Promotion and PRF Information

[Guest ThatGuy]

Slick, you are a piece of work. I'm sure the airmen and officers you supervise are well aware.

I've learned a great deal from this forum, my OG/CC's, and WG/CC. I say that because I don't want my enlisted or officers to get passed over. But everyone controls their own destiny in the Air Force somewhat. I tell them from day one you have to do this to go to SOS in residence. We have SOS boards at my base to determine who will go and who won't. If you fail a fitness test or have a UIF, don't expect to go in residence. My subordinates becoming great mentors, leaders, and supervisors start and ends with me.

A lot of the things Liquid was saying resonates pretty well with me.

Edited August 30, 2013 by slick999

[17D_guy]

We have SOS boards at my base to determine who will go and who won't. If you fail a fitness test or have a UIF, don't expect to go in residence.

1 mistake/unlucky Air Force huh? We have leaders afraid to stand on their own and make a tough call without consulting leadership, and this nonsense is only reinforcing their mentality. Leadership by excel.

[pawnman]

If you throttled back, you may make an impact. Otherwise, you're a guy in a blue suit crashing through walls.

The in-res boarding of SOS slots is asinine. I know more than one dude who busted a pt test and used it as motivation to change their lives, mentally and physically, but if they were at your base they may as well go out and kill themselves because their career is essentially over. That's wrong. If you think that is leadership or that it is a good idea, I got news for you - if you keep that up, eventually a real leader is going to slit your throat and make sure you don't get the opportunities you need to continue advancement.

Chuck

Assuming there are any real leaders left by then.

[backseatdriver]

Ugh. This used to be a really beneficial thread. Can we delete the last two pages and gen up some more discussion with Liquid?

[theat6bisasham]

1 mistake/unlucky Air Force huh? We have leaders afraid to stand on their own and make a tough call without consulting leadership, and this nonsense is only reinforcing their mentality. Leadership by excel.

PT tests have become the new 'nuke' world - 100% is the only standard, you either pass or fail, but there is no forgiveness for making a mistake. Don't dare get sick/hurt/lose focus.

[Azimuth]

PT tests have become the new 'nuke' world - 100% is the only standard, you either pass or fail, but there is no forgiveness for making a mistake. Don't dare get sick/hurt/lose focus.

That's not even 100% true at my wing. Strats can be handed out depending on how well you scored on the PT test.

[Karl Hungus]

Huh. I listened to the CSAF himself last week say that the fact that senior raters are considering masters degrees for the major's board is "insane." He went on to say that a masters degree should only be required for O-6.

So where's the official guidance on this? Where's the "vector" we were promised, oh, 9 months ago? C'mon Gen Welsh... this service desperately needs you to make these simple, easy fixes, and not just be a guy who gave a great speech at USAFA this one time.

[xaarman]

edit out

Edited August 30, 2013 by xaarman

[Jaded]

Slick, I hope you get RIF'd.

[xaarman]

Ok I'll repost it. Currently at SOS, briefed by the AU/CC 3 star... he gave us a preview and told us it's coming. The whole system is changing, not simply a masking of whatever, but from my memory:

1) SOS being shortened to 5 weeks because of the 100% requirement

2) SOS Correspondence eligibility potentially moving until after in residence criteria has passed (have heard this one for a while)

3) Promotion boards will require a certain amount of credits instead of mandatory PME completion. PME in res will fulfill required credits for that perspective board, however if you got a Masters in say, International Security Studies, and a PME class is International Security, you will get PME credit hours for taking that Masters class

4) He said a lot of the senior leaders think the AAD should be masked until the O-6 board, however gave no indication on how Gen Welsh thought about that or what direction they were going, but hinted at changes for it.

That's all I can remember right now...

Edited August 31, 2013 by xaarman

[Champ Kind]

Doesn't seem all that sweeping of a change...

[scudrunner12]

1) SOS being shortened to 5 weeks because of the 100% requirement

Maybe not a sweeping change, but I'll take it...

[ak47]

I find it interesting that after this Wg/CC, whom you hold in such incredibly high regard, said this on Wednesday:

[i do] not believe in the one mistake Air Force mentality.

He said it IS, however, a one crime Air Force (I'll agree...it's self elimination like he said about not getting your AAD or doing PME DL). Then you went off the reservation with this?

I could understand if he got arrested once, but twice is my limitation.

Your leniency is eye watering, but some future Airman in your charge better watch himself after his first arrest. You will go far telling only the "good" half of the story. It keeps leadership happy with you and will get you promoted.

Edited August 31, 2013 by ak47

[GearMonkey]

1) SOS being shortened to 5 weeks because of the 100% requirement

Nice. From 5 weeks to 8 and back to 5 in the span of 3 years.

If only there had been an online group of current and former USAF officers who could have predicted that the 8 week course would be an almost total waste of time and resources. The best part is that the same three year groups got screwed with the excessively long versions of both ASBC and SOS. Great job Air Force.

Edited August 31, 2013 by GearMonkey

[guineapigfury]

Nice. From 5 weeks to 8 and back to 5 in the span of 3 years.

The goal should be 3 weeks so that aircrew don't automatically go noncurrent.

[theat6bisasham]

Guess they RIF'd you or you've been arrested a few times. Stop drinking the Hateraid.

Everyone stop feeding the shoe clerk.....my god I can't read his sh*t anymore. Everything that is wrong with big blue is detailed in every damn thought he expresses.

