettin' it done wanting them out. Can't have anyone get their feelings hurt. Kinda like...

On 7/4/2013 at 10:19 PM, Liquid said:

Head, box, rape songs, call signs, 69 and sts. Moronic, with a shelf life. Say goodbye to this dumb ass culture. Bitch all you want, we won't miss it.

Ugh. How is the view from that high horse? Gotta be better than down here.

I never understood the obsession that we have with stuff like this. Is it envy? Is someone having fun, enjoying their job, their "culture" as you say soooo foreign and evil that it must be outlawed? If (fighter) pilots were singing songs about railing dudes would it be somehow less taboo? I wonder if the Army has the kinda stigma amongst the non-operators that we have in the AF? Do all of their support-non-kill dudes think all the Rangers and SF and paratroopers are all out of touch, require a cultural change because killing people is morally questionable, and glorifying it through culture somehow promotes that culture and causes them to be murderers and rapists, etc? I don't sing, but I watch porn and read playboy - I am just unprofessional if I talk about it in the bar? Maybe I just like naked women...

Dudes go out and deal death to our enemies everyday, putting their asses on the line, and people sit back in their office and preach on the morality of their culture, their traditions. BALLSY, no points for SA though.

I'm sorry we are all delicate flowers who can't take feedback. Maybe that's something else we need to start in the flying community - have our own promotion boards so dudes can tell it like it is on performance reports while the rest of the force gives each other the virtual ass-pat until we get our asses handed to us by some other country in a no-shit shooting war...

Chuck

Edited April 6 by Chuck17

[Champ Kind]

^ Fucking. This.

Chuck, once again, you nailed it. I hope you stick around long enough and find yourself in a position to cause some change.

That was one of the best suggestions I've heard with regard to the eval system.

The AF needs you.

[Rusty Pipes]

Navs riding the staffs are the newest assigned BODN trolls, it seems.

I think you might be giving these ass hats too much credit by suggesting they are Navs.

As far as strats go and getting perspective from folks who have sat on boards (O-4/O-5), I was talking to an O-6 in my office who is a contracting officer and that perspective was horrifying! It wasn't the board itself, it was the cluelessness of some who sit on these boards (including this particular O-6). She said all #1 strats are the same and that was what she was looking for. I asked her if the #1 CGO in an Operations Group was the same as the #1 CGO in a MX group... she said yes (even though an OG at some bases has 300+ CGOs and the same MX Gp at the same base probably has 15-20 CGOs). I asked her if the #1 FGO at Nellis, Charleston or Shaw was the same as the #1 FGO at Warner Robbins... she said absolutely and was quite adamant about it. She then asked me why it should make a difference and asked me if I was saying that F-22 pilots are any better than UAV pilots? "A pilot is a pilot... what is the difference?" Ummmm... I happened to be sitting at my desk and pulled up the AF webpage to the images section. She could not identify an F-22, F-35, C-17 or a C-5... she is an O-6 Group Commander level officer and went 0-4 in identifying these jets, yet she is the one deciding who makes the next grade! I guess it is this scary promotion system that lets people like her continue up the chain, but I can honestly say that easily on a daily basis I would see some of the things she would do and say to myself, "How the hell did she ever make O-6?!?" The really scary part is that she got "promoted" to a higher job and her replacement O-6 is just as clueless!

[Chuck17]

Too bad we can't have this so easy.

We don't want things to change that drastically, or we'd end up with the AF's greatest chowhall commander getting put in charge of flying wings... if there was a way to up the standard, I'd be all for it. Sadly, that has never been the case, so we watch as the we get older and the bar gets lower... and lower...

Chuck

[General Chang]

Vetter, Chuck17, ChampKind, Animal, and all of you other disturbed officers out there,

Your callousness, bitterness, perversion, and outright disgusting behavior turns my stomach. YOURS are the types of attitudes that General Welsh is trying to weed out of the Air Force. He will be successful, and all of the sexist children in the Air Force will quickly find themselves out of a job (at least in uniform). You guys talk about core values in other threads?? Look at the filth you are posting! I am begging you, please reevaluate your own character before subjecting your squadron-mates to this disgusting behavior, because there will be consequences in the not-too-distant future.

You know, I often think to myself, "If my daughter wants to join the service, will I be 100% behind her when the time comes?" Reading this thread and trash that "adults in charge" are posting here gives me great pause when answering that question...