And what kind of moron uses absolutes like that - 1 arrest is fine, but 2 is crossing the line? So 1 murder is cool, but add in shoplifting and suddenly you are 'toxic'? You baboon! You couldn't lead a ESSS down the hall without intervention.....get a clue!

[Seriously]

My CC does not believe in the one mistake Air Force mentality and neither do I. I told someone who showed up with a blemish that I didn't want to know what happened. New base, equates to a brand new start in my eyes. Additionally, I told the individual you have to show leadership you have moved beyond whatever happened and continue to strive as an officer and leader. If you become a "toxic" individual after your ordeal and unreliable, you can expect leadership to maintain a negative mindset about you.

I had to tell someone months ago that SOS may not be in their future. When supervisors annotate something in an OPR and a board or the OG/CC sees those remarks it's an easy kill for not going in residence. I told the individual you have to be "seen" and "heard" in this squadron and exceed the standard in the CC's viewpoint so he goes to bat for you.

At SOS, my class did a mock PRF. One of the groups grading the PRF did not see a person had been arrested twice so they scored his package pretty high. I pointed out their error. I had a reservist ask how long I'm going to hold the arrests against the officer? I could only respond that the other officers have been doing what's right and deserve to be promoted. I could understand if he got arrested once, but twice is my limitation. Now look at how much trouble you can get into while in the Army and still get promoted. I'm an Army brat and I've seen it first hand. Different services...different personnel.

Slick, dude, you have got to listen to the guys on this message board. We don't know you. The only motivation for everyone saying these things is our interest in making a better Air Force. You need to stop right now and recognize that everything you've said is 100% wrong. The mentality you're espousing is what's wrong with the Air Force, and it's got to stop. I won't rehash the points that have already been made, but suffice to say, everyone here is giving you honest to God feedback. Take it to heart.

Everything you've spoken of is just plain lazy leadership. Leadership is a messy gray area. Nothing is black and white. Trying to deal in absolutes is why advanced academic degrees are required to make Major. It's why PT test scores actually mean something to some people. It's why OPRs are chock full of numbers instead of credible assessments of leadership potential. Change you course, man. Don't be a lazy leader.

If you're a wing exec, you very well may be on your way to a leadership position yourself. You've gotten through the system so far because you've blended in and followed the examples of leadership given to you (for better or worse). If you make it to a command position, take the opportunity to change what the Air Force has begun.

Edited August 31, 2013 by Seriously

[noodles]

Maybe not a sweeping change, but I'll take it...

Everyone please post all the stuff you heard when you were at SOS that never came true. Just a few years ago--ops guys who were IDE selects were probably not going to go because of operational requirements/365s/etc...but the promotion board would be told why you did not go in-res. This was (supposedly) going to happen to a lot of folks.

[HercDude]

4) He said a lot of the senior leaders think the AAD should be masked until the O-6 board, however gave no indication on how Gen Welsh thought about that or what direction they were going, but hinted at changes for it.

I was sitting 8 feet from Gen Welsh last month and he talked at length about how stupid practice bleeding was and how it made no sense at all to suggest an AAD should have anything to do with getting promoted to O-4 or O-5. His words were something along the line of "this is one of the dumbest things we do as a service." He then acknowledged that masking AAD for the O-4 & O-5 board won't fix the problem because senior raters will probably still use it as a discriminator. And that was it - din't really offer a solution, which I found odd seeing as he's the Chief and all.

[Fifty-six & Two]

I was sitting 8 feet from Gen Welsh last month and he talked at length about how stupid practice bleeding was and how it made no sense at all to suggest an AAD should have anything to do with getting promoted to O-4 or O-5. His words were something along the line of "this is one of the dumbest things we do as a service." He then acknowledged that masking AAD for the O-4 & O-5 board won't fix the problem because senior raters will probably still use it as a discriminator. And that was it - din't really offer a solution, which I found odd seeing as he's the Chief and all.

When it was masked the first go around, were SRs using it as a discriminator?

[tunes]

Why take everything I say out of context? Enlisted and officers make mistakes in life. If someone got arrested because of public intoxication I'm not going to end a person's career. I don't have time to sit here and go over every scenario or arrest with you. It's a forum, get real.

yet by your own argument you say someone that hasnt been arrested shouldnt be punished over someone who has.....yet you also say 1 arrest is fine....so what is it boss?

[Jughead]

When it was masked the first go around, were SRs using it as a discriminator?

Yes

[Fly]

Everyone please post all the stuff you heard when you were at SOS that never came true. Just a few years ago--ops guys who were IDE selects were probably not going to go because of operational requirements/365s/etc...but the promotion board would be told why you did not go in-res. This was (supposedly) going to happen to a lot of folks.

That may not have materialized, but the new rumor is that only 1 IDE candidate in all of AMC got picked up for school this year...so much for the 15%... candidates getting to go in-residence is now a thing of the past.

[Fifty-six & Two]

That may not have materialized, but the new rumor is that only 1 IDE candidate in all of AMC got picked up for school this year...so much for the 15%... candidates getting to go in-residence is now a thing of the past.

Heard single digit across the entire AF.

[FUSEPLUG]

Heard single digit across the entire AF.

Good. Now perhaps certain people will start worrying about becoming competent in their AFSC instead of how they are going pepper-grind their way to that school slot.