How can you identify sexual discrimination in your subordinates when you are actively practicing that type of behavior in your mind? Please meditate on & pray about what I've said here.

[Rusty Pipes]

Vetter, Chuck17, ChampKind, Animal, and all of you other disturbed officers out there,

Your callousness, bitterness, perversion, and outright disgusting behavior turns my stomach. YOURS are the types of attitudes that General Welsh is trying to weed out of the Air Force. He will be successful, and all of the sexist children in the Air Force will quickly find themselves out of a job (at least in uniform). You guys talk about core values in other threads?? Look at the filth you are posting! I am begging you, please reevaluate your own character before subjecting your squadron-mates to this disgusting behavior, because there will be consequences in the not-too-distant future.

You know, I often think to myself, "If my daughter wants to join the service, will I be 100% behind her when the time comes?" Reading this thread and trash that "adults in charge" are posting here gives me great pause when answering that question...

How can you identify sexual discrimination in your subordinates when you are actively practicing that type of behavior in your mind? Please meditate on & pray about what I've said here.

I hope this is a joke... and my sarcasm detector is inop after drinking all week!

[General Chang]

No, Rusty, it's not a joke, and you should be bothered by these guys too. You have posted some substantive stuff on these threads, but what these guys are putting out here for all the world to see is a sexist attitude that has no place in the Air Force.

[SurelySerious]

Vetter, Chuck17, ChampKind, Animal, and all of you other disturbed officers out there,

Your callousness, bitterness, perversion, and outright disgusting behavior turns my stomach. YOURS are the types of attitudes that General Welsh is trying to weed out of the Air Force. He will be successful, and all of the sexist children in the Air Force will quickly find themselves out of a job (at least in uniform). You guys talk about core values in other threads?? Look at the filth you are posting! I am begging you, please reevaluate your own character before subjecting your squadron-mates to this disgusting behavior, because there will be consequences in the not-too-distant future.

You know, I often think to myself, "If my daughter wants to join the service, will I be 100% behind her when the time comes?" Reading this thread and trash that "adults in charge" are posting here gives me great pause when answering that question...

How can you identify sexual discrimination in your subordinates when you are actively practicing that type of behavior in your mind? Please meditate on & pray about what I've said here.

WTF. Good thing there aren't any female fighter pilots who have call signs, sing songs, use 69, use sts, and say cranium.

[sputnik]

... the types of attitudes that General Welsh is trying to weed out of the Air Force

Awesome idea. Then we can start losing wars.

[moosepileit]

Two trolls in one thread? GC- your accusation is false. But, to make yourself feel better-

Print Screen, staple to your forehead. Light said sheet on fire and go running down some halls of "your" ring to get noticed.

[Karl Hungus]

Go get your trophy somewhere else, we have wars to fight and not everyone gets promoted.

You and "General" Chang keep saying this stuff... if we're so "bloated and overmanned" and you don't want us, why isn't Palace Chase a realistic option for pilots with more than a year or so left on their ADSCs?

[Wing Sweep]

Trolls,

99.69% of BODN members will not be politically correct here or act like we do at work, where everything we do or say has to be measured against the potential response of some shoeclerk MEO bitch that gets her feelings hurt twice a day and thrice on her period. We say "so to speak" as a jab at said shoeclerk MEO bitch that we all hate; we like to say 69 (or 6 to 9) because it reminds us of how awesome it is to 69 a chick; we sing songs about killing our enemies because we are proud make our country safer and killing those haji mother f'ers is usually the most efficient way to accomplish that; we tell stories about our drunken escapades because there are (many) times we get drunk and live to tell about it the next day; we talk about whores because at some point in our career we have seen our bros hooking up with said whores and then seen the look on their faces after their visit to the flight doc where their dick received the rotor rooter treatment; we sing songs about certain individuals such as Mr. O'Leary, Ms. Adeline Schmitt, the S & M man, our hooker moms, pimp fathers, whore sisters, bros, sons, etc. because we choose to. It's a personal choice. You, nor the CSAF, nor anyone else can force us to think a certain way. The one thing you and everyone else at the Puzzle can do is lead by example. Stop by telling us how we are demented, rapist, immoral individuals, and threatening us with "you will be weeded out." We are not the bad guys, and we are all on the same team, remember? The good 'ole US of A.

Most of us will choose not to have our testicles surgically removed somewhere between O-4 and O-5. We will keep our warrior ethos whether you like it or not and we will talk about the aformentioned things whether you like it or not (and these two things are not necessarily related). I hope there are enough of us left in the officer corps that can and will make this Air Force a warrior minded, mission focused entity. If we can't, we will at least try. If we cannot because the machine is too big (sts), then we will move on to a civilian life where we can succeed in the private sector doing something else (hopefully related to flying).

As a previous poster eluded to, morality at the personal level can never be instituted wholesale. It is a personal decision and that's where it starts and ends. I have learned this as an O-3 Flt/CC in dealing with my subordinates, hopefully you too will learn this someday. I don't know or care who you are, who you work for, or why you have decided to troll on BODN. If someone at the Puzzle put you up to this to get a pulse on the the lower officer echelons, I suggest you actually listen to the heartbeat and stop trying to insert a heart pacemaker.

Until the next time, here's to Meg...

Edited July 5, 2013 by g2s

[Vetter]

LOL.

[Vetter]

Does anyone know who these guys actually are? PM me.

Edited July 5, 2013 by Vetter

[AnimalMother]

Vetter, Chuck17, ChampKind, Animal, and all of you other disturbed officers out there,

Your callousness, bitterness, perversion, and outright disgusting behavior turns my stomach. YOURS are the types of attitudes that General Welsh is trying to weed out of the Air Force. He will be successful, and all of the sexist children in the Air Force will quickly find themselves out of a job (at least in uniform). You guys talk about core values in other threads?? Look at the filth you are posting! I am begging you, please reevaluate your own character before subjecting your squadron-mates to this disgusting behavior, because there will be consequences in the not-too-distant future.

You know, I often think to myself, "If my daughter wants to join the service, will I be 100% behind her when the time comes?" Reading this thread and trash that "adults in charge" are posting here gives me great pause when answering that question...

How can you identify sexual discrimination in your subordinates when you are actively practicing that type of behavior in your mind? Please meditate on & pray about what I've said here.

Holy testicles batman.

Let's cut the bullshit then. We have some fundamental disagreements, no big deal. But good lord, sack the ###### up and put your money where your mouth is. You want us out? Deal. I will be much obliged to you if you would sign my waiver personally. You make it happen on your end, and you'll have my separation papers tomorrow. But don't sit here and vilify the people who put up the ######ing numbers that got you promoted in the first place and then string them along.

As for the sexual assault witchhunt, if you think it starts with pictures and songs, I do feel sorry for you. This is a leadership issue. 1. Leaders need to step up and foster an environment in which this shit is handled appropriately. And, I can promise you that such is not the case, despite your boisterous but effectually flacid efforts. 2. Leaders need to stop deviant sexual behavior themselves if they want subordinates to follow, something about setting the example. 3. Leaders need to devote themselves to understanding the nature of this problem. Have you read the annual SAPR report and internalized key statistics from 2006-2012? Because I sure as shit did. Have you given any critical thought to how you, as a leader, can address these problems starting with the most statistically vulnerable times and situations? Because I sure as shit have. Have you discovered that the vast majority of sexual assaults occur in the Army, perpetrated by a senior male NCO against a junior enlisted female (most often between the hours of 6pm Friday and 6am Monday. Contrast this with deployed statistics which show little regard to days the week)? Have you read the Gallup poll (2010 i think but i forget off the top my head) of victims asking them which action they felt would be most effective at mitigating sexual assault? Overwhelmingly, they responded that a change in culture would be most effective. Oh wait, no they didn't, leadership enforcing standards, protecting victims, and prosecuting perpetrators was what they thought would be most effective. And by prosecuting, I mean following the law, as it was intended. You don't have the right to strip someone of their rights simply due to an accusation of sexual assault, nor does congress get to throw it's political muscle into the discussion to make itself feel better. But, that's a whole different issue So, How about for now ill just go learn up myself with that fantastic new CBT that you all feel is a suitable substitute for substantive leadership and try as hard as I can to resist the urge to sexually assault the next woman I see (that's sarcasm by the way, no need to actually send the FBI pre crime unit after me please). In the meantime, myself and several others on here are eagerly awaiting your separation approval letter via PM. Let's just leave it at that shall we?

[Guest ThatGuy]

Trying to help get the thread back on topic. So will we see the promotion rate to major decrease in 2014 or 2015? I am a 2005 graduate and I was just wondering. Or did I miss my board already...oh snap..just joking